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LI Pets · 07-21-2010, 05:22 PM

Ok, as active mod at Airstream forum for a long time.

Why don't you explain why you decline to join WBCCI, yet be a paid mod on their forum?

In fact why did Cortez choose a non-member?

wheel interested · 07-21-2010, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HowieE

WBCCI Board Lawsuit
A group of WBCCI members have decided to bring suit against WBCCI, the Board and Executive Committee.
The suit seeks a return to fiscal responsibility in light of current economic times.
The use of accepted Parliamentarian Practices and adherence to Roberts Rules in decision making.
A Constitutional change correcting the imbalance currently allowing the IBT to create bylaws and then determine that those bylaws are consistent with its given authority.
(For further info see )
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...ion-59520.html
Secession of the use of prejudicial grievances lacking reasonable recourse.

A halt to the use of the Clubs funds to retain WBCCI Lawyers to harass individual members that may have voiced their opinions contrary to the Board and or the Executive Committee.

Please read through the information if you feel the you can no longer sit idly by and let the Club that we all enjoy continue the coarse they are on and perhaps go bankrupt add your support please do so http://defendwally.org

Your thoughts suggestions and opinions are welcome we must stand together to
SAVE the WBCCI

Howie how many supporters does Defend Wally have? I realize getting the support of a unit such as Metro New York as a plaintif with a generous contribution has furthered the lawsuit, but I will remind everyone this is NOT a Metro New York Unit action and as one of many suppoerters should not assume the control of the litigation. This is of the membership and for the membership. MNYU lobbyists should not pre-empt the origination and direction of this member driven initiative nor redirect of its own velocity.

LI Pets · 07-21-2010, 07:09 PM

Carol, I asked Howie not to reply, we can not discuss details of this lawsuit.

You can keep asking till the cows come home no info will be disclosed.

but now you're really starting to harass this thread.

Be patient.

"This is of the membership and for the membership"

Since you brought it up Carol you're not a WBCCI member R U?

You could have paid for membership instead and changed it from within

wheel interested · 07-21-2010, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LI Pets

Carol, I asked Howie not to reply, we can not discuss details of this lawsuit.

You can keep asking till the cows come home no info will be disclosed.

but now you're really starting to harass this thread.

Be patient.

"This is of the membership and for the membership"

Since you brought it up Carol you're not a WBCCI member R U?

You could have paid for membership instead and changed it from within

No I gave my money to Defend Wally this time. But was Thoreau not a citizen when he refused to pay his taxes?

You wont find a non-member with my level of commitment. However should you feel bad for me please feel free to pay my dues. It wasn't a decision against it was having no income that fueled the decision for 2010. But point on point I can site you for inaccuracies. Even though you have the money to spend, I have been paying greater attention for a longer time.

I certainly could have. Do you give refunds Bob? I'd like one and I will apply it to next year's dues.

And you told me not to respond too. Now I ask you, what makes you the person to tell everyone else to remain quiet?

Silvertwinkie · 07-21-2010, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LI Pets

Ok, as active mod at Airstream forum for a long time.

Why don't you explain why you decline to join WBCCI, yet be a paid mod on their forum?

In fact why did Cortez choose a non-member?

Bob, I don't owe you, Leo, Tim, Howie or anyone else any of my reasons for joining or not. It's frankly none of your business as it is a personal choice that has nothing to do with the questions being put to you. You all keep asking the same thing each time I post, and my answer will remain the same. I'm not sure I can be any more clear here.

As for Carol's question and the larger question at hand, it's one we all have been interested in hearing for about 5 months now. Since some folks have contributed money and other support, the questions being put to you are not personal in nature. Surprisingly you've divulged what I would consider to be far more info than what most folks in legal circles would consider a good idea, yet for some reason, even a rough date, rough quarter, or year when you're finally, at long last gonna file, now is some sort of top secret that could sink the whole ship? Are you serious?

To answer your question about why, I will refer you to your club leadership and/or electronic committee and/or corporate as Greg is not the only person in WBCCI who makes these decisions...and for the record I am not compensated in ANY way to be a part of the team on the WBCCI forum. Please get your facts straight before putting such unsubstantiated rumor out there.

Each day that passes Bob, you loose more and more credibility as you evade, attack and deflect.

Goin camping · 07-21-2010, 09:05 PM

Would not hurt anyone to be more polite on this thread.

wheel interested · 07-21-2010, 09:45 PM

II must be totally insensitized because I am not even aware of impolite dialog any where in this thread.

