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Old 08-28-2010, 10:16 AM   #855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nasons View Post
...During the course of preparing the law suit, Defend Wally/Metro NY was contacted by WBCCI.
Discussions began, and eventually centered on withholding the lawsuit in exchange for appointing a representative from Defend Wally/Metro NY to sit on a newly created “By-Laws Revision Committee.”
This five member Committee would be tasked with consolidating and incorporating changes to the club’s Bylaws and Constitution. Encouraged by this turn of events and intent upon having a seat at the table to institute positive change within WBCCI, Defend Wally/Metro NY has decided to withhold filing suit in the hope that changes in the club can be achieved amicably through this new Committee....
this post came from some1 with NO HISTORY of posting lies here...

so most readers would simply assume it is a true/factual recount of events...

had it come directly from ONE of the regulars who tells tails (mispell'n on porpoise)...

it might have been read with more skepticism.

the POINT BEING...

has ANYONE verified this story/plan/chain of events with members of the REAL wb' leadership team?

in other words what is THE REAL STORY?

was there in fact a sellout or committee seat exchanged for NOT going forward with a fictional law suit?

which lies are true lies?

which truths are not true...

have any of U checked the reported facts...

with 2nd and 3rd resources that are NOT part of the save/defend/cry team?

____________

an early objection expressed several times related to the solicitation of money here...

NOW some of those who swallowed that HOOK want their money back?

this is partly WHY the original redirects to GIVE MONEY should have been removed...

'cuz now those same exchanges are about REFUNDS...

none of which is or really SHOULD be on arf, imo.

but that DID HAPPEN and now the GIVE ME BACK MY MONEY posts SHOULD happen.

anyway have ANY OF THE MONEY GIVERS checked the facts?

what is the OTHER real story on this new committee and membership on it?

the last 100 posts or so, AND the new tied threads all are based on this being a true story...

is it?




cheers
2air'
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:26 AM   #856
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Originally Posted by nasons View Post
Numerous Defend Wally and Metro NY members are dissatisfied with the WBCCI status quo, and feel that positive change in the club is both urgent and necessary if it is to survive. These same members believe that their voices are not being heard, and that positive change is being blocked by antiquated, cumbersome club procedures and disinterested past officers. To address this situation, Defend Wally created a legal fund and Metro NY later came on board as an additional plaintiff. Legal counsel was retained to file suit against WBCCI and institute change.

During the course of preparing the law suit, Defend Wally/Metro NY was contacted by WBCCI. Discussions began, and eventually centered on withholding the lawsuit in exchange for appointing a representative from Defend Wally/Metro NY to sit on a newly created “By-Laws Revision Committee.” This five member Committee would be tasked with consolidating and incorporating changes to the club’s Bylaws and Constitution. Encouraged by this turn of events and intent upon having a seat at the table to institute positive change within WBCCI, Defend Wally/Metro NY has decided to withhold filing suit in the hope that changes in the club can be achieved amicably through this new Committee.

Unfortunately, Mr. Leo G has declined such compromise. He has moved on in another direction and is in no way involved with Defend Wally/Metro NY’s desire to achieve change through dialogue, negotiation, and compromise.

Defend Wally/Metro NY has chosen a representative to the Committee, and he has been duly appointed by WBCCI. It is the desire of this individual to represent any members who are dissatisfied with the club, and to bridge the disharmony between our groups. This representative will be a conduit for these dissatisfied members, and seek to institute constructive change and cooperation from within the club. We believe it is critical to the club’s creditability that the concerns of these members be properly addressed, and that the parties continue to operate in good faith, toward the resolution of any outstanding issues.

To this end we have directed counsel to suspend legal action while the By-Laws Revision Committee meets to generate its recommendations, and the WBCCI act upon same.

Sincerely,
Michele M. Curley
President Metro NY Unit
and on behalf of Defend Wally

Obviously, this lawsuit has not been settled.

I don't believe there were even any negotiations.
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Old 08-28-2010, 12:01 PM   #857
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We received yesterday, as I would expect all WBCCI members did, an email from Bob Moss with the past fiscal year's financial statement.

