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Old 05-14-2010, 08:04 PM   #491
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This thread and discussion is what Siskell and Ebert would refer to as... "riveting".

Operation "Save Rudy" Strike Team (charter member)

Yes, I am still working on it.
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:02 PM   #492
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Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
I stand corrected. But Madonna is so yesterday, almost like Lawrence Welk.

You never see the two of them together.


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Old 05-14-2010, 10:28 PM   #493
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Well done, 2 Air. Well done.
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Old 05-14-2010, 11:03 PM   #494
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Collier's May newsletter

In the spirit 2 air's most recent post Tom Collier IBT president addresses some of the points discussed in his most recent May newsletter that can be read here ...

He deftly deflects WBCCI morale issues to the UNITS without addressing the real problem at hand, fiscal mismanagement and closed communications
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Old 05-14-2010, 11:09 PM   #495
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And more light on the subject from the Denver Colorado Unit newsletter for May.

By Forrest M., Unit Trustee & Past Unit President
Will the WBCCI be Sued In Federal Court? At our April luncheon, several members asked me if it was true that the WBCCI is going to be sued, and what did I think about it. If you are just now learning about this then your likely reaction is, "What's THAT all about?"
In short, it is the culmination of a long brewing discontent with the way International officers run the club, and frustration with not being able to effect change from within the organization. It could happen. The group, composed of club members, has not only announced its intent to sue, but have collected pledges and money so that they can proceed. What does it mean to us? Most DENCO members only feel the pain when it is time to pay dues. International dues are the lion's share of what you pay, and these went up this year, and are scheduled to go up again next year. For many of us however, dues are not a deal breaker, but occasionally we feel the effects of International Bylaw & Policy. This happened at our Yuma Rally when a visiting International officer demanded that some old friends of our Unit, who were no longer members, had to leave. That created some hurt feelings that could have been avoided, if there had been some patience and confidence in DENCO leaders to rectify the situation. Was there a rule violation? Technically, yes, but a rigid disciplinary attitude doesn't take into consideration mitigating factors, such as the fact that the Yuma rally isn't entirely an Airstream or WBCCI event. It is a blended event and other brands of RV's park in the same field and share the same event and facilities as our group. The one guaranteed result of that hard line approach is that those old friends will never return to our club with an Airstream.
"If the trend continues, the WBCCI will
expire or fragment into small independent clubs
sometime in the next decade."
Rules are like tools, there are appropriate and inappropriate uses and a hammer isn't the best tool for measuring or finding balance. There is the old Japanese saying that, "the nail that sticks up will be hammered down." In other words, the Japanese are homogeneous and value conformity. That also seems to be the prevailing WBCCI philosophy.
Yet, the WBCCI is steadily declining in vitality and members. In 2001, the WBCCI treasury had about $3 million, but today it stands at about $1 million. Membership was around 9,000 but today it has shrunk to about 6,000. If the trend continues, the WBCCI will expire or fragment into small independent clubs sometime in the next decade.
In contrast, the DENCO Unit, the Four Corners Unit, the Washington DC Unit, and other similar units, have growth and vitality because they are pluralistic in their makeup and flexible in attitude.
Paradoxically, the WBCCI's response has been to file grievances against those who are critical and outspoken of the leadership or of their decisions and policies. Bob T., a 32-­year member, was suspended while he was Region 1 President. Leo G., past Metropolitan New York Unit President, has been expelled (and has since been served legal notices). Kimber M., Vintage Advantage VAC Newsletter Editor, and her husband, Tim K., VAC Webmaster & past VAC Membership Chairman, have been harrassed and threatened (with legal notices and anonymous phone calls) to such an extent that they have indicated they will not renew their membership. The last straw for Rob B., Past-­President of the Washington DC Unit, was being censored on the WBCCI member forum. Rob has resigned and formed his own club (and has since also been served threatening legal notices). All of this and more, just in the past year or so. Even our own Region President and Past DENCO President, Janie L., has suffered from similar rough and insensitive treatment.
What all of these members have in common is that they are all leaders, contributing members, good citizens, avid Airstreamers, and each was censored or berated for expressing their opinion. The WBCCI leadership would no doubt reply that it was not their opinion, but their manner of expressing their opinion that got them into trouble. In other words they've been labeled loud and brash. Well, that's what many people do when they are frustrated — they yell.
"The International organization
has started to eat its own…"
What else can you expect when the hammer is brought out of the toolbox to fix disappointment, exasperation and weariness? So, now bloodletting has begun. The International organization has started to eat its own and in response, "A growing number of the general membership intends to bring a Federal lawsuit against the WBCCI. The suit seeks a return to fiscal responsibility in light of current economic times, [and] return to the use of accepted Parliamentarian Practices in decision-making."
The additional fallout from all of this is that for every leader who is expelled, suspended or resigns other members go with them, and the resulting animosity discourages others from joining. It almost seems as though the WBCCI is intent on driving current and potential members away, and that may actually be the case since an International Past President proposed that our club should be more concerned with quality members than with quantity. In fact, the WBCCI Airstream Forum Administrator presents an argument supporting that viewpoint in a thread he created titled, "Quality over Quantity."
"…an International Past President proposed that
our club should be more concerned with
quality members than with quantity."
THE alarming question is what is a quality member and who makes that decision? Were the fore-­mentioned members NOT quality? How about you, or me? Are we quality, or not? For instance, the Forum Administrator labeled me a "straw man" — a person who acts as a front for somebody else's questionable activities — for writing that his argument is repulsive, discriminatory and elitist.
Regardless of which side might win, the club's leadership or the plaintiff's, it will amount to a pyrrhic victory .. a contest won at such a great cost that it is tantamount to defeat.
This is why your vote at the May Maintenance Rally is so important. At that rally, you will be asked to vote for a slate of candidates selected by the International Nominating Committee. Among those, is a member of our Unit, Bob M. for Treasurer, who is an actual Certified Public Accountant — a qualification that position requires, and Bob is the right man, in the right place, at the right time.
However, also in the slate is a nominee for Nominating Committee Richard H. Some of you may remember him from the IBT meeting at the 2008 International Rally. This is the officer who publicly chastised then VAC 1st VP, and DENCO Unit Past President, Shari D., for the content of the VAC annual report .. something she had no control over. His conduct was so outrageous that later he was directed to apologize.
Now, three years later, the WBCCI has forgotten or forgiven Richard's actions, and has decided he should be on the committee that selects our Club leadership. It's been suggested that members should vote "no," but the only way to vote against a nomination is to nominate someone else and vote for them.
"…the only way to vote against a nomination is
to nominate someone else and vote for them."
That person is Ed E., Past WI Unit President and Past VAC President. He has agreed to run for that position from the floor of the Delegates Meeting. However, he needs your vote so that we can instruct our Delegate to make and/or support Ed's nomination.
Also, up for your consideration will be a motion to amend the WBCCI Constitution. The full text is on page 5 of our February newsletter. A "yes" vote on this motion will help it go forward to other Units to consider and vote on. If it is ratified, it will be a tool that every Unit can use to put an end to the heavy-handed abuses that are killing our Club.
You may download and view the original article (pages 7&8) from the WBCCI Denver Colorado Unit May 2010 Newsletter here:

