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Old 10-18-2010, 06:56 AM   #127
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I know a number of people who wanted to join as a MAL just so they could join the vintage club.
Rick are you sure they can't join the VAC?

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Rick, you can also imagine MAL status for folks who full-time in their Airstreams. (Think of folks who currently belong to the Escapees just so that they have a voting residence, mail forwarding, and some other stuff.) In effect, they no longer have a geographic location, a physical home attached to a bit of real estate that resides in the realm of some unit or another. Lynn
Lynn, not getting your point.

What does their voting residence, passport, drivers license, registration or insurance say?

They have a geographic location don't they?


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Old 10-18-2010, 07:14 AM   #128
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Rick are you sure they can't join the VAC?
.
I think the present setup is that a non WBCCI member is basically a subscriber to the VAC newsletter. At one time there was an associate member category, but it was still basically a newsletter subscription. As a non wbcci member you could not , for example join with the club at the international or other non buddy rallies I don't think.
Tim or a current up to date officer needs to weigh in on this as I have been out of the VAC officer chain for a long time.

I suspect the VAC may actually have had a MAL president at one time, however if I am correct it was done out of ignorance of the MAL bylaws, or they were different in the late 90's. Not sure on this one, just a recollection.

A non member may belong to the WBCCI radio club but can not be an officer and the same restrictions I mentioned above apply.

I had not thought of the fulltimer thing Lynn brought up, but he has a good point. I have several non Airstream friends that use addresses in Livingston, TX through Escapees but really have no ties to the area. I know another that uses a FL address, but does not go there.
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Old 10-18-2010, 08:47 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
Lynn, not getting your point.

What does their voting residence, passport, drivers license, registration or insurance say?

They have a geographic location don't they? .
Nope, they have no stick home. Often they're "located" on all paperwork in Livingston, TX, which is the headquarters of the Escapees, but only a few of them live there. It has turned into several court cases because, even though they don't live there, they vote there and completely overwhelm the local voting population.

My only point is that if we have some of these types in our club, then they might be attracted by a non-locational MAL status. But I don't know that we have that many of them. (I know of only one couple, and they belong to a unit.)

In any event, I also believe that they should not be involved in decision making where units are involved.


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Old 10-18-2010, 12:56 PM   #130
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I am a MAL because I work every fri sat sun monday so there is no reason for me to join a unit since all unit activities are on a weekend. However, I do enjoy AS only parks and being part of the overall WBCCI concept. It makes no sense to me to join a unit in name only when I know I will not be able to contribute in any meaningful way. It would be nice to vote on a nationa level. zz
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Old 10-18-2010, 01:20 PM   #131
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And all units will eventually get around to expecting you to make it better by stepping forward and planning a rally or holding office and attending their functions. Frankly the unit news of many units is a list of attendees and the food consumed and the health and death notices, give or take. A MAL is at the International level and could enjoy region and International rallies, as well as unit activities if space is available and qualify for Airstream parks and other discounts. MALs tend not to fit a unit demographic for rallies and activities. They are wider in scope geographically and narrower in scope as to pitch in at the local events or hold unit office. However I do not see why they could not hold International office if elected. Sure they would not have put in their "due" with the march up but that also may be part of the rank and file system that leads to some disadvantages of its own making. Free elections sound fine to me. If the majority wants someone as an officer who are others to say they do not qualify?
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Old 10-18-2010, 01:47 PM   #132
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I think competitive elections, where multiple candidates run against each other based on combined knowledge, as demonstrated by academic training documented on a real resume or curriculum vita, and proven ability to run a club successfully in terms of membership growth and financial solvency would be the ideal way to go within WBCCI at all levels. This has never happened in the past in WBCCI, but would be something to shoot for in the future. Having experience in running successful local, regional, or special event rallies would demonstrate experience and be a plus on the Resume.

In my experience, MAL's rarely try to take leadership roles, or gain leadership experience, as they are frequently just users of the resources and benefits available through the club. They usually just visit special event rallies, tag along on the caravans and use the cheaper Airstream only parks. In my experience. they are non-joiners or volunteers to do the grunt work, that is required to put on any function and therefore; should not be rewarded with election to office. Competitive elections, based on proven abilities, would eliminate them from consideration.
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Old 10-18-2010, 01:52 PM   #133
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Can you say the leadership has been that great with all their experience thus far??? A sense of entitlement and who are you develops and blackballing others because they are not deserving by their self standards crowds out efficiency. I think that is shortsighted. If the people want inexperienced...(and that being only WBCCI experience) why not? It also gives more strength to the, "We have always done it that way" arguments in making change. Inexperience just might be the right approach! Even a criminal can be president why does the WBCCI require what they do when it hasn't worked to membership's advantage anyway? It isn't as if a single individual can do much harm without the agreement of the rest of the IBT any way. The problem is they are groomed to be in agreement for years, that is their special experience. I agree a platform statement and running mates should exist. I was told as a member of a unit rather than a MAL I could vote, but vote for whom I said since there is no competition for offices, the elections are mostly mock, except to justify the travel expenses for "business," monkey business. It's all who you know and getting in line for that train...

