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Old 05-14-2010, 11:49 AM   #477
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That's why the forums come in so handy if there are no family reunions
going on.....all the drama and conflict you could wish for.....

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Old 05-14-2010, 12:05 PM   #478
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I moved 2,000 miles from my family so I could have some peace, but the internet follows you wherever you go…


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Old 05-14-2010, 12:11 PM   #479
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Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
I moved 2,000 miles from my family so I could have some peace, but the internet follows you wherever you go…

Only if you let it
Buttercup's Web Site. WBCCI #17330, 11281 & 7830. VAC Past President & Webmaster, TAC NV-2 & NV-3.
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Old 05-14-2010, 12:32 PM   #480
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What Me Worry!!

I can't keep up with this. Some say that hate the drama. Some say if they want drama they would go to family reunions. Others say they moved thousands of miles away from family to avoid the drama and family reunions.
Yet they flock here and are not even members of WBCCI!!!!! and try to attack one of the guys that is trying to help save WBCCI. I don't get it. What am I missing?

Anyway, it seems to me that WBCCI leadership has done whatever it could to prevent what some may perceive as constructive changes and choose to do nothing instead. So they continue to do exactly what they have been doing all along and expect different results.
Yet in the meantime they are dismantling the system that can effect changes by throwing individuals out of the club or censoring dissenters.

I believe that this lawsuit, if successful on just some of its merits - just might have enough of an impact to save our club. Just change in the caravan requirements would help younger families participate more often.
Membership could increase when younger people, that have different needs - than those of us that are retired, may have those needs better met with a new club vision.
It will take time. People will need to see that WBCCI accepts the changing environment that exists today. Not all units are declining in their numbers. Metro NY is one of them. And, we are having fun too!
Keep up the good work Bob and all the others that are making it happen. We appreciate your time and effort.
Constructive criticism from non-members is also appreciated.
Joe Colao 50th Anniversary President of Metro NY WBCCI # 30916
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Old 05-14-2010, 01:23 PM   #481
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Originally Posted by joecolao View Post
Constructive criticism from non-members is also appreciated.
I guess it depends how you define "constructive". It doesn't appear to me that criticism of any kind is entirely appreciated. Criticism by someone you support often gets excused while criticism from someone who disagrees with you, however minor that criticism may be, seems to be magnified.

It's certain to me criticism on the internet is a whole lot less painful than criticism and drama from family.

Last week David Brooks wrote an interesting column about the difficulty of changing an institutional culture. This is about the army, but the lessons could apply to any hidebound organization: Op-Ed Columnist - Leading With Two Minds -

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Old 05-14-2010, 01:27 PM   #482
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I'm not posting here for you, Joe. Your mind is made up, as is Bob's. My interest in posting is to offer an alternative perspective to members of the Airstream community who have been asked to support this litigation financially.

I'm not defending the WBCCI; I'm just not drinking the lawsuit kool-aid. What I see you, Bob and others doing is engaging in wishful thinking via the legal system. My irony meter is also pegged because I see you and Bob engaging in some of the same defensiveness, misdirection and selective understanding you accuse the IBT. The plan here--as far as I can--is on par with South Park's Underpants Gnomes:

Phase 1: Sue IBT
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: Better WBCCI

Sorry if the South Park reference is a bit esoteric, but I'm just tragically hip.

If you can convince bright, thoughtful people like Gene you have a viable plan, legally and organizationally, I might completely change my mind on this litigation. So far, though, I'm not swayed. Worse, the general approach makes me feel like the new and improved IBT won't be that different from the old.
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Old 05-14-2010, 02:12 PM   #483
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Hamp & Gene I'm not going to continue engaging you two peas in a pod you're just

'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

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Old 05-14-2010, 02:43 PM   #484
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I'm not up on these "emoticons," Bob. Is that beating a dead horse or spanking an ass?

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Old 05-14-2010, 02:54 PM   #485
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WBCCI Board Lawsuit

The article written by David Brooks "Leading with two Minds" parallels what problems we are having with management of WBCCI.
As a past member of the IBT I found it totally frustrating in get add value for the membership when I was on the board..
I support what Savewally is doing. However, I sincerely hope it will not go to court as the financial cost to both side will be costly, I know, since I went through a lawsuit through no fault of mine. Now that both side of this issue has come to the forefront, now would be a good time to arrange a meeting satisfactory to both side and make changes that everyone is satisfied with. LETS NOT GO TO COURT.
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Old 05-14-2010, 02:56 PM   #486
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Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
Hamp & Gene I'm not going to continue engaging you two peas in a pod you're just

Bob, if you read our posts carefully, you'll find we don't agree on everything, and then you may notice we don't attack one another for disagreeing.

Studies show that spanking is harmful and causes anger issues in the spankee. It also reflects unresolved anger issues in the spanker.

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Old 05-14-2010, 03:39 PM   #487
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Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
Studies show that spanking is harmful and causes anger issues in the spankee. It also reflects unresolved anger issues in the spanker.

That may not ALWAYS be the case.

YouTube - Madonna - Hanky Panky (Album Version)

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Old 05-14-2010, 04:15 PM   #488
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every year 4 the last 5/6 years this group has trumpeted some issue in the months prior to the international rally...

the issues may have SEEMED to be important to the wb' long term survival but aren't.

name change
allowing rebadged mohos IN
nominations from the floor...

and now THIS years theme...

Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
...I'm 99.999% certain the lawsuit will reinstate Leo...

the quote above essentially is the solitary POINT of this "lets play in the courtroom" nonsense.

a unit has some1 THEY LIKE getting booted and they are trying to alter that outcome.

that's all this is (along with the cry for money and REdirects to other sites)...

the players haven't changed in all this time but they have picked up a few new folks along the way...

