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Old 09-16-2010, 05:00 PM   #1009
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I'm not advocating that people sue, so much as saying "if you feel they are holding on to your money and you've made reasonable efforts to recover it, there is an affordable system in place to handle this through the courts. How to use that system is an exercise for the reader."
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Old 09-16-2010, 05:24 PM   #1010
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Got tomatoes? That may not be as classy as the RP's first lady and her tea party with Leo, but hey we are only mere members...
Or tar and feathers?

Maggie
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Old 09-16-2010, 05:46 PM   #1011
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Thumbs up

Yes Maggie I am wanting to step closer to this issue also and try a hands on approach. And then run him out on a rail. And who said women were the meeker sex? It's just not so, we just happen to be highly disciplined.
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:07 PM   #1012
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It was enlightening when I Googled "LIPets" and the person's name and read about the history this person has with lawsuits and forums. Interesting and very telling -to his behavior in the Defend Wally "lawsuit".
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Old 09-17-2010, 11:07 AM   #1013
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Who has violated my trust worse? The IBT or "defend wally"?

Paula
The way this "settlement" was described, I felt that since the IP was behind the offer, then a good will effort was sufficient for hope and I was willing to invest in that hope by supporting the "settlement".

Now it seems that the basis for the "settlement" was made up out of whole cloth.

If that is true (and the rumored letter from the IP indicates that it is), then Paula's question hits the issue right on the head.

Pat
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Old 09-17-2010, 11:25 AM   #1014
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Old 09-17-2010, 11:45 AM   #1015
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Hollywood taught me as a child there were good guys and bad guys. It was easy to tell the difference.

It's not true anymore. Sometimes all the principals are bad guys, or perhaps of questionable intent. It's all so confusing.

Over at some of the TAC threads there been a discussion of whether a new organization needs to be without any rules or some. Insurance is a question. National or regional groups. This is a far more productive discussion. If you like the WBCCI wars, this is the place to stay. If you want to camp, somewhere else is the place of the future.

The discussion there is quite active and sometimes irrational (what would you expect?):

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f505...ion-68927.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f505...tes-68930.html

Gene
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Old 09-17-2010, 06:46 PM   #1016
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Old 09-18-2010, 11:49 AM   #1017
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Come to the dark side!

I was able to find out what really happen.

Norm called up someone and in his “Darth Vader” voice said the following:

“I am your father. Come to the dark side with me and we can rule the WBCCI forever”


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Old 09-18-2010, 08:56 PM   #1018
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Who's going to Photoshop Darth Vader with a beret?
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Old 09-18-2010, 10:23 PM   #1019
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Is that like pin the tail on the Jack A**? I like party games. OK here's a rudimentary stab at it.


Name:   vaderberet.jpg
Views: 244
Size:  69.8 KB

But the berets in this thread are much better! Good times those were and we thought we could actually see the light.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...eret-4115.html
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Old 09-19-2010, 12:29 AM   #1020
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Just to squelch any rumors I just want to let everybody know what happened with SaveWally and why.

I did indeed shut down the SaveWally web site and forums. I am the domain name owner and have hosted the site since its inception. Sever people have collaborated on the site over the years but it has been principally an effort of just 2 people. SaveWally was started by the simultaneous efforts of myself, Leo Garvey. We have had the support of a few other like-minded people who were opposed to the name change issue back in 2006. Back in the day we settled disagreements with Rock – Paper – Scissors contests back. Those days are certainly over! SaveWally has always been an open place for communication – anything goes there as long as it generally was in the direction of forwarding a progressive view of the club. I am proud to say that only one act of moderation was ever exercised on the SaveWally forums.

Over the years there have been several attempts to shut down the forums, namely by representatives of the WBCCI who sought to block our message with threats of trademark & copyright violations (which could not be proved or enforced) to outright lies (stating that we were hosting child pornography on the site). We persevered despite these efforts because we had a unified message that could not be denied. Sure, a few folks are dancing in the streets right now with this news. But they will be celebrating prematurely in my humble opinion.

I did this because SaveWally has diverged so far from its original purpose that the group has no validity anymore. The back and forth arguing between people who were (and likely still are) friends has only served to weaken the SaveWally movement to the point that it became a group to be laughed at rather than the group who was mumbled about under cursed breaths in front of an open microphone at a delegates meeting.

SaveWally has gone a long way towards its goal of educating the WBCCI membership to the issues at hand within the club. It was a clearinghouse for an opposing point of view to the myopic expressions of the IBT who would seemingly scuttle the clubs 50+ year history for the sake of a few friends who don’t respect the great Wally Byam name or the grand history of the largest Airstream only club in the world.

