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Old 08-25-2010, 09:37 AM   #813
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This has become a bad reality show that grows increasingly bizarre.

The kind of extraordinary challenge facing WBCCI is a threat to its existence – even more so in that this new strategy appears to be trying to address problems in the same fashion in which they were created – from the top down.




Perhaps this is another unwelcome observation – but from the outside looking in – it is incredibly apparent – at least to me – that any effort to successfully address WBCCI`s challenges absolutely dictate:
  • a resolution be arrived at from the bottom up – not from the top down
  • a resolution be arrived at through a process that proceeds with absolute transparency and diligence
  • a resolution be arrived at through a process of consultation and involvement of the WBCCI membership.
  • a resolution be arrived at that recognizes there are no sacred cows – WBCCI is likely to go through much more than a simple make-over – it`s vision, mission, structure and operating mechanisms all need to be questioned and validated - by the entire membership – or changed.
The process being suggested does none of this.


Thanks,




Jay
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:41 AM   #814
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skip the legalesse, as useful as reading it might be...

there was no lawsuit,
there is no lawsuit,
there will be no lawsuit.

what happened was THIS LONG THREAD.

with some1 NOT willing to be 'elected' up the ranks or WORKING years for the club...

buying a ticket at the table.

that's really it, nothing else.

oh, yeah MONEY was solicited here and spent.

THAT MONEY was apparently spent for "legal council"...

in other words ADVICE was purchased.

the advice and months of threatsngyrations posted here...

results in a new committee.

with one of the 'advice getters' on it...
_________

game set match, fat lady sings, pull da plug, cue roy and happy trails 2u...

porky pig sez...

Click image for larger version

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ID:	109323

as pointed out repeatedly NOTHING useful for the MEMBERSHIP has happened.

money was collected from the MANY and spent for the benefit of the FEW to buy a place at the table ...

wait that's how club dues are handled in the wb', right?
________

except for 2-3 posts from howieE...

this thread wasIS a ruse.

cheers
2air'
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:42 AM   #815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerJay View Post

The kind of extraordinary challenge facing WBCCI is a threat to its existence – even more so in that this new strategy appears to be trying to address problems in the same fashion in which they were created – from the top down.

The process being suggested does none of this. Jay
It most certainly does, but first the constitution and bylaws need to address that process.

It can't be done as the bylaws stand.
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Old 08-25-2010, 10:27 AM   #816
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Leo, thanks for your input and clarification.

That this lawsuit crashed and burned before it was filed may ultimately have been about the big $$ needed to pursue it. $7500 could be eaten up just in putting a complaint together and getting it filed. Them who are listed as Plaintiffs are ultimately responsible for paying those legal fees at the end of every month. Oops--I think I expressed that very concern back in the beginning.

I have to hope and believe that the IBT/EC7 have read and heard enough of members concerns to seriously look at making needed changes, lest this club also crash and burn. Whether the new committee is going to be effective remains to be seen. All members should do what they can to give it a good and earnest try, IMO.

Bob, you have not been the coolest, most rational and reasonable of heads here. No more pounding of fists and stomping of feet allowed. Get thyself together, please.


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Old 08-25-2010, 10:39 AM   #817
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Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
this thread wasIS a ruse.
But, if so, a pretty good one as it got money from contributers, some action (I'm not saying good action, useless action, bad action of whatever, time will tell on that), lots of ego stroking and posturing, soap opera, and illusions upon illusions.

What were the real goals of the litigation group? To get on a committee? Win a lawsuit? Complain? I don't know and I don't even know if they knew.

There's a strategy somewhere, perhaps well- or ill-formed, and whether the committee approach is a clever tactic or not, I don't know. Perhaps the litigation proponents knew they didn't have enough money to proceed any further and this was the best they could get. Using this Forum to promote doubt and fear in the WBCCI leadership is also a good tactic.

Watching from the outside this mystery wrapped in an enigma (apologies to W. Churchill) is a guilty pleasure akin to watching a collection of grindhouse movies (I ordered an 8 movie collection from the '60's for $12 on Amazon last week—might be better than this thread when they finally arrive).

The committee may or may not do something. If it fails, what next? Or, more importantly, what now? Despite the system set up to prevent change, grassroots organizing to take over units and regions would put pressure on the top dogs. Grassroots organizing is a lot of work, but would put pressure on all involved to get things changing.

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Old 08-25-2010, 10:48 AM   #818
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Funny way to treat a new commitee member

I do find it funny that less than five days ago the WBCCI Website/Forums Commitee members treated a new By-Laws/Constitution Commitee member in the following way:

"Upon login to the Wbcci forums this popup blocker appeared!

You have been banned for the following reason:
Permanent Ban

Date the ban will be lifted: Never

Time for these two guys to step down, I call for their resignation.

Members need access we pay dues for this treatment?????????"


Not sure how we will be able to discuss the issues of the WBCCI on the WBCCI forums when the one of it's new commitee members will "NEVER" be allowed to sign-on to that website again. I guess they didn't get the memo from Norm!







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Old 08-25-2010, 10:54 AM   #819
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Not surprised or "Pro se can you see"

I'm at something of a disadvantage. After 2+ years here, I have a total of two people on my "ignore" list; they are both posting on this thread.

I presume the IBT/WBCCI has legal counsel and someone from the D&O carrier telling them to sit down and try to work this out. It's the old "COD" or "cost of defense" problem. Even a frivilous lawsuit is expensive to defend against. The IBT hasn't given up anything, i.e., agreeing to binding arbitration. There's virtually no risk in giving someone a seat on a committee that has no direct authority to change anything. Making an effort to settle helps the case if a lawsuit occurs. Judges like to see people make a good faith to work out things before they occupy the Court's time... and the preferences of the Court have a funny way of manifesting themselves at trial.