Buttercup · 07-21-2010, 10:00 PM

Wait a second, why would you bring my name into your reply? I haven't said a thing to you for weeks (cause it just goes nowhere). So why drag me into this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

Bob, I don't owe you, Leo, Tim, Howie or anyone else any of my reasons for joining or not. It's frankly none of your business as it is a personal choice that has nothing to do with the questions being put to you. You all keep asking the same thing each time I post, and my answer will remain the same. I'm not sure I can be any more clear here.

As for Carol's question and the larger question at hand, it's one we all have been interested in hearing for about 5 months now. Since some folks have contributed money and other support, the questions being put to you are not personal in nature. Surprisingly you've divulged what I would consider to be far more info than what most folks in legal circles would consider a good idea, yet for some reason, even a rough date, rough quarter, or year when you're finally, at long last gonna file, now is some sort of top secret that could sink the whole ship? Are you serious?

To answer your question about why, I will refer you to your club leadership and/or electronic committee and/or corporate as Greg is not the only person in WBCCI who makes these decisions...and for the record I am not compensated in ANY way to be a part of the team on the WBCCI forum. Please get your facts straight before putting such unsubstantiated rumor out there.

Each day that passes Bob, you loose more and more credibility as you evade, attack and deflect.

hampstead38 · 07-21-2010, 10:01 PM

In my line of work, I hear it all the time. "I'm going to sue." Ninety-nine percent of the time, it's an idle threat. People just say it because they think the threat gives them leverage. Ninety-nine percent of the time, it doesn't. When it doesn't, most people just go away.

Litigation is expensive, insanely expensive... and the outcome is never certain. Most people decide the cost-benefit analysis just doesn't work out. In fact, nine times out of ten it's better to compromise on a settlement than go to court and roll the dice. This $7500 discussed is not enough to bring a substantive case to trial. And thus far, it hasn't.

Coloradobus · 07-21-2010, 11:02 PM

WHEW!

LI Pets · 07-22-2010, 04:27 AM

Ad Kalendas Graecas not at all

see post # 716

The figure of $7500 was our initial goal, more was donated.

joecolao · 07-22-2010, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel interested

Me of all people is asking...inquiring minds and supporters want to know.

I wouldn't think a secret plan was necessary. The facts speak volumes and loud enough on their own. I do know you can't get a hit you never swing at. The issues are a matter of past record, I don't understand the ongoing phase you are dealing with daily. Perhaps the choice of legal team should be changed to a lawyer that will file quickly all the evidence that has already been amassed and documented for presentation. The legal fund was established by supporters to help get Leo reinstated and get the club on the track by holding leadership accountable for a variety of self serving and unethical actions. As Nike would say just do it! The course of inaction is guaranteed to fail.

Dear Carol and Fellow Supporters,
I can assure you all - that there is a legal team. I can assure you that progress has NOT at all been stalled.
This lawsuit is very time consuming. There are many that are sacrificing their personal (summer time!) to ensure the success of our lawsuit.

I can personally represent to all of you that are anxious and that care about this lawsuit - that - Bob has represented the facts accurately and fairly. It is clear to me that this has been a challenge to him while attempting to deal with the varying agendas he has had to face on these Forums.
On behalf of myself and others working on this lawsuit, I thank him and appreciate him for his efforts.

HowieE · 07-22-2010, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hampstead38

In my line of work, I hear it all the time. "I'm going to sue." Ninety-nine percent of the time, it's an idle threat. People just say it because they think the threat gives them leverage. Ninety-nine percent of the time, it doesn't. When it doesn't, most people just go away.

In your line of work how many that threaten suit actually meet with a Lawyer and leave a check on the table. We have and we did.

Now also in your line of work you should realize public discussion comes to a halt at that point. This is not to be evasive to the public or supporters but rather an important point of legal strategy. A good Lawyer never asks a question he does not all ready know the answer to. Likewise he never discloses, or allows his client, to disclose actions before the fact.

I would ask those supporting the action to remain confident that progress is taking place and I would ask our hecklers to continue heckling as you remind the Leadership of coming events lest they forget.

To those who have held sympathy with our efforts but feared it was just one of the above mentioned 99% you may want to visit Defendwally http://defendwally.org/ and join us.

hampstead38 · 07-22-2010, 08:17 AM

In a word, yes. And I've seen cases fall apart when the check "left on the table" ran out.

And Howie, please don't tell me what a "good lawyer" does... at least not until you've spent your first million on litigation expenses.