I would like everybody to know that I did not do this under threat of litigious action of any sort, nor for reasons of protecting my position as the 3rd VP of the Vintage Airstream Club. I did this because I was sick and tired if seeing friends pull me one way and another to pull posts and remove people from the site. I will not do that. And rather than allow myself to be stretched like spaghetti, I elected to just close it all down. Some people were not happy about this decision while others understood and accepted it.

There is one final message I would like to deliver and that is about Leo Garvey and my years of working with him on WBCCI issues. Leo has an amazing ability to search out facts and build an argument against a position like the name change issue, the MOHO issue and budgetary concerns that would normally escape the average member.

Where Leo’s greatest fault lies is perhaps in his presentation – a bold, in your face, no holds bared expression of the facts. Many have disagreed with him but I have always seen his message as spot on. I do not see where anybody could argue that the club is spending money like it is going out of style for example. The message was so potent that the club immediately started taking action to shore things up. Leo’s messages may be spot on, but his presentation sucks! In fact it is bad enough that on many occasions, several of us would have to edit his message down to make it seem less angry and more on target. The message is always there, but sometimes it had to be coaxed out.

I think that Leo's message was so on target that the WBCCI sought to remove him at all costs. The WBCCI’s efforts to remove Leo from the club were what I believe to be a very calculated move on the club’s part. I do fully believe that there was a concerted effort by the last administration in the WBCCI to get Leo out no matter what. What with the documented promises of back-up grievances if he was reinstated speaks volumes to just how much the club wanted him out. Nobody has gone as far as Leo has to expose the inner workings and fallacies the club leadership has pushed on the membership of the club.

In my humble opinion, the club has only weakened itself and accelerated its demise by kicking Leo out. They did it to preserve their way of doing business and in doing that have only guaranteed the club will not last as long as Wally had intended his trailers to last. The club is going down day by day. And with honoring the opposing points of view about where we are and where we are going, we are guaranteeing the myopic tour straight to hell for the club.

I hope Leo does eventually get reinstated to the club without exception and threat of immediate backup grievances. I hope the club can take a look at the message, rather than the presentation for a change, and make a decision that will truly ensure the history of the club will not be denied for the sake of a few who no longer fit the demographic of this Airstream Only club.

For the future, I will be opposing any action by the club leadership that seeks to bring any SOB motorhome into the club. I will be pushing back against any efforts that seek to deny the Wally Byam history that this club was founded on. Without Wally and his sister, Helen, this club would not exist. Anybody who seeks to deny that history by changing the clubs name or diluting it with a box SOB will be in my sights. I may not be as dynamic as others like Leo in my presentation but I will still fight with all my heart any effort that goes against the singular brand nature of this club. And, I will not be alone in this fight. Give me Airstream or give me death!
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Old 09-19-2010, 03:21 AM   #1021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
Just to squelch any rumors I just want to let everybody know what happened with SaveWally and why.

I did indeed shut down the SaveWally web site and forums. I am the domain name owner and have hosted the site since its inception. Sever people have collaborated on the site over the years but it has been principally an effort of just 2 people. SaveWally was started by the simultaneous efforts of myself, Leo G. We have had the support of a few other like-minded people who were opposed to the name change issue back in 2006. Back in the day we settled disagreements with Rock – Paper – Scissors contests back. Those days are certainly over! SaveWally has always been an open place for communication – anything goes there as long as it generally was in the direction of forwarding a progressive view of the club. I am proud to say that only one act of moderation was ever exercised on the SaveWally forums.

Over the years there have been several attempts to shut down the forums, namely by representatives of the WBCCI who sought to block our message with threats of trademark & copyright violations (which could not be proved or enforced) to outright lies (stating that we were hosting child pornography on the site). We persevered despite these efforts because we had a unified message that could not be denied. Sure, a few folks are dancing in the streets right now with this news. But they will be celebrating prematurely in my humble opinion.

I did this because SaveWally has diverged so far from its original purpose that the group has no validity anymore. The back and forth arguing between people who were (and likely still are) friends has only served to weaken the SaveWally movement to the point that it became a group to be laughed at rather than the group who was mumbled about under cursed breaths in front of an open microphone at a delegates meeting.

SaveWally has gone a long way towards its goal of educating the WBCCI membership to the issues at hand within the club. It was a clearinghouse for an opposing point of view to the myopic expressions of the IBT who would seemingly scuttle the clubs 50+ year history for the sake of a few friends who don’t respect the great Wally Byam name or the grand history of the largest Airstream only club in the world.