I am bit surprised--after all of the rhetoric--that the potential "plaintiffs" rolled over so quickly and thoroughly. A seat on a committee? I think a good attorney would have been able to get a greater concession, particularly if the legal case had a whit of merit. To me, committees are an "elephant graveyard." It's where good ideas go to die.

As for the sturm und drang, I really don't understand. A number of people (including my friend, Gene) have tried to caution against high expectations for the mythical lawsuit. We have pointed out--in great detail--that the real issues of the IBT and WBCCI are cultural. They aren't something litigation, even if successful, is likely to fix. While communication between the disaffected and the leadership is a good start, both sides must be willing to compromise and change. Even under the best of circumstances, this isn't easy.

Whatever happens, the WBCCI is likely to shrink further. If the old guard holds the line, the club will lose more "new guard" members. If the IBT concedes and compromises, some long-time members will depart. I don't know how you have one club that makes both groups really happy. And given the fallout of the Great Committee Concession, it doesn't seem like "kiss-and-make-up" season.

I suspect some of the consternation is due to the high expectations for the lawsuit. I further suspect that some of its proponents created the impression that their amateur legal acumen would cut through the IBT like a hot knife through butter. I'm not privy to any of those conversations, but it seems some folks feel "played."

We're all adults here, folks. There's been plenty of information about the long awaited lawsuit and many perspectives represented here. As the saying goes, "You pays your money; you takes your chances." If you are unhappy with a particular individual, I very respectfully suggest it's better to address the person individually rather than gather up the torches and pitchforks on this thread.
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Old 08-25-2010, 11:04 AM   #820
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Not sure how we will be able to discuss the issues of the WBCCI on the WBCCI forums when the one of it's new commitee members will "NEVER" be allowed to sign-on to that website again. I guess they didn't get the memo from Norm!
One of the negotiated items needs to be the problems on that web site.
All these problems could probably be solved, or at least greatly reduced by 2 actions.

Re establish the WBCCI forum on a club controlled site.
Remove the moderator priveliges of the person that controls the present site.

At that point perhaps there would be a possibility of meaningful discussion.
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Old 08-25-2010, 11:09 AM   #821
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Exclamation Naysayers

One who frequently engages in excessive complaining, negative banter and/or a genuinely poor and downbeat attitude.

Naysayers are distinguished by their tendency to consistently view the glass half empty, make frequent one-way trips to negative town, and constantly emphasize the worst of a situation.

They have the capacity to rant and whine for hours on end about the most insignificant inconveniences.

They tend to travel solo, but have the keen ability to spread their pessimistic attitude to a group of unsuspecting bystanders and encourage others to employ their mindset.

Naysayers tend to blend in with those around them rather well, granted they have learned over the years to adapt to their surroundings.

However, when the opportunity arises, their true nature will be exposed and they will stop at nothing to exclude others or bring a general sense of negativity to any situation.

Moreover, they are mostly not Wbcci members or can't offer a better alternative.


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Old 08-25-2010, 11:33 AM   #822
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At this point it looks like TAC is a better alternative, even for current WBCCI members.

Jim
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Old 08-25-2010, 11:41 AM   #823
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One who frequently engages in excessive complaining, negative banter and/or a genuinely poor and downbeat attitude.

.
Projection.

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Old 08-25-2010, 11:55 AM   #824
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Projection.

Gene




introjection...

cheers
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Old 08-25-2010, 12:23 PM   #825
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Civility aside, and notwithstanding your emotional state and misstatement of the facts, your approach is/was unwarranted and is counterproductive in any situation where you are attempting to resolve a matter.
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Old 08-25-2010, 12:24 PM   #826
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Leo Leo Leo its not all about you

Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT View Post
I don't believe Michele wrote a single word of this press release.
Incorrect she did!


Quote:
Mr. G declined to participate in a complete sell-out of the process, a complete sell-out of the cause and the core reasons that many members, past members, and non-renewing members donated their money to.
No sell out Leo the lawyer told you that you couldn’t achieve many of your requests in Court.


Quote:
Mr. G is the only one still on track -- I'M STILL HERE! Its whatever was left of Defend Wally, and the coaching that MetroNY leadership received that flipped this effort. I believe it was pure manipulation that sent the original effort, with those original goals, off in another direction.
But the train left the station. The coaching by very astute lawyer(s) who explained what could and couldn’t be achieved and the likely success of the original goals.
Metro NY/DW wouldn’t support your radical position, but did support your reinstatement 110% which you declined.

Quote:
Litigation is all about arming oneself with the cold hard facts, that if presented in a court of law would produce a win……

Defend Wally was relying on me to document and detail every single action on their punch list. That's right, we met with the attorney and the entire weight of their effort immediately fell on my shoulders. What I could document and detail in 200-400 hours would take them a thousand hours plus.
Fact you didn’t produce anything in 10 weeks, the lawyer was complaining about your lack of follow thru, everyone was asking for the docs, they never were done.

Quote:
MetroNY finally tossed us aside this past week (publicly in their just released newsletter). No big surprise though -- when you start receiving emails from your own unit, with an attorney copied in on the emails -- that writing was on the wall
Stop saying you were tossed, you made the choice, you declined.
Emails copied to the lawyer…..because you refuse to relinquish the administration of Metro NY’s web property.

Quote:
Know this -- when a member acting on behalf of the IP contacted Defend Wally / MetroNY back in June, this entire effort folded like a cheap suit in just FOUR days...
Now Leo, you know that’s incorrect

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