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Old 05-26-2010, 12:43 PM   #533
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From my point of view these folks flat out ignore every objection, and every protest, there's an excuse or somebody else to pass the buck on. The two lines they always fall back on is that "young people aren't joiners," and "it's everybody's job to recruit."
I don't have a dog in this fight as Liz and I left the WBCCI after only one year. The club (at least at the top level) seemed to be way too old fashioned for our tastes. We just wanted to go camping, and occasionally meet up with like minded folks, and have a good time. We weren't interested in the politics, nor the pompous ceremonial crapola.

Anyway, the reason I'm posting this is the "young people aren't joiners" statement, aka the default position when a clubs membership hits a critical low level. To that I say Bu11$h!t ! "Young" people join organizations just as much as any other age group. The trick is, if you want a younger demographic, you have to actually TRY to appeal to them. As far as I'm concerned, the WBCCI not only doesn't appeal to "young" people, but you can add this 50+ year old to that list as well.

Rob has the right idea with TAC. Get together with a friendly group, dispense with the pagentry, and have a good time. Last I read, there were 275 members in TAC already - how many of those are former WBCCI members that didn't renew?

See ya'll at the Bash!
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Old 05-26-2010, 12:58 PM   #534
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As far as I'm concerned, the WBCCI not only doesn't appeal to "young" people, but you can add this 50+ year old to that list as well.

See ya'll at the Bash!
I'll make 70 in a week and a half and in the current form they don't appeal to me either. The reason I am pushing this issue is so that when I get older there will be a Club worth belonging to.

Leaving for the Bash early on the 24th.
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Old 05-26-2010, 04:52 PM   #535
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There are plenty of younger folks who are joiners, what they are not is subservient and open to shut up and do what your told hierarchies.
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Old 05-26-2010, 05:30 PM   #536
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"Stand down," is how they quiet you at their meeting. Picture standing and waiting in front of the Wizard to make an appeal, like Dorothy and friends, only they are many (20-30 strong) up above you, on stage, and you are alone below at the podium, allowed to speak only if and when and for as long as they see fit. "Time is out friends," and you are done, whether you had your turn or during your turn. Or it may be time for the cookie break or they smell the roast beef and have to go. It's just that easy for them to call a halt to discussion. I tell you, the meetings are quite the education, and not of a good kind. Or maybe like the last meeting they simply break new ground without constitutional or procedural basis and adjourn to private chambers and finish the new business of addressing a half dozen different motions that various members or you may have brought before them, all without you or the membership privy to proceedings of our club's new business, all secreted away from the simulcast, and without disclosing what the heck just happened! I am still scratching my head over how leadership got away with that and what was done behind closed doors. Coincidently it was all the motions about grievances and how they are handled. ZAP GONE POOF They made it go away. That was easy enough remedy, wasn't it? It sure is convenient to be able to make and apply law on the fly and have friends in high places, isn't it?

Hold your WBCCI leadership accountable! Making up rules as they go and using them against members and holding members feet to the fire while they engage in wrongful and unconstitutional actions is inappropriate and unacceptable.

There are young people in the WBCCI but it is the units that recruit and retain them. There could be more if the IBT wasn't chasing more away than they attract or charging an arm and a leg to join the international before you can join the unit. Taxation without representation. Enough is enough and they are finally called on it.
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Old 05-26-2010, 06:00 PM   #537
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Hey Carol,

I have a suggestion if anyone gets a chance at a microphone in gillette, is stand on a step-ladder looking down while speaking to IBT's EC-7 members.
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Old 05-26-2010, 06:02 PM   #538
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Whats to keep a group of members from organizing their own independent meeting at the rally to discuss what is going on?
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Old 05-26-2010, 06:50 PM   #539
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Whats to keep a group of members from organizing their own independent meeting at the rally to discuss what is going on?
Boondocker

The problem is most of the members in attendance at the International will be of the mind set that accepts this foolishness. and want it to continue.

With the exception of the members that read threads here I would venture to say 80+% of the general membership has no idea where their dues go or are aware of the complete disregard for Roberts Rules and how these meeting are conducted.

Short of a conclusion of the suit I would say you will never here an open mike secession at a Mid Winter or International meeting again.

They now know people were actually listening to those meeting and not liking what they heard, so never again.
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Old 05-26-2010, 07:01 PM   #540
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Another Club "tidbit".

I belonged to the WBCCI club for over 20 years.

I never went on a rally with a trailer.

However, once in a while, I gave a program on some of the "how to's" as well as problem prevention or solving, at a rally, as well as periodically being supportive.

Since I do not have the time to be active in the WBCCI club, I resigned early this past January.

In short order, I received a check for $ 55.00, from headquarters, dated January 7, 2010, as a refund for my membership.

I signed the check and mailed it to the local WBCCI group, as a gift.

Today, May 26, 2010, I received the same check back in the mail, from the local group.

A hand written letter came with the check.

The letter said,

"Thanks for the offer of this check. The bank won't allow us to deposit it to our account. Hope all is OK. Thanks again.