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Old 05-14-2010, 11:45 PM   #496
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There has been a lot of grand standing going on. A few caustic remarks and the baby got thrown out with the bath water. Getting back on topic and not talking about people talking about topic...

I don't know if you listened to the mid-winter simulcasts but here was a response I had made in the request for open letters to the WBCCI. Now a little dated, but will show the kind of concern that I had with the results of the IBT discussion of dues increases. After being glued to the computer to take in the multiday simulcast I was very disappointed in the results and the tone of the the leadership. A really big issue was when the many various motions on the recent flurry of grievances by different authors were combined into one order of new business and taken and addressed secreted away in close door session with no discussion session or way of knowing what had just transpired, which is a serious deviation from procedure.

An Open Letter to the Membership of the WBCCI
Sounds reasonable to pay as we go. How ever it is that rallies and activities get planned on the local unit level that should be the template for larger rallies and meetings. Keeping it simple and taking the approach to cover the basics and only add to the mix if there is a surplus is the only way to provide for the changing numbers without negatively impacting the club as it gets smaller.

Now we see the club as continuing to get smaller. The IBT continues to see the club growing. I don't think it's negative to be practical and realistic. I rather think it is more harmful to let the club whither and flail rather than to cut drastically and move ahead to the next step of fiscal health and the vitality that responsible change will bring to club morale. And if it takes an emergency meeting to get things straight then so be it. Most large corporations have been shook up. If we are smart we will emerge better and stronger.

Our club can be the best club. It isn't the number of your members that count (well unless you are lifetime leadership for a club the size of 20,000 members) but how much the members enjoy their club that counts. Word of mouth is the best advertising and it doesn't cost a penny. Enthusiasm and variety are key.

Basically during the IBT meetings we heard that the members' "perceived" member value was low to non-existent and then we were told that we are wrong in our own perceptions. There is something very fundamentally wrong with that attitude of leadership. I totally disagree with PIP Franklin, when he asked leadership to stand up and show some gall, I think the IBT is showing plenty of gall. 500 dollars off of Sky Med or a 1000 dollars of a caravan aren't the kinds of benefits that are going to retain or recruit members into the WBCCI, either. Trying to pass on the printing and paper costs of the IBT motions to the entire membership to save Mid-Winter attendants 20 dollars off their rally fee is skewed, while at the same time asking the members to pay 20 dollars more for dues and claiming that's only 4 1/2 chicken nuggets per deim food equation and people ought not to be cheap and whining.