The statement indicates nearly $30,000 spent in legal fees, which reasonably would include legal advice and consultation regarding this proposed lawsuit. That is a substantial expense for the WBCCI to deal with this mess, not "at no cost", IMO. Why shouldn't they try to avoid a lawsuit as opposed to taking the stance bring it on ? Bob being the most vociferous, etc., activist and drum-beater here may well explain him being their choice for a seat on this committee.

There are signs and indicators within the WBCCI of movement in a positive direction, not at the speed of light but nor is that realistic to expect. I think they need to be given a chance at this point to see what else they can produce. There was not the $$ to fund this over time, which would have then created a new crisis and litigation begun that went absolutely nowhere.

See the handwriting on the wall, guys! AirForums and the dispersal of critical info here is not going to go away and the WBCCI is under extreme pressure to listen to its' members and move into the 21st century. It's absurd to keep ranting about why wasn't the lawsuit filed---it couldn't be. Give the new path a chance.

Maggie
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Old 08-28-2010, 01:04 PM   #858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug&maggie View Post
It's absurd to keep ranting about why wasn't the lawsuit filed---it couldn't be.
When did you know the lawsuit couldn't be filed?

Did you get your refund yet?

Were you kept in the loop, informed, or consulted as to the progress of the suit other than here on these forums or the DW site?
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Old 08-28-2010, 02:38 PM   #859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug&maggie View Post
...Why shouldn't they try to avoid a lawsuit as opposed to taking the stance bring it on ? Bob being the most vociferous, etc., activist and drum-beater here may well explain him being their choice for a seat on this committee...
this is an EXAMPLE of the rationalization one might INVENT

to go along with the STORY told here about the legal action and committee.

it is NOT verification of the story FROM the ibt/prez or even ANY real committee member.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug&maggie View Post
...There are signs and indicators within the WBCCI of movement in a positive direction, not at the speed of light but nor is that realistic to expect...
anyone even VAGUELY connected to the wb' over the last 4-6 years...

might have typed this though once or twice...

4-6 years ago.

that's THE POINT, longer term members or those LOOKING for signs of change were pointing them out years ago...

the signs went NO WHERE.


Quote:
Originally Posted by doug&maggie View Post
...There was not the $$ to fund this over time, which would have then created a new crisis and litigation begun that went absolutely nowhere...
this might be very well true and was pointed out months ago...

the point NOW is that SOME OF THOSE (not carol or leo) who took on LEADING the cause have caved...

no one actually knows WHY or HOW the caving came about.

and those that have caved, STILL HOLD THE MONEY given from those who WANTED legal action, not a committee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug&maggie View Post
...It's absurd to keep ranting about why wasn't the lawsuit filed---it couldn't be. Give the new path a chance...
1. no one is ranting, these are RATIONAL, reasoned thoughts backed with REAL facts, open for all to interpret.

2. the "absurd" part is someone is HOLDING MONEY and has SPENT part of it, withOUT actually doing what was advertised.

3. again "giving a new path" (the new committee) a chance is EXACTLY what has happened for years and years...

only new members of the wb' or those that have NOT LEARNED the recent history, would suggest this.
____________

when some1 here suggests THIS is deja VU, pay attention grasshopper...

it IS DEJA VU.
____________

the wb' IS changing.

the change is PRIMARILY a result of fallling cash reserves.

we all know when they run out of money real changes will happen.

those TRYING to fix the mess (leo and many other sincere members) have been trying to do so...

BEFORE the money dries up.
___________

a committee won't fix it.
___________

but the questions remain...

-HOW did bob end up on this committee...

-WERE there negotiations as described here...

-WHO suggested the committee and member selection process...

-WHAT are they really charged with doing....

>>>>in other words dont' RATIONALIZE the story told, VERIFY the facts and EVENTS...

cheers
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Old 08-28-2010, 02:46 PM   #860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistral blue View Post
When did you know the lawsuit couldn't be filed?

Did you get your refund yet?

Were you kept in the loop, informed, or consulted as to the progress of the suit other than here on these forums or the DW site?
If you read back over the past few days you can see that the $ was not there to pursue this once filed.

I have no refund coming as I made no contribution---I never thought filing a lawsuit was a good idea.

I knew only what y'all knew, right here.

