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Old 03-03-2010, 10:31 AM   #43
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An issue here that no one has commented on are the expenditures relating to the new tactic aimed to suppressing members thoughts. To date 4 individuals have received threatening letters from the law firm of Dinsmore and Shohl demanding they cease certain action. Do you think those letters were FREE and do you think once they believe they have gotten away with them that they will stop sending them.

I am sure if my letter and Bob's has not yet been typed they have gone to the typing pool.

Our money and our memberships are on the line here. We did not take these steps lightly or without counsel.

Members have got to begin to look at these issues for what there are. A Cancer that has metastasized. Some individuals address that issue with denial and wait and see. Some chose to take the radical approach aimed at preserving life. Change is going to come out of this and it is not going to take 7 years for the mortality rate to accomplish it.
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Old 03-03-2010, 10:32 AM   #44
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Big bucks before you hit the courtroom

In civil cases you need to be prepared for deposition costs. Wether it's yours or theirs. Usually it's both.

Depo's require the attorney's, a stenographer and all of the parties and witnesses and all of them but you them get paid to be there.

Then there is discovery. Thats more lawyer time and costs. Sometimes parties feel they did not get all they asked for so it's off to court to sort that out. More dough. Don't forget the cost of providing the discovery request info.

Are you flatrating the lawyer fees or on the billable hour plan?

Lots of money will be spent before you see the inside of a courtroom. Just be prepared for it.
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Old 03-03-2010, 11:20 AM   #45
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I Should not but I have too ask. If the current burn rate is maintained and member loss,and dues are withheld at what point in time will the WBCCI actually go bankrupt. I once wanted to join. Now I dont think I have enough time left.
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Old 03-03-2010, 12:51 PM   #46
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LI Pets/Bob,

First off, if you are going to modify/add emphasis to a "quote" of mine, you need to state it and show it as such.

Case law is interpretation and application of existing law. If there is a "legal team" working on this who have found "substantial case law", that raises even more questions.

I am stating my opinion, based on what I know and believe to be true, and my perception of what is being represented here, that's all.

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Old 03-03-2010, 01:59 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
Do you think those letters were FREE and do you think once they believe they have gotten away with them that they will stop sending them.
Actually I'm not sure any of us are qualified to say what WBCCI paid for these letters to be sent. For all we know it could have been done gratis, reduced cost or full price. As to what they believe or not, again, we're guessing here, but fact seems to point to many letters being sent out (perhaps a bulk discount) . It would now seem that WBCCI is in fact protecting it's brand. You cannot fault a .org for doing that. Many sites, companies, etc, do the exact same thing. Now you can say "yea, but two years ago they didn't care"(opinion), well, they seem to clearly care now.

I am in full agreement with Goin Camping this is far from a slam dunk folks, but I understand your need to try.
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Old 03-03-2010, 02:21 PM   #48
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It would now seem that WBCCI is in fact protecting it's brand. You cannot fault a .org for doing that.
...Cannot fault them??? I sure can! Do they need to protect the brand from being used by members? Or are they just using that excuse to harass members that don't agree with the antics of the IBT?
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Old 03-03-2010, 03:23 PM   #49
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Ok... we may need to go back in time to picture what is really happening.
Few years ago the IBT came with the idea to change the name of the Club... Leo (with others) stood up and started Save Wally... (roughly). Result : name change failed.
Then happened the try to let Non AS Moho enter the Club, because AS would not manufacture MOHO anymore.
Again Leo, with others, like Bob T, stood up. Result : non AS moho within WBCCI failed.
Leo as Bob T, wanted to run from the floor for an International position...
Both did express their views.
Then started the grievance dance...

What I see here is the IBT wants to get rid of members that spread the words on what is going on in the club and how.
So sure what the IBT wants to have a free ride... and I wouldn't be surprised, if they could get rid of him, and all the ones that don't follow them like shadow, to see again the MOHO crap coming again.

And they distorted the rules to put pressure on those members. Tom C said it wouldn't print resume from people running from the floor at the club expenses... I bet anyone here, that it wouldn't had cost 150K like they spend on the Club expenses...