The International Club does not wish to change. But the challenge goes out back to them to do so. It is just not feasible or even possible for membership to support the IBT spending. They can clock time and let their terms of office run out and manage to pass the hard issues onto the next who also in turn tries not to be the one to be held accountable and be the unpopular one to bring down the changes that will adversely affect their friends, but it has to be done, plain and simple.

From someone on the bottom of a bottoms up club I think the leadership must address the serious issues that are causing division and dissatisfaction among the members and just let the membership decide how the club should proceed. It really isn't their job to make those decisions on their own. And it really isn't their money to spend. During times of affluence no one grumbles but when its time to cinch in the belt then all of a sudden problems occur. Balking, delaying, denying are not the responses that will save us.

You can't put off onto the membership to make up the difference and make it right. Only through the wisdom and dedication to the majority of members can the IBT make the situation right. Only through cutting spending can the club be put right. Advertising and membership drives and mentoring all have their place but it is a failure to not accept the reality that this club will continue to get smaller regardless of the best of scenerios. What we can do is to work to keep the loyal member base and make it a great club experience for the unit members, which the leadership is still a part. Their position of service to all the individual members of this club should not be confused nor convoluted with excessive planning for all the privilege and awards of recognition of leadership. That is not the membership's perceived notion of success nor the embodiment of the spirit of volunteerism.

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Old 05-15-2010, 12:04 AM   #497
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allow me 1 more post in this thread this week.

IF the folks trying to 'save leo' has just stated up front the obvious goal it would have been so much better.

for example they COULD have written...

"he's been booted unfairly we're fighting to keep him in the club/unit and we may use the legal system for this."

"it's possible some GENERAL benefits will come from this,

like a CHANGE in how grievances are handled or some other awareness at the leadership level"

"but our REAL intent is too KEEP him in the unit where he's part of our family"

this MIGHT have been a better story and certainly a more HONEST version.

but new yorkers have their own way of staging a street brawl (cue sharks/jets music from west side story)

thanks its' for linking TC may newsletter...

the changes mentioned for the int. rally are TOKEN in terms of $$

but MAJOR in symbolic ways and signal they (he or someone) GET IT on some level.

at least this year.

earlier there was bitch'n about him callng the wyoming gig HIS international....

that wasn't a mistake and needs to be understood, it is HIS international.

these guys slither up the command line and when they REACH the top, that year is THEIR time to shine.

it's a lot like the teen queen gig (that's now history) only for old men and their ladies.

along with the voting/legislative thing it IS what the international has LONG been about...

a spot light, a meal, a dance and an evening gown competition for geezers.

it reads like he is planning to ALTER THAT POMP for 'his international' and that's BIG BIG imo.

of course the real issue is folks WANT an annual national PARTY rally, not a political event.

which means the ENTIRE international menu has got to go OR another FUN THING needs to happen.

there are PLENTY of examples of fun things from the unit level, FORUMS gigs, palOOZA type event and so on.

in many ways the INT body mimics the traditonal UNIT.

and MOST units still operate this way...

1-some1 becomes a Nth vp at their unit level and each year they DON'T piss anyone off, they move UP the vp chain.

2-eventually it's THEIR YEAR to be unit or region pres.

3-that's generally NOT because they did anything heroic beforehand

4-but rather because they did NOTHING 2far outta line while "holding" a lower office.

5-when their year as unit/region PRES happens there are ceremonies and dinners and false accolades.

so the int bobbble heads are simply another LEVEL of this traditional MOOSE club approach.

which means if REAL change is too happen at the TOP...

UNITS must alter how they do these things.

some CLEARLY have but others simply disguise the traditional dance with new music and pirate patches.

the single most useful way to ALTER the club culture is to change the money train.

figure out HOW to alter the written bylaws such that most (ALL) member dues REMAIN at the unit level...

and ever single OTHER issue falls into place.

figuring out how to RUN, truly qualified office candidates from the floor or in some other NON traditional manners is a good thing too.

because it's USEFUL to have people ON the job who actually understand and are capable of DOING the job.

fred's memo is civil and well written.

so it appears folks on differing sides are SORTA listening to each other and posturing in a useful way.

fix HOW the money flows.

THREATENING to have a large chunk of money poured into the legal abyss is ok, maybe...

but actually POURING THE MONEY into that bottomless cup is silly.

all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
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Old 05-15-2010, 01:05 AM   #498
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Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
...Madonna is so yesterday, almost like Lawrence Welk.