I am wondering if there has been progress in establishing voting standards or if voting tabulation still varies by unit. http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...tml#post377099 I still like 1 member 1 vote best. I also think candidates should be allowed Blue beret space without charge and that all candidates must submit a platform statement and that unit instructions be fair and include all candidates and that the nominating committee no longer included their choice and only their choice as a recommendation to each unit.
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:26 PM   #134
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I also think it is imperative not to sweep glaring misconduct under the rug that past misdeeds in the application of voting procedures and grievance actions by prejudice should be redressed by the current IBT and an apology be issued to all members and especially Leo G. and that he be reinstated as punitive damages and for reparations by the current IBT. And I do believe that is "new" business to improve and protect all members of the WBCCI. Disposing of Leo has not "solved" the problem. What happened to Leo G. did not only happen to Leo but has happened to all of us as members of the WBCCI. It easily has and will translate to others. Member rights and judicial justice must be upheld. That is another thing our dues should pay for...
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:28 PM   #135
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If a platform statement means"This is what I want to do for the club" I am all for it.

Resumes should be greatly abbreviated. I want to know where the candidate wants to take the club.
I do not much care where the candidate went to school in 1960, how long he/she has been married or how many grandchildren he/she has.
It is quite likely that some one with limited experience with the WBCCI could do a better job than some we have had in the past. At least they haven't had time to develop the mindset
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:35 PM   #136
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I think the present setup is that a non WBCCI member is basically a subscriber to the VAC newsletter. At one time there was an associate member category, but it was still basically a newsletter subscription. As a non wbcci member you could not , for example join with the club at the international or other non buddy rallies I don't think.
Tim or a current up to date officer needs to weigh in on this as I have been out of the VAC officer chain for a long time.

I suspect the VAC may actually have had a MAL president at one time, however if I am correct it was done out of ignorance of the MAL bylaws, or they were different in the late 90's. Not sure on this one, just a recollection.
from Tim 3rd VP Vac

All correct except;

Associate members are still members because they are in WBCCI. So it is more than just a subscriber.

A subscriber is only that, they are not WBCCI members so they only get a newsletter.

-------

That sucks
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:51 PM   #137
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from Tim 3rd VP Vac

All correct except;

Associate members are still members because they are in WBCCI. So it is more than just a subscriber.

A subscriber is only that, they are not WBCCI members so they only get a newsletter.

-------

That sucks
To clarify further an associate member is one who owns an Airstream, (WBCCI Member) but it is not vintage.

Back to the main question. Can any one think of a reason a MAL should NOT be allowed to be an officer in an intra club like the VAC??
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:54 PM   #138
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However I do not see why they could not hold International office if elected. Sure they would not have put in their "due" with the march up but that also may be part of the rank and file system that leads to some disadvantages of its own making. Free elections sound fine to me. If the majority wants someone as an officer who are others to say they do not qualify?
Hi Carol, where you been?

How can someone hold office without a clue as to how the units and regions operate without holding office for some period of time.

I think there was a unit president that was voted on the board once.

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I also think it is imperative not to sweep glaring misconduct under the rug that past misdeeds in the application of voting procedures and grievance actions by prejudice should be redressed by the current IBT and an apology be issued to all members and especially Leo G. and that he be reinstated as punitive damages and for reparations by the current IBT.
Carol, res judicata.
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:55 PM   #139
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I think competitive elections, where multiple candidates run against each other based on combined knowledge, as demonstrated by academic training documented on a real resume or curriculum vita, and proven ability to run a club successfully in terms of membership growth and financial solvency would be the ideal way to go within WBCCI at all levels. This has never happened in the past in WBCCI, but would be something to shoot for in the future. Having experience in running successful local, regional, or special event rallies would demonstrate experience and be a plus on the Resume.

In my experience, MAL's rarely try to take leadership roles, or gain leadership experience, as they are frequently just users of the resources and benefits available through the club. They usually just visit special event rallies, tag along on the caravans and use the cheaper Airstream only parks. In my experience. they are non-joiners or volunteers to do the grunt work, that is required to put on any function and therefore; should not be rewarded with election to office. Competitive elections, based on proven abilities, would eliminate them from consideration.
It is difficult to say what MALs might take on in the way of service should they be recognized or eligible to do so. The fact that the class often viewed as associate rather than full fledged member and discouraged by leadership among other things would not allow a MAL to show a desire to do more in the club. The first step of entitling a MAL to voting and election priveleges might demonstrate a pleasant and untapped resource. At any rate full dues should equate with full rights. The option of MAL is in existence and many do chose that status so inquiries might best be answered by MALs than by committee members becoming subjective in the gathering of material and the issuance of their opinions in performing their objective duties.
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Old 10-18-2010, 03:20 PM   #140
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Hi Carol, where you been?

How can someone hold office without a clue as to how the units and regions operate without holding office for some period of time.

I think there was a unit president that was voted on the board once.



Carol, res judicata.
Hey it's Bob. Hi there! It is debatable, at least to me, who are the clueless, and I do believe all things are possible and there is at least one exception for every rule. I believe. Units have nothing to do with region and International politics and duties, in fact through choice most units refuse to consider international level concerns. A unit is an intimate entity, whereas the international is far removed from that scope of membership. Units and intra clubs are for the most part operate with autonomy whereas the international has completely different duties and concerns. But you know that and they easily can circumvent convention and constitution or RR. It doesn't take a genius or a person of experience to understand basic rights and ethics. Life's experience is all anyone should need to help with an rv club unless the other officers are all puffed up with pride and arrogance and look down upon those that aren't helped up.
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