Interest of the Club is far from their concern. All they do or wanted to was to ensure their own privileges.

So their decisions are not only wrong they are made on the purpose to protect their own interests. Nothing to do with being incompetent. At least I could have accept that.
But they do know what they are doing.
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Old 03-03-2010, 03:33 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie View Post
Actually I'm not sure any of us are qualified to say what WBCCI paid for these letters to be sent. For all we know it could have been done gratis, reduced cost or full price. As to what they believe or not, again, we're guessing here, but fact seems to point to many letters being sent out (perhaps a bulk discount)
Law firms the size that they are using does nothing gratis, they have liability on anything they put their name to.
They need to do some research on what the client is asking them.

Someone from the club doesn't call a 400 member law firm up and say hey do me a favor can you send this guy a cease and desist letter. That's trademark, that's money.

It will pass thru several lawyers hands before it goes out each one of their time clock clicking away.

My guess is those letters cost $750- $1500 each.

Now what if that person answers that letter and requires another reply.....do the math......it costs.

Howie is correct it is costing the membership money.
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Old 03-03-2010, 03:39 PM   #51
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LI Pets/Bob,
I am stating my opinion, based on what I know and believe to be true, and my perception of what is being represented here, that's all.
Maggie
Maggie I asked you if you had a better solution, you failed to reply to that question therefore, I assume you do not.

Support your best option.
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Old 03-03-2010, 05:02 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by byamcaravanner View Post
...Cannot fault them??? I sure can! Do they need to protect the brand from being used by members? Or are they just using that excuse to harass members that don't agree with the antics of the IBT?
Um, Steve, better check your facts....Rob got a letter, he's not a member. Carol got one...she's not a member. Leo got a letter, he's not a member. I don't know who else got letters, but it doesn't matter. WBCCI has ownership of some things. They can do what they like with it. Our like or dislike of it is irrelevant and only shows how very emotionally charged this subject is for some.

LI, I'm not going to get far into it because neither of us know for sure what they paid. Your guess is just that, a guess. Might be right, might be wrong. I would not be comfortable putting any data out I wasn't sure on...isn't that what you told me a few posts back?!
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Old 03-03-2010, 05:27 PM   #53
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I saw those letters they were not true trademark infringements, they would not succeed but they went to laymen and they caved not knowing their rights.

They were just bluffs
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Old 03-03-2010, 07:57 PM   #54
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Um, Steve, better check your facts....Rob got a letter, he's not a member. Carol got one...she's not a member. Leo got a letter, he's not a member. I don't know who else got letters, but it doesn't matter. WBCCI has ownership of some things. They can do what they like with it. Our like or dislike of it is irrelevant and only shows how very emotionally charged this subject is for some.

I didn't get a letter. Did I? Should I have checked the mail today? Wha'dIdo now?

And it isn't so much that I am not a member this year yet, it's just that I am still in between making the payments.The dog ate my checkbook. (I was waiting on the Nova charter.)
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:12 PM   #55
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Check your mail daily. If you get a letter that will confirm my long time suspicion that Silvertwinkie is a proxy for the IBT. For someone without a dog in the fight he has an above average interest in things and a strong bias to degrade this effort.
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Old 03-03-2010, 09:02 PM   #56
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Carol
Check your mail daily. If you get a letter that will confirm my long time suspicion that Silvertwinkie is a proxy for the IBT. For someone without a dog in the fight he has an above average interest in things and a strong bias to degrade this effort.
This is almost comical. Me a proxy....talk about conspiracy theory. Carol posted something somewhat recently saying she was asked to do something, take something off....I thought it was a letter, but maybe it was an email. I do distinctly recall that Carol had mentioned she got something from someone.

Degrade? I told you all to go for it, see where the chips fall. I like others don't think you have a prayer, but as I said you gotta do what you gotta do.

Proxy for the IBT...you all crack me up. I suppose Goin Camping and anyone else that doesn't agree is part of this groundswell too right.
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