Sorry Gene, Lady Gaga was kinda busy.
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Old 05-15-2010, 10:04 AM   #499
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You are to the WBCCI IBT as Aljazeera is to the US... I'm loving this information operations (IO) stuff.. it's a hoot!

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Old 05-15-2010, 10:36 AM   #500
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This thread is about the proposed litigation. At this point, there's been more documentation about the IBT's problems than about the Kennedy assassination. What I'm still waiting for (and will probably never get) is for someone to draw a line between the much-talked-about lawsuit and changes in the WBCCI that address the organization's real problems.

Personally, I don't give the lawsuit good odds, but I'm willing to discuss a hypothetical victory just to get to the point where the WBCCI suddenly becomes a different organization. I'll also assert--once again--that if things are so terrible with the IBT, the unhappy campers should be able to get at least 50 percent of the WBCCI to leave or simply withhold dues for a year.

As long as the IBT believes a majority of members are satisfied with the WBCCI, they will feel as if they hold the moral high ground. Even if they lose in court, they'll quickly point to the membership and say, "Look, our members are happy so the court must be wrong." I don't think a legal victory changes anyone's mind. Worse, if the unhappy campers lose in court, the IBT's grip on the organization will be ironclad. They will vindicated, and vindictive.
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Old 05-15-2010, 12:53 PM   #501
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I think it was mentioned before that the details would not be brought forth in this thread. I am not saavy on how this works but I would equate to bringing a box of receipts to the tax man. The professional will advise and use what he sees fit. And then at that point I would think it is even more important to let the lawyers do their work without showing our hand on the internet.

What was brought forth was the announcement and the update of progress in that the funds have recently been secured to file and of the support shown thus far and by whom, who do outnumber the individuals participating in this thread as is always the case in various threads.

The rest of the posts just show everyone here is having such a good or fulfilling time that we just can't stay away or help from posting to cheer on or to call retreat. Well and then some just like to stop by to stay in the WBCCI fray just to be remembered.

The warnings and suggestions and predictions have mostly been presented convincingly and in good faith. Don't feel as if your participation and comments are not being weighed and considered by many whether they are responded to or not. But conversely, it will have to be acknowleged that what you read here from those supporting the law suit are proceedings that have already happened or been set in motion or is currently in the works so discussion is not going to change that regardless of how persuasive and well meaning and valid your points, and points from others have been.

I think we just have to be respectful of every one's point of view and just be patient to see how it plays out. I think it's preferable and pertinent to speak of all things about WBCCI than some of what has been discussed.

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Old 05-15-2010, 03:05 PM   #502
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I smell "agenda" and it is foul.

Nobody has explained this to me yet.
Why would anyone that is NOT a member in WBCCI care the least bit about this thread?
Of course we all have freedoms to read and post where we choose. I support that and it is great. That is one reason I left the WBCCI Forum because of their censorship policy.
But, why do non-members care about this thread? What is up with that. I just don't understand it. What am I missing?
Joe Colao 50th Anniversary President of Metro NY WBCCI # 30916
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Old 05-15-2010, 03:30 PM   #503
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Joe, so you are accusing some people of "foul" "agenda". But you don't specify this "foul" "agenda", instead choosing to paint with broad and vague strokes. Innuendo is a weak way of making an argument.

Some of us have stated in other threads why we post. You seem to be looking for something nefarious, perhaps not realizing not everyone has a dishonest and secretive side to them.

Since you have missed my reasons for posting, they include an interest in how communities and organizations function, how legal disputes are pursued, an interest in explaining legal issues to non-lawyers, Airstreams and their history, and a kind of strange interest in watching a slow motion train wreck (i.e., the whole WBCCI experience). If you had read carefully, you would have already known this. Maybe you have ready carefully, but prefer to use innuendo to make your argument.

Some backers of the lawsuit strategy do not appear to really believe in an open forum despite their pro forma statements they do. I doubt recent posts about nonmembers will encourage anyone to join the possibly reformed WBCCI in the future. More and more it looks like 2air is correct, and I hope I'm paraphrasing him properly, this is just internecine warfare amongst similarly minded individuals over control of a club.

Before the moderators close this thread because it's just getting too nasty, I'd like you to state clearly just what "foul" "agenda" you believe is behind nonmembers' posts.

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Old 05-15-2010, 03:49 PM   #504
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Perhaps some non members and/former members really want to belong to the WBCCI, but want the club membership something to cherish, instead of the way it has been run for the last few years.

Membership, for most, in the WBCCI, was fun, fun and more fun.

When the fun disappears, in any club that was designed to have fun, so does membership.


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