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Old 06-03-2010, 11:36 AM   #575
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Originally Posted by Goin camping View Post
The theory of "We have to destroy it to save it." Is an emotional response and I cannot subscribe to it.
.
In the eyes of the silent majority you have summed it up. Just as with any cancer, that you might be clearly aware of, but may have trouble coming to terns with, radical surgery is often the only avenue.

The Membership that desires change has clearly lost next year looking at the slate of officers offered and knowing that no one will be allowed to be presented from the floor. How long are you willing to wait for this so called change from within?

The Club probably has 3 or 4 years of financial reserves, at the current lose rate, before it is clearly bankrupt. During that period the Leadership will continue to take their free World Tours and the Club looses irreplaceable assets such as the Headquarters and a critical mass in membership.

While we are not Doctors and don't play one on television we are sincere in our efforts to save the Club before it is lost.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:51 AM   #576
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Okay, I just have to say this one more time.

As I understand it, ya'll are still waiting for sufficient "pledges" to come in for a retainer to start this---$7500.00, as I understand it. As filing fees are minimal, this $ is primarily for legal fees required just to get started. Once that is gone, and it won't take long, thousands and thousands more $ will be required to keep this going in Federal court.

This said, I'm not negating that there are some legitimate issues. I just don't see filing a lawsuit as a realistic means to an end.

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Old 06-03-2010, 12:24 PM   #577
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Maggie your assumption is incorrect, but we will not discuss those details in a public forum, WBCCI monitoring this thread like a hawk.

Wait until you read the complaint then it will be clear as to how the suit will change things

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Old 06-03-2010, 12:31 PM   #578
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One other point that you should be aware of is WBCCI has not reached out to anyone from Defend Wally or our attorney to discuss resolving this lawsuit to date.

Also yesterday Leo G's appeal was held, HQ has no decision.
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Old 06-03-2010, 12:48 PM   #579
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My impression is that the present WBCCI leaders don't care much what nonmembers think. That is a bad way to attract new members. But if you represent the insurgents, it seems they don't care what nonmembers think either. But if the organization is to survive, it has to attract new members, even ones that disagree with you.

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Old 06-03-2010, 01:23 PM   #580
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First, thanks to Howie for sending me a gracious PM thanking me for keeping this thread prominent... an advocate of the "all publicity is good publicity" school of thought, it would seem. I can no longer read Bob's comments (having just given him the honor of being the second person on my "ignore" list), but based on Gene's response, it would seem he expressed a similar sentiment.

This thread is a Rorschach ink blot test of sorts. Everyone sees the picture they are predisposed to see. Those who support the lawsuit see the number of "views" as proof of widespread interest. Those against the lawsuit see the large number of posts by a relatively small number of users as proof that the discontent is narrow. Since everyone thinks the thread--in one way or another--proves their point, they are delighted people like me are keeping this up front. You are welcome.

Consider this, though. If you had just bought an Airstream--new or used--and stumbled onto this site... would reading this thread make you more or less interested in joining the WBCCI? "We're suing the evil overlords of the Club because we're saving it.... so join us!" or "We know our galactic club masters are evil, but they are old and will die soon.... so join us!"

Where do I sign?

Gene, as he often is, is right. The club dies without new members... unless the current blue beret wearers have discovered the secret of immortality and haven't told anyone. The problem is that--as far as I can tell--the people who so desparately want to be members of the WBCCI are already members. For the people who have no pre-existing emotional attachment to red numbers or blue berets or current members, what's the attraction? How many people want to join a club that's embroiled (or about to be embroiled) in internecine ligitation?

This thread is more than just a discussion about the potential litigation. It's a window into the dysfunction of the WBCCI. Some of the people reading this thread, new owners, potential members, people who've never worn a beret, they don't have preconceptions. They don't have an innate desire to join, an inherent loyalty to the club or a burning desire to write a check for $75 and hope things will get better. The longer the conflict drags on, the less attractive the club becomes. The less attractive the club becomes, the fewer new members join.
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Old 06-03-2010, 01:24 PM   #581
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Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
One other point that you should be aware of is WBCCI has not reached out to anyone from Defend Wally or our attorney to discuss resolving this lawsuit to date.

I may be missing something here, but how does one reach out to resolve a lawsuit that has yet to be filed or shown to exist? Moreover, if WBCCI is watching this as closely as you suggest, I am sure they'd be receptive to the phone ringing inbound. Not everyone has to bow to you and your cronies Bob. IIRC, you are one of a few leading this charge. You and your legal team could also pick up a phone too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
Wait until you read the complaint then it will be clear as to how the suit will change things

.

That's just it Bob, we've all been waiting for you and your henchmen since 03-02-2010, 11:14 AM the time stamp of the OP of this thread. A quarter of a year now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Goin camping

The theory of "We have to destroy it to save it." .


Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
Defend Wally never took that position
.


Though clearly it's not the stated position, in fact that is precisely what very well may happen.


In the end this pretty much sums it up best:

Quote:
Originally Posted by hampstead38 View Post
These long-term members are unhappy enough to share their feelings quietly or "one-to-one" but they lack the--whatever--to express these feelings publicly? I apparently underestimated the mystical power of the red numbers.

In the words of the immortal Inigo Montoya, let me sum up.