I would like everybody to know that I did not do this under threat of litigious action of any sort, nor for reasons of protecting my position as the 3rd VP of the Vintage Airstream Club. I did this because I was sick and tired if seeing friends pull me one way and another to pull posts and remove people from the site. I will not do that. And rather than allow myself to be stretched like spaghetti, I elected to just close it all down. Some people were not happy about this decision while others understood and accepted it.

There is one final message I would like to deliver and that is about Leo G and my years of working with him on WBCCI issues. Leo has an amazing ability to search out facts and build an argument against a position like the name change issue, the MOHO issue and budgetary concerns that would normally escape the average member.

Where Leo’s greatest fault lies is perhaps in his presentation – a bold, in your face, no holds bared expression of the facts. Many have disagreed with him but I have always seen his message as spot on. I do not see where anybody could argue that the club is spending money like it is going out of style for example. The message was so potent that the club immediately started taking action to shore things up. Leo’s messages may be spot on, but his presentation sucks! In fact it is bad enough that on many occasions, several of us would have to edit his message down to make it seem less angry and more on target. The message is always there, but sometimes it had to be coaxed out.

I think that Leo's message was so on target that the WBCCI sought to remove him at all costs. The WBCCI’s efforts to remove Leo from the club were what I believe to be a very calculated move on the club’s part. I do fully believe that there was a concerted effort by the last administration in the WBCCI to get Leo out no matter what. What with the documented promises of back-up grievances if he was reinstated speaks volumes to just how much the club wanted him out. Nobody has gone as far as Leo has to expose the inner workings and fallacies the club leadership has pushed on the membership of the club.

In my humble opinion, the club has only weakened itself and accelerated its demise by kicking Leo out. They did it to preserve their way of doing business and in doing that have only guaranteed the club will not last as long as Wally had intended his trailers to last. The club is going down day by day. And with honoring the opposing points of view about where we are and where we are going, we are guaranteeing the myopic tour straight to hell for the club.

I hope Leo does eventually get reinstated to the club without exception and threat of immediate backup grievances. I hope the club can take a look at the message, rather than the presentation for a change, and make a decision that will truly ensure the history of the club will not be denied for the sake of a few who no longer fit the demographic of this Airstream Only club.

For the future, I will be opposing any action by the club leadership that seeks to bring any SOB motorhome into the club. I will be pushing back against any efforts that seek to deny the Wally Byam history that this club was founded on. Without Wally and his sister, Helen, this club would not exist. Anybody who seeks to deny that history by changing the clubs name or diluting it with a box SOB will be in my sights. I may not be as dynamic as others like Leo in my presentation but I will still fight with all my heart any effort that goes against the singular brand nature of this club. And, I will not be alone in this fight. Give me Airstream or give me death!
Thank you for the explanation and thank you for all your efforts.

Thanks, Dan
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Old 09-19-2010, 04:53 AM   #1022
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Tim,
I only hope that you will participate in providing a forum to help us expose the falsehoods that are brought forward by a closely connected inner circle who seek to run the club for their own personal goals and to pamper their egos.

Most of the current leaders have a good heart and intentions but lack any business training or successful business management experience. Most of them are long term WBCCI types that have labored long and hard for years to reach the offices that they have achieved. The structure and traditions of the club requires that. Because of the long years of succession, this makes the top leaders older and more set in their ways. They have come to enjoy the way things are and are out of touch with the younger generation of potential new members.

This truly is a club of volunteers, but unfortunately they are inexperienced at what they are attempting to do. Great leaders surround themselves with a council of professionals to assist them in those areas, where they lack specific knowledge. Running a successful club, in today's market requires skills and an understanding of what the younger people want from their club. The leaders must realize that any club belongs to the members not the leaders. To be a leader, you must be out ahead of the crowd, but also need to be moving in the same direction as the crowd, to remain a leader. Today, members will not spend their hard earned money renewing their memberships, unless they feel they are receiving a fair return (in terms of benefits) for the money they are spending. The club must offer benefits that have value to the majority of the membership.

The 23% non-renewal rate, after the first year of membership, tells me that the club has failed to provide the benefits those members had expected to receive. The club needs to fully explain to potential members just what they can expect to receive by becoming members of the club and then deliver on those promises. The 43% non-renewal rate in members that have signed up as Mal's tells me that they have been oversold the "product" and have quickly found out the WBCCI lifestyle benefits are not for them.

We need leaders that seek out the benefits that are desired by the younger potential members entering the RV lifestyle and restructure the club to address those needs, if we are to survive into the future and preserve those values that were core to Wally Byam's vision.
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