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Old 03-02-2010, 11:14 AM   #1
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WBCCI Board Lawsuit

WBCCI Board Lawsuit
A group of WBCCI members have decided to bring suit against WBCCI, the Board and Executive Committee.
The suit seeks a return to fiscal responsibility in light of current economic times.
The use of accepted Parliamentarian Practices and adherence to Roberts Rules in decision making.
A Constitutional change correcting the imbalance currently allowing the IBT to create bylaws and then determine that those bylaws are consistent with its given authority.
(For further info see )
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...ion-59520.html
Secession of the use of prejudicial grievances lacking reasonable recourse.


A halt to the use of the Clubs funds to retain WBCCI Lawyers to harass individual members that may have voiced their opinions contrary to the Board and or the Executive Committee.

Please read through the information if you feel the you can no longer sit idly by and let the Club that we all enjoy continue the coarse they are on and perhaps go bankrupt add your support please do so http://defendwally.org


Your thoughts suggestions and opinions are welcome we must stand together to
SAVE the WBCCI
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Old 03-02-2010, 12:04 PM   #2
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Old 03-02-2010, 01:47 PM   #3
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What an absolutely great idea. Force the club to be fiscal responsible through costly litigation. This just keeps getting more entertaining all the time.

I mean seriously. Folks complained about the raise in dues, but have no problem putting into the hat as it's passed to litigate against WBCCI, thus further exacerbating any financial difficulties they may or may not be having.

The logic is simply flawless.

Best of luck on this one. We'll see how it all turns out, but I doubt seriously you'll gain much support from the judicial branches of government. But hey, that's the American way, sue/litigate if you don't get yer way.
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Old 03-02-2010, 02:30 PM   #4
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Don't hear you much about the actual and recurrent travel spending and lawyer's letters sent to members that are not following the IBT propaganda...
Where have you been then...
And may be the ones that drive the Club could be personally held responsible... and have to pay the club back for their expenses...
would you support that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie View Post
What an absolutely great idea. Force the club to be fiscal responsible through costly litigation. This just keeps getting more entertaining all the time.

I mean seriously. Folks complained about the raise in dues, but have no problem putting into the hat as it's passed to litigate against WBCCI, thus further exacerbating any financial difficulties they may or may not be having.

The logic is simply flawless.

Best of luck on this one. We'll see how it all turns out, but I doubt seriously you'll gain much support from the judicial branches of government. But hey, that's the American way, sue/litigate if you don't get yer way.
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Old 03-02-2010, 02:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie View Post
What an absolutely great idea. Force the club to be fiscal responsible through costly litigation. This just keeps getting more entertaining all the time.

I mean seriously. Folks complained about the raise in dues, but have no problem putting into the hat as it's passed to litigate against WBCCI, thus further exacerbating any financial difficulties they may or may not be having.

The logic is simply flawless.
Why don't you tell us your solution, you do have one don't you?
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Old 03-02-2010, 02:48 PM   #6
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Old 03-02-2010, 02:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie View Post
I mean seriously. Folks complained about the raise in dues, but have no problem putting into the hat as it's passed to litigate against WBCCI, thus further exacerbating any financial difficulties they may or may not be having.

The logic is simply flawless.
You are being deliberately obtuse. Of course it is not about dues. It is about the club's resources being squandered away to the benefit of the people responsible for its management, not to the benefit and growth of the club.

You used to be a resource for this forum; seemed to be a straight-up guy.

Pat
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Old 03-02-2010, 02:51 PM   #8
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It's about time.

Way to go, Howie! A pat on the back to everyone else involved with this.
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Old 03-02-2010, 03:00 PM   #9
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Should I be? I don't feel it's my place, but to answer your question, if anything has been done that is **proven** not legal, then yes, I could support reimbursement of funds, but you have to prove that what was done was illegal, which frankly I don't believe can be proven on any of the charges. Remember, this is a private club and unless they discriminate or violate some law, they really are not liable to any of this. Bad management? Maybe, but there are no laws against loosing money or poor management.

If you notice I've really only commented my point on the part of litigation to achieve financial responsibility. It's kind of an oxymoron because to sue/litigate will cost $$. Money folks don't want WBCCI to spend in the first place. Just another expense that will be incurred if this moves forward.

There are really only two or three outcomes to this:

1) The handful of membership leading this cause wins. Costs WBCCI thousands in legal fees and the handful of members could then sue for their costs, adding to the thousands expended by WBCCI which said members appear staunchly against. Add to it bad press as a bi-product.

2) WBCCI wins, the handful of members leading this is then responsible for WBCCI's costs in defending this litigation, but short term WBCCI could be out thousands and of course bad press, which could also be actionable against the Plaintiffs if they lose.

3) The judge sees this, sees that it's a private club, sees no actual laws broken and throws the whole thing out, which even then the Plaintiffs could still be liable for any fees associated with bringing the case up, let alone any possible defamation of character that could follow.

As with any of the three scenarios, regardless of which, the members further polarize the club and continue the bad blood that exists, which really to me seems like the only real point to this effort.