Maggie
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Old 08-28-2010, 02:46 PM   #861
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Originally Posted by 65GT View Post
Unfortunately from my end ALL information relating to this "settlement" is from just one source and it wasn't the attorney. ...
yes i understand leo and it's unlikely your CURRENT info stream can be trusted for real info.

but even without a GOOD SOURCE for the details,

you have been sniffing out and posting some of the INconsistencies in the story offered here ...

good radar ol'fella.
__________

some of the OTHER CURRENT members in good standing, can explore further and VERIFY the details...

there are several past office holders, leaders and so on reading here/or posting who NEED TO...

verify with the wb' side, some/any/all the details offered in this thread.

there are many references here to "fiduciary responsibility" that all read like OFFICIAL nonsense...

those that have pledged or GIVEN money need to dig deeper and verify...

it is after all their money, not bobs or the defend group, or metro ny...

don't put your BRAINz in escrow too.


cheers
2air'
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Old 08-28-2010, 02:53 PM   #862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
this is an EXAMPLE of the rationalization one might INVENT

to go along with the STORY told here about the legal action and committee.

it is NOT verification of the story FROM the ibt/prez or even ANY real committee member.



anyone even VAGUELY connected to the wb' over the last 4-6 years...

might have typed this though once or twice...

4-6 years ago.

that's THE POINT, longer term members or those LOOKING for signs of change were pointing them out years ago...

the signs went NO WHERE.




this might be very well true and was pointed out months ago...

the point NOW is that SOME OF THOSE (not carol or leo) who took on LEADING the cause have caved...

no one actually knows WHY or HOW the caving came about.

and those that have caved, STILL HOLD THE MONEY given from those who WANTED legal action, not a committee.



1. no one is ranting, these are RATIONAL, reasoned thoughts backed with REAL facts, open for all to interpret.

2. the "absurd" part is someone is HOLDING MONEY and has SPENT part of it, withOUT actually doing what was advertised.

3. again "giving a new path" (the new committee) a chance is EXACTLY what has happened for years and years...

only new members of the wb' or those that have NOT LEARNED the recent history, would suggest this.
____________

when some1 here suggests THIS is deja VU, pay attention grasshopper...

it IS DEJA VU.
____________

the wb' IS changing.

the change is PRIMARILY a result of fallling cash reserves.

we all know when they run out of money real changes will happen.

those TRYING to fix the mess (leo and many other sincere members) have been trying to do so...

BEFORE the money dries up.
___________

a committee won't fix it.
___________

but the questions remain...

-HOW did bob end up on this committee...

-WERE there negotiations as described here...

-WHO suggested the committee and member selection process...

-WHAT are they really charged with doing....

>>>>in other words dont' RATIONALIZE the story told, VERIFY the facts and EVENTS...

cheers
2air'

I agree with much of what you're saying here, I just see that it's over. I also thinking there's some ranting going on. I would be likely be ranting if I had contributed to this lawsuit, which I did not.

We may not have the facts, why's and wherefore's, etc., but they that were going to be the Plaintiffs and responsible for paying for this suit over time have chosen a different path.

And I'm not saying it went down the way it should have---it certainly didn't---just that it's done and those who want their money back need to take that up with those that have it. It just seems to me all these posts are pointless and redundant, as nothing can be resolved here.

It may be time for me to stop reading all this. The handwriting was on the wall months ago, IMO.

Maggie
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Old 08-28-2010, 03:00 PM   #863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug&maggie View Post
...It may be time for me to stop reading all this...
good choice.

but finding out what REALLY did happen, what really IS happening, and what really WILL happen still matters...

so does the money taken from members and solicited HERE.

the mess needs cleaning up, that still matters.

and there is NO PROOF it's over, only the few posts by those now HOLDING the money...

that's the point, as is reINstatement, as is a REAL effort to change the wb'....

the SELF PROCLAIMED poster in this thread....

is no leader, no visionary, and with NO RECORD of ever helping the wb' GET to the next level.

as posted earlier the SCHeeeeME was or became a ruse and now the ruser is gonna serve the membership?

eye dunt think sew...

cheers
2air'
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Old 08-28-2010, 03:32 PM   #864
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You know..........

It seems to me that when I pledged to support Defend Wally there was a law suit that was going to be brought against the WBCCI for the many reasons originally listed.