BUT have LOST a lot more who were ONCE genuinely interested but now see through this SELF-involved stuff.

the PROOF of that is that this thread engages SO FEW

and the folks primarily engaged aren't and haven't ever been PART of the wb' action.

that's ENTIRELY OK, the mental exercise is good for somethin',

but the fact that SO FEW current/former or POTENTIAL wb'ers post here...

sez a LOT.

years ago when some of the REST OF US who were members pointed out the financial iceberg

and cultural issues leading to the EXIT of so many members...

these same folks SHOUTED us down with their OWN ONLY VISION of the issues...

for example THOR was the cause of all ills then, along with MAL content members.

NOW it's the bobble heads and the bylaws and when in fact THESE have LONG been issues but were ignored till now...

there is NO plan for re organization, NO theme for fixing the club

and no REAL club changing issue at the base of this thing...

it's all about the QUOTE above and this group is otherwise LOST and directionless ...

there are many problems with the group pushing this sideshow and here are just a couple...

1. they've been crying about the sky falling for SO LONG that it is no longer interesting to most who have heard the crying EACH YEAR...

2. they refer to ANYONE who argues with the fundamentals of THEIR issues as "hecklers" OR play the "i'm now ignoring you" game...

incredibly childish and beyond passive/aggressive is this 'ignore' thing.

3. they claim to 'welcome constructive' criticisms which is EXACTLY what the wb' claims to WELCOME...

4. but use the same tactics against NON wb, NON ibt'bobble heads and former members...

"we decide what is constructive" is a sham and trap.

5. the sad result is they are KILLING friendships or alliances that DID exist and COULD be useful IF the club ever does change...

along with the RED NUMBERS the club's attraction has long been the HISTORY of travel, adventure and standing out in the rv crowd...

this group IS adding to that history,

but their legacy will be that of a bunch of crying chlld-adults who couldn't do things the HISTORICAL way...

and do NOT have a clue about how to be proactive for change...

1 new sky is falling issue a year isn't news or even interesting anymore.

the club IS what it is

and a couple of small groups of younger members who THOUGHT they were important and that they didn't have to PLAY by the existing rules...

have found out they aren't so important and they are STUCK with the same old rules...

can a judge or litigation fix that? no of course not.

and a judge can't fix ALL of the hard feelings and LOST connections that this non event has caused.

it's SAD but true that this group is DIGGING a trench around themselves and filling it with bitter water for ALL, not just the bobble heads.

the wb is STILL set up with rules and order from another time...

here's an example of that...

there is a caravan pending that is SORTA interesting, headed by the cleveland unit...

they'll travel from j/c ohio 2 milwaukee and take 6 weeks for the arduous trek...

moving about 90 miles every 3-5 days (somebody SHOOT me if i ever move that slowly in THOSE states...)

and here's how trouble makers will be handled...

""Dismissed from Caravan:

We are all looking to have a great adventure on this Caravan. Campgrounds and Factory Tours have rules and guidelines that everyone must adhere to. It will be grounds for dismissal from the Caravan if someone cannot or will not comply with Campground and Factory Tour Rules and Guidelines. In addition, unruley, drunken, or any kind of disruptive behaviors are grounds for dismissal from the Caravan and the Caravan member will have no refund and no recourse. We all hope to have a wonderful experience. The Wagonmasters will not allow the behavior of one or more individuals to ruin the experience for everyone else.

no refund and NO recourse for ANY kind of disruptive behavior....

the 'behavior of one or more individuals" will not ruin it for the REST..

again THIS is the basis and legacy of this club and while it does NOT jive with 21st century living...

it is what the wb' is...

and a FEW dissenters will NOT ruin it for the rest (resting home members and other stone-age members)

the 30,000+ membership daze are often quoted at the high point and goal for the future...

but that is completely WRONG and primarily the misunderstood focus of those who have NEVER been IN the club,

and those who REALLY do NOT understand what the wb' is...

the 30,000+ member days were in fact, the LOW POINT for the real wb' club and exactly when ALMOST all focus was lost.

QUANITY like that = maggotsnbugs over decay...

and massive groups like THAT include a LOT of riff raff.

like THIS CLUB here at AIRF we'ze a 'hole lotta riff raff and we'ze LIKE IT LIKE THAT!

there IS a place for a small civil old school wb' with SELECT members...

if they can sort out FUNDING.

there is a place for the folks who want the old'streams parade trailer club too (vac)

IF they can sort out how to survive with/without the classic wb' group.

AND THERE IS A PLACE for airstream riff raff.

it's here.

and we DON'T need an annual 'sky is falling non event' to keep our interest up...

pass the beer and bean dip and maybe a slightly used napkin...

all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
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Old 05-14-2010, 06:48 PM   #489
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Originally Posted by wheel interested View Post
That may not ALWAYS be the case.

YouTube - Madonna - Hanky Panky (Album Version)
I stand corrected. But Madonna is so yesterday, almost like Lawrence Welk.

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Old 05-14-2010, 06:49 PM   #490
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Thank you very much, 2Air. That was an exceptionally clear and concise summary of the situation.

It seems apparent that the wbcci won't survive in its present form. It simply can't afford the "lifestyle" it leads.

But it also seems obvious that it won't improve under the management of the narcissistic bunch who purport themselves to be its saviours.

But that doesn't stop this thread from being a lot of fun to read, huh!?

If it's to be, it's up to me.
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