To be honest, if I were as unhappy as some are, I'd have just done what 2Air said, hitch up and move on, but folks gotta do what folks gotta do. Actually Pat, I'm not being obtuse, I'm being a realist here. Some folks simply can't accept the opinions of others. I may not agree with the action, but it's everyone's right to do what they feel is best, however misguided it may be IMHO.

Keep in mind this is one person's opinion looking at this from the outside and is offered as is and at face value.
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Old 03-02-2010, 03:10 PM   #10
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Life is full of oxymorons. One that comes to mind for me would be a a non-member questioning the validity of a lawsuit. If you are still not a member of WBCCI, why would it matter to you if a group of people bring action against the club leadership?
You hardly look from the outside as you say - when threads like this pop up, you fairly quickly become an active participant. It boggles my mind to tell you the truth.
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Old 03-02-2010, 03:12 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie View Post
Should I be? I don't feel it's my place, but to answer your question, if anything has been done that is **proven** not legal, then yes, I could support reimbursement of funds, but you have to prove that what was done was illegal, which frankly I don't believe can be proven on any of the charges. Remember, this is a private club and unless they discriminate or violate some law, they really are not liable to any of this. Bad management? Maybe, but there are no laws against loosing money or poor management.

If you notice I've really only commented my point on the part of litigation to achieve financial responsibility. It's kind of an oxymoron because to sue/litigate will cost $$. Money folks don't want WBCCI to spend in the first place. Just another expense that will be incurred if this moves forward.

There are really only two or three outcomes to this:

1) The handful of membership leading this cause wins. Costs WBCCI thousands in legal fees and the handful of members could then sue for their costs, adding to the thousands expended by WBCCI which said members appear staunchly against. Add to all if it bad press as a bi-product.
Quote:
2) WBCCI wins, the handful of members leading this is then responsible for WBCCI's costs in defending this litigation, but short term WBCCI could be out thousands and of course bad press, which could also be actionable against the Plaintiffs if they lose.
Wrong again, costs are not done like that in Federal Court.

That's not the way it works.

Quote:
3) The judge sees this, sees that it's a private club and throws the whole thing out, which even then the Plaintiffs could still be liable for any fees associated with bringing the case up, let alone any possible defamation of character that could follow.
That's not going to happen you really don't understand the Court system and should not comment incorrectly

Quote:
To be honest, if I were as unhappy as some are, I'd have just done what 2Air said, hitch up and move on, but folks gotta do what folks gotta do. Actually Pat, I'm not being obtuse, I'm being a realist here. Some folks simply can't accept the opinions of others. I may not agree with the action, but it's everyone's right to do what they feel is best, however misguided it may be.....
You don't throw 55 years of tradition away and drive down the road

We believe the case has merit, we intend to do our best to save the club from self destruction.
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Old 03-02-2010, 03:21 PM   #12
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"add your support please do so http://defendwally.org"

The comments filled out on this page- who are they going to... you guys or directly to WBCCI? I am filling out the info and that would be helpful in how to best express my opinions. Also will the comments be made public or simply reviewed and consolidated (I know we share a lot of the same grievances)?
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Old 03-02-2010, 03:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
Life is full of oxymorons. One that comes to mind for me would be a a non-member questioning the validity of a lawsuit. If you are still not a member of WBCCI, why would it matter to you if a group of people bring action against the club leadership?
You hardly look from the outside as you say - when threads like this pop up, you fairly quickly become an active participant. It boggles my mind to tell you the truth.
Leo is not a member either Tim, so I fail to see the connection. You and the others have this all mapped out. Great. I surely can't stop you and even if I could, I wouldn't cause you all have an agenda and feel you were wronged, you think you're right, I say go for it. To me my heath would be worth more than 55 years (most of which few have been around that long in said club), but that's just me.

You all intend to save the club from self destruction? That's an interesting take on furthering a select group's personal agenda. Haven't you all started another club? I mean in one post I read if you are an Airstreamer, you're in, your part of the family, but on the flip side, if you don't agree 100% with what's being said, 12 guys pile up on you. Expected and telling.

Good luck....to the victor goes the spoils.
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Old 03-02-2010, 03:24 PM   #14
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Please excuse me, but an argument on point would not try to compare the payment of increased dues versus contributing to the costs of a lawsuit. That's just argument for argument's sake.

It is on point to argue that legal fees will be another stress to an already stressed budget. And it is on point to question whether the outcome of the lawsuit would contribute to any positive resolution. And there are innumerable other points to be made.

Yes, there are those that say that if one doesn't like how the club is run, then they should just go.

But that is not right, either. Personally, I don't believe there is a good substitute for the wbcci. The problem is that it has been hijacked by management - who are unassailable by any means due to the way the club is set up and the willingness of management to punish and silence those who object.

Yes - the lawsuit may be expensive for both sides, neither of which has spare resources, from what I can tell. But if this method is seen to be the last way to seek redress then all we can hope for is a quick and reasonable end.

Pat
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