This thread screams "amateur hour." A good lawyer advises against clients rambling on about a pending legal case on a public Internet forum. A good lawyer advises clients against revealing (or even hinting to the size) of a legal war chest, particularly if it's a puny $7500. A good lawyer doesn't give the other side free discovery. A good lawyer doesn't give the other side months to sift through free discovery and prepare a defense in advance. If there's a good lawyer buried somewhere in this mess, you and the rest of the potential litigants might want to listen to him or her.

I know you think bumping this thread is helping your cause, Howie. That's because you wearing blue beret blinders. You think this thread is intimidating the IBT leadership? I would guess this thread makes the IBT lawyers laugh out loud. You think this thread is generating sympathy for your cause? You think someone who just bought an Airstream (new or vintage) is going to read this thread and say, "Wow, this is a great club for me to join"? You think this battle between two groups of true believers is winning any new converts to the WBCCI? What... you think there are a bunch of Airstream owner suffering drama deficiency disorder?

As critically as the IBT has been portrayed here, the proponents of the lawsuit have cast themselves in an equally unflattering light. No matter who wins the battle, Howie, both sides are busy losing the war. I don't mind bumping this thread because I'd rather people read this and decide for themselves before spending $75 for pretty red numbers.

Gene · 07-22-2010, 09:03 AM

A good lawyer does ask questions he (or she) doesn't know the answer to—that's how you find out the answers. You try to minimize surprises, but there are always surprises. They aren't usually the Perry Mason type of surprises (even they can happen), but in depositions, trials and investigating a case, there are things that just happen.

What surprises me about this is the amount of time it's taking to prepare a complaint. Not all preparation need be done right away. The defendants' answer will tell things you don't know now. Discovery will reveal more things to prepare. But… perhaps lawyers on both sides are talking about how to proceed and to minimize expenses for all parties—that could expand time. Minimizing expenses serves everyone in this type of case well and often lawyers discuss the merits of the dispute for a long time before anyone files a lawsuit. Announcing a lawsuit is a way to raise money; it may not mean there will be one. The problem is once you announce it, it looks strange when nothing visible happens.

Gene

MRHottinger · 07-22-2010, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hampstead38

....You think someone who just bought an Airstream (new or vintage) is going to read this thread and say, "Wow, this is a great club for me to join"? You think this battle between two groups of true believers is winning any new converts to the WBCCI? What... you think there are a bunch of Airstream owner suffering drama deficiency disorder?

As critically as the IBT has been portrayed here, the proponents of the lawsuit have cast themselves in an equally unflattering light. No matter who wins the battle, Howie, both sides are busy losing the war. I don't mind bumping this thread because I'd rather people read this and decide for themselves before spending $75 for pretty red numbers.

AMEN... As a new owner this thread is exhausting and depressing on both sides. We bought an AS not because of the WBCCI or anybody on this board, we bought it because it is the best investment to make if we are going to use it a LOT!!! We bought it because in the real world people smile when they see an Airstream and want to look at it. We bought it because it makes US smile. We bought it because it wont fall apart with us using most of the year... We are out often and so far we have met great people on the board and in a various parks. Remember why you bought an Airstream??? Some maybe for nothing more that prestige, like owning the BMW 760li in your driveway or living in the neighborhood you live in, but I bet most bought because they love their Airstream. I have no comments on the law suit, this comment is only about the discord a new or prospective new owner sees. Do we regret our purchase because of this thread?? h

ll no!!! But it does not me feel good. I dont side with anybody other than, if you know nothing of the person you might be reponding too, dont go off making generalized statements about the people. I have discovered we have doctors, lawyers, performers, new families, retired families and people looking for thier place in life. The knowledge of the people on this board is awesome and I am honored to have a place to absorb some of the knowledge and experience that is here for those who ask.

With saying this I am now loading my camper for a great weekend celebrating by Lake Lanier for the weekend, a SOB class A, SOB 5th wheel, vinage AS, new AS and us with this in the middle 1980 AS. Lawsuit be damned we are going to have fun in our "new" Airstream.

As for spending the money on the membership that is each individuals personal choice. I will because Georgia has a great unit ot TOG and I fully intend to be a part of these people. I doubt I will ever make an International event. Membership is not just about the national people, in my opinion it is about the local and regional people.

Thanks for allow me to form my opinion.

Mike

Buttercup · 07-22-2010, 07:56 PM

Ummm - for those who find the thread boring, not to the benefit of WBCCI or it's members, not worthy because a million dollars has not been spent - I have just one question.... Why are you reading it then? I have all the faith in the world that what Joe says is exactly the case.
If this thread is boring and annoying, I just stumbled on a thread about curtain rod hooks - go check it out! I am sure it will be more enlightening for you.