The alleged lawsuit--which doesn't really exist yet and which the IBT has promised to fight if it does--is representing not only the shouting critics but a secret number of whispering malcontents. The exact number of people will only known when "Leo" finishes the map and it will only be shared with holders of the secret decoder ring. The lawsuit, if filed, must be funded. If funded, it must be successful. If successful, it must radically change the leadership structure of the IBT in a way that not only satisfies a majority of members but resolves the other issues with the club including the budget deficit.

Somehow, Bob's involvement is beginning to make sense to me.

...and before you send me another PM Bob or thank me publicly for bumping the thread, I'll simply say you're welcome in advance so that the 15-20 active folks who really care and post here can get some new things to grin about...but wait, you and your crew have me on the ignore list, so I guess this is all for not and prob drops the 15-20 folks down to 5-8!

Time to put up or shut up bud...plain and simple. If yer gonna do it, do it, but you talk in circles with ZERO action to date. I have no doubt you'll eventually do something. How grandiose and successful, only time will actually tell, but folks love an underdog story, which yours clearly falls into that category. Until then, all I hear and see from you and your crowd is this Bob:

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Old 06-03-2010, 01:42 PM   #582
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Another point about litigation. People who bring lawsuits are often angry—sometimes with good reason, sometimes because they are angry people who see slights and insults that aren't there or would be ignored by most people.

It's okay to be properly angry, it's a normal response to being treated unfairly, but being angry means reason is compromised. That's why it is advised not be be your own lawyer (or spokesman for that matter). A lawyer's job is to act with reason and not adopt the anger of the client. Sometimes it is beneficial for a lawyers to act angry, but not to be angry.

I think it would be beneficial to the prospective litigants to consider that and ask their lawyer to do the posting or just to let any possible posts to sit for a few days while you consider whether they would advance your cause.

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Old 06-03-2010, 02:03 PM   #583
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Gene

As often your comments are quite insightful and well intended.

Yes this thread is an open discussion and yes some on both sides are angry. Many are angry have attempted to deal with the problems of the Club through the narrowly defined avenues intended to stop and change within the Club. I can't speak for all on either side as to how they will conduct themselves once this is in court. However there will be a filter in place, namely the Lawyer, that if chosen well will contribute the restraint you mention.

I started this thread and given the chance I will start another thread clearly dedicated to conveying accurate information, not disclosing anything still before the court, as it becomes available. It is ashamed that such disclosure will not available directly from the Leadership.
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Old 06-03-2010, 02:26 PM   #584
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Another point about litigation. People who bring lawsuits are often angry—sometimes with good reason, sometimes because they are angry people who see slights and insults that aren't there or would be ignored by most people.

It's okay to be properly angry, it's a normal response to being treated unfairly, but being angry means reason is compromised.

Gene
And with that said because there are people that are upset and angry, being angry and treating others poorly because you are angry only means this thread will be shut down and restrictions will be placed on users that can not control how they post.

So a recap of items that we will not tolerate -
Name calling
Threats of physical or other violence
Flaming
Baiting
Or other not nice posting.

The above list is not inclusive of everything. And if you are not sure if the post is NOT NICE then error on the side of better behavior and don't post.

We are up for an open discussion. We will not tolerate poor behavior. Either in posting to threads or PMing using the AirForums PM system. Thanks for keeping it passionate and with courtesy.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
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Old 06-03-2010, 06:21 PM   #585
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Old 06-03-2010, 07:36 PM   #586
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Have no doubt that members support this and that funds were collected and that a lawyer is hired and on this. Also have no doubt you will all receive open updates when they are available. I think the plaintifs have been as open as possible, far more responsive to you than the other side. Am I correct? Twink tap your foot, sound your horn wiggle your injustice but it is coming when it comes. We certainly wouldn't keep anyone dancing on a string. When we know, you will soon know and that is the truth. Now go ask the IBT where their answers are. Oh that's right, they need a special forum so they won't be attacked, oh wait they have one. Don't hold your breath for their side of the issues. We are still waiting for leadership to particpate on the new forums. But then you could be more cordial for the side that tries hard to oblige answering your questions. I am sure you would give up and go home like everyone else did on WBCCI forums if you knew that you would not receive attention. Thank heavens for free expression and Air Forums!!
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Old 06-03-2010, 08:16 PM   #587
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I'm an ex-member and don't want to be an ex. I'm an Airstreamer. However, I am also an accountant by profession and it offends me that the management of an old, respected organization is willing to spend down its capital for the benefit of those who are charged with its trust. (Running a deficit budget without investing in future increases in income is, by definition, spending down your capital. Unless, of course, you are the government and can print your own money).

I am also offended by its misuse of a wonderful communication device, the wbcci website. Given its rigorous moderation (a misuse of the word, if ever there was one) members and non-members who have concerns are not permitted to publish, much less persons (such as myself) who would like to express concerns without the expectation of being supermoderated away.

So I remain sad; i have contributed to the lawsuit because to pay my dues to wbcci would be interpreted as a vote for the current management.

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Old 06-03-2010, 08:58 PM   #588
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The previous post was the most dispassionate and logical statement of what's going wrong that I have seen posted here, period.

Thank you, Pat.
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