It was signed by the treasurer.

Wonder what that's all about, and/or the rules it violates.

Andy
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Old 05-26-2010, 07:38 PM   #541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested View Post
"Stand down," is how they quiet you at their meeting.

I can not agree more with some the preceeding posts in this thread.... if I were going to the International next month, I'd be getting in touch beforehand not with the IP or IBT, but with their Parlimentarian.

I'd be really interested in testing that individual's actual, working knowledge of:
  • the Club "rules" as they might or might not actually exist;
  • Roberts Rules of Order, Newly Revised, 10th Edition (RONR) ( actually last revised, I believe, in the year 2000 ? );
  • their own actual responsibility, and scope of authority as Parliamentarian; and,
  • their own culpability in these proceedings as a member and Club Officer;
and if they understand the phrase "Point of Order, Mr. President.... "

of course, anyone speaking that phrase must, in turn, have at least some idea of what they are saying! Parliamentary procedure is not usually a Level 1 course, my friends!

my best wishes and support to anyone bold enough to stand in defiance of " the Wizard " in Gillette!!! you're likely to have at least a small to medium sized cheering section this year!

we all know that Dorothy's story had a happy ending; perhaps those seeking to force a positive change in the Club this year will have one, too.

best,


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Old 05-26-2010, 07:46 PM   #542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
I belonged to the WBCCI club for over 20 years.

I never went on a rally with a trailer.

However, once in a while, I gave a program on some of the "how to's" as well as problem prevention or solving, at a rally, as well as periodically being supportive.

Since I do not have the time to be active in the WBCCI club, I resigned early this past January.

In short order, I received a check for $ 55.00, from headquarters, dated January 7, 2010, as a refund for my membership.

I signed the check and mailed it to the local WBCCI group, as a gift.

Today, May 26, 2010, I received the same check back in the mail, from the local group.

A hand written letter came with the check.

The letter said,

"Thanks for the offer of this check. The bank won't allow us to deposit it to our account. Hope all is OK. Thanks again.

It was signed by the treasurer.

Wonder what that's all about, and/or the rules it violates.

Andy
Andy,

It is very simply the banking regulations. The bank for the unit does not know that the person who endorsed the check over is the person to which the check is payable. One way around the problem is to have your signature guaranteed by your bank and then send the check back. Much easier to deposit the check into your account and write the unit a new check.

Bill
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Old 05-26-2010, 09:06 PM   #543
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jm2 has a good idea if I understand it—learn parliamentary procedure. Robert's Rules were written after the Civil War to organize the rules that were generally used in meetings. The idea is to run a meeting in an orderly manner that protects the idea of democracy. If you understand them, and I'm not saying they are all that easy to understand, you can cause some grief to the people running roughshod over free and open debate and decision making.

But, an organization can adopt rules that supersede Robert's Rules and make it hard for people to speak freely and to make it easy for the leaders to be undemocratic.

Nonetheless, such leaders often don't understand either Robert's Rules or the organization's rules very well and people well schooled in both may be able to cause some democracy to break out.

I have read most of Robert's Rules and it can give me a headache even though interpreting rules and statutes was my profession. Getting people to run a meeting properly is not easy, even people who want to be democratic but forget themselves. Knowing when to make points (they take precedence over any other business) is helpful. A point of order is to raise a question of the order or rules being used. A point of information is to ask what's going on or for more information about a motion or action being taken. The fun one can be the point of personal privilege used when you have been personally insulted; you have to right to challenge that. I've never had to use that one even though I have been insulted, it just didn't seem worth it. You have to use these judiciously so you don't come across as a complainer.

When the chair makes a decision about procedure, you can appeal the decision of the chair—it takes a 2/3 vote to overturn the decision. The parliamentarian does not make decisions; he advises the chair.

The trouble with all this is that this is for a plenary meeting—one where everyone at the meeting has the right to speak and the entire group can vote. At a board meeting, generally only the board members can make these points, appeals and such. A board can allow members to speak and to limit the amount of time alloted—this is often done by boards, at shareholder's meetings, by town and city governments. I have no idea how WBCCI meetings are conducted, but if there are meetings where everyone may speak and possibly vote, then you have a chance to do something. Otherwise you have to get someone on their board (I guess it's the IBT) who understands procedure very well.

Gene
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Old 05-26-2010, 11:05 PM   #544
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I hate politics!

Sorry I even stumbled across this thread. Has me rethinking my WBCCI Membership altogether.
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Old 05-26-2010, 11:11 PM   #545
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Sorry I even stumbled across this thread. Has me rethinking my WBCCI Membership altogether.
Then ignore it and enjoy the friends in your unit.

Bill
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Old 05-27-2010, 01:02 PM   #546
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Or embrace it and fight to change! ...because $55.00 dollars and rising is your cost to join International before your additional cost to a local unit can be accepted. More than likely you will not be shunned by any Airstreamers in your local, member or not... Or sup it up as most WBCCI'ers do and let it go because your compadres are so wonderful. AND SO WE ARE!!
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