Now there is no lawsuit and we are being told that the contributions are being held in escrow........FOR WHAT?

Please enlighten me here without BS or heated rhetoric......name calling or any other diversion. Some folks are in....others out. I simply want to know where my contribution is and WHEN I CAN EXPECT IT TO BE RETURNED now that the original purpose for the funds no longer exists. I did not donate funds to form a committee, I DONATED FUNDS FOR A LAWSUIT THAT WAS TO CHANGE THE DIRECTION OF THE FAILING WBCCI AND TO GET Leo G RE-INSTATED!

I'm a patient person, but from where I come from, you don't solicit funds for one purpose, then spin around and change course and expect that the original contributors will remain happy with this new path...one that ostensibly does not require the funds that were originally donated.

Am I missing something here????????????

Some straight answers will suffice nicely!
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug&maggie View Post
... but they that were going to be the Plaintiffs and responsible for paying for this suit over time have chosen a different path.
As a contributor to DW, lewster was a member of DW.
That was the only requirement.

As a member of DW, lewster would have therefore been considered one of the plaintiffs
and would have been one of the ones "responsible for paying this suit over time."

When did lewster "choose a different path"?
What happened to the rights of the DW contributors?
How can you solicit funds for one purpose and then decide to go in a completely different direction without telling anyone?
How can the people involved with this be trusted now?
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Old 08-28-2010, 03:33 PM   #865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
good choice.

but finding out what REALLY did happen, what really IS happening, and what really WILL happen still matters...

so does the money taken from members and solicited HERE.

the mess needs cleaning up, that still matters.

and there is NO PROOF it's over, only the few posts by those now HOLDING the money...

that's the point, as is reINstatement, as is a REAL effort to change the wb'....

the SELF PROCLAIMED poster in this thread....

is no leader, no visionary, and with NO RECORD of ever helping the wb' GET to the next level.

as posted earlier the SCHeeeeME was or became a ruse and now the ruser is gonna serve the membership?

eye dunt think sew...

cheers
2air'
Valid points and an interesting story yet to unfold.

Got my slippers and popcorn.
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Old 08-28-2010, 03:45 PM   #866
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Valid points and an interesting story yet to unfold. Got my slippers and popcorn.
and bigdaddy m'bluez post is even more valid'er-est....

it is down right satisfactual!

it is good right down to the last notion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistral blue View Post
...How can the people involved with this be trusted now?
______

like ALL wb things the 3 key notions here are ...

follow the money, follow the money, follow the money.
__________

now go back and reconsider the story told with this IMAGINARY possible senario...

the elected wb' leadership has been dealing with a terrorist group of renegade wb'ers...

they decided to NEGOTIATE with the terrorist.

they GIVE the big T a seat at their table, and suspend NORMAL committee membership requirements...

they then operate ON this committee with the ever present threat...

that IF the terrorist aren't happy with the outcome, the legal action will resume?

while i have NO regard for the wb' bobbleheads,

it' is impossible to imagine them caving AS REPORTED to club hooligans, thugs and lawsuit mongers.

seriously does THAT really seem pausible?

and there should be MINUTES of meetings or plans or official wb' views on all this eventually.
_________

much has been made of the wb' legal expenses this year.

but they've had a LOT of stuff to deal with this year.

exactly HOW MUCH of the legal fees were for THIS ACTION SPECIFICALLY?

no doubt $ was spent on letters to leo, tim and others

and the EXPULSION would have been carefully crafted (costing more money)

but HOW MUCH was really spent dealing DIRECTLY with DW?

follow the money.



cheers
2air'
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Old 08-28-2010, 04:17 PM   #867
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What a cast of characters: IBT, renegade wb'ers, big T, various posters here. Let's lock 'em all (but me) in a room for several weeks (no bathrooms, no food or water) and see who's left alive.

Will it be the chief cannibal who becomes president of the WBCCI?

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Old 08-28-2010, 06:12 PM   #868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
and bigdaddy m'bluez post is even more valid'er-est....


but HOW MUCH was really spent dealing DIRECTLY with DW?

follow the money.



cheers
2air'
From Bob Moss' report it appears that every Caravaner has contributed about $6.00 of their dues on this fiasco. It looks to me like lawsuits aren't benefitting anyone but the lawyers.
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