Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-13-2010, 08:39 AM   #449
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,840
I came to my belief that retired persons have left or never joined from reading scores of posts here and elsewhere about retired persons who were members and quit or refuse to join. It's a suspect sample and perhaps only anecdotal, but Hampstead's analysis (similar thoughts were probably somewhere in my head) conforms what I believe.

I agree with Hamp's statements that lawsuits can be very destructive to an organization, but am unsure whether the outcome for the WBCCI will be negative. If a lawsuit is commenced (who really knows until papers are served?), the WBCCI may quickly settle to avoid litigation. That may cause or not cause change. Maybe the lawsuit will move to a quick trial (when has there ever been a quick trial except in small claims court?) and resounding victory for the plaintiffs. Maybe there will be a big change. Maybe, as Hamp' suggests it will be more of the same with better rules, fewer ties and flags, but really pretty much the same club. Lawsuits are war and war is risky and has many casualties.

So, Bob, I don't think you have to be a member to make a pretty good guess that a lot of retired people aren't members and have made a conscious decision not to be.

The point is being lost—how can the WBCCI attract younger members if they can't even hold on to their natural constituency? The posted quote identifies a problem and suggest it must be solved, but the how is left out. And the bigger question for nonprofits is how can they attract younger members when their base is an older generation which does not have a clue how to appeal to younger people?

Gene
__________________

__________________
Gene is offline  
Old 05-13-2010, 09:14 AM   #450
Rivet Master
 
Pahaska's Avatar
 
2014 Interstate Ext. Coach
Hays County , Texas
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,820
Images: 3
Quote:
And the bigger question for nonprofits is how can they attract younger members when their base is an older generation which does not have a clue how to appeal to younger people?
It can be done. At the windup of our rally last week, an unattached male commented (paraphrased) "Here I am, 39 and single sitting here with a bunch of older folks while they auction off surplus food from the rally. And I'm having a ball!"

The point is, we have fun at our rallies and we do value and include the younger folks. Our oldest member is 92, a Battle of the Bulge veteran, still pulling a 34', and still is fun to be around.

Much as I would like to strike out at the madness above unit level, I try to pick my fights so that the unit does not become a battle zone.
__________________

__________________
John W. Irwin
2014.5 Touring Coach, "Sabre-Dog IV"
WBCCI #9632
Pahaska is offline  
Old 05-13-2010, 10:02 AM   #451
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
Gene hamp, don't read more into not having first hand knowledge by not being a member than that

In our unit about two thirds are working if not more, so each unit has a different mix I suppose.

As to what the lawsuit will accomplish can only be positive IMO.

Some claims will have a great chance of winning some 50/50.

But that's pretty much any litagation.

When the suit is filed and served they will answer the complaint and/or call our law firm to settle, we just don't know.

If they hire a NY firm to represent them that looks for billable hours or one that will look to the WBCCI best interest.


Time will tell.
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline  
Old 05-13-2010, 11:20 AM   #452
Rivet Master
 
hampstead38's Avatar
 
1967 26' Overlander
Upperco , Maryland
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,087
Blog Entries: 22
The drop in membership is not unique to the WBCCI. There is a well documented decline in the membership of many longstanding social, civic and fraternal organizations.

"Fraternal organizations have also witnessed a substantial drop in membership during the 1980s and 1990s. Membership is down significantly in such groups as the Lions (off 12 percent since 1983), the Elks (off 18 percent since 1979), the Shriners (off 27 percent since 1979), the Jaycees (off 44 percent since 1979), and the Masons (down 39 percent since 1959). In sum, after expanding steadily throughout most of this century, many major civic organizations have experienced a sudden, substantial, and nearly simultaneous decline in membership over the last decade or two." Robert Putnam, "Bowling Alone."

Admittedly, the decline in the WBCCI is much greater, but some of that is likely due to Airstream itself--as a product and a brand.

In my work, I routinely interact with civic organizations. Over the past decade, some have folded due to lack of membership. Those remaining inevitably have membership that is much older--on average--than the community.

I think Gene hits the nail on the head. The WBCCI is not only failing to recruit enough younger members; it isn't retaining enough of the older ones. And what I don't understand is how the litigation--if successful--suddenly changes the fortunes of the WBCCI? If the pomp-and-ceremony goes away, why would the old guard stay? Why would current Airstream owners suddenly flock to the club?

Some civic organizations are growing. I think the key is in understanding why some clubs are attracting members. What are they doing right? I have my notions, but this is really a thread about the litigation... and I still keep coming back to the same point. How does winning (or losing) a lawsuit change the culture of the club?
hampstead38 is offline  
Old 05-13-2010, 12:56 PM   #453
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
Hamp I don't dispute what your saying about memberships dropping of but when you quote an obscure dated article tell folks its from 1997?
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline  
Old 05-13-2010, 02:13 PM   #454
Rivet Master
 
Pahaska's Avatar
 
2014 Interstate Ext. Coach
Hays County , Texas
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,820
Images: 3
Quote:
If the pomp-and-ceremony goes away, why would the old guard stay?
The sparse attendance at the opening ceremonies is an indication that the "old guard" has pretty much tired of the rituals, too. I find more and more that go only to "support" their flag bearer and dive for the exits afterward.
__________________
John W. Irwin
2014.5 Touring Coach, "Sabre-Dog IV"
WBCCI #9632
Pahaska is offline  
Old 05-13-2010, 02:22 PM   #455
VAC President
 
Buttercup's Avatar
 
1977 27' Overlander
1954 25' Cruiser
1990 34.5' Airstream 345
VC Highlands , Nevada
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,149
Send a message via Skype™ to Buttercup
Quote:
So $5240 got us a few ads, twitter and links..........great value that should have been maybe $1000 but hey it ain't Freds money its ours. Another bad deal, moreover, they will ask for another $15,000 in June I heard. That will pay for what facebook?
I may be mistaken in my thoughts here but didn't some of that money go towards the "BlueBeretOnline.com" domain as well. I believe, unless I am mistaken, that Fred's son now runs his old advertising firm, and that is who put together that domain for reading the newsletter online. And, doesn't Fred run the marketing committee or isn't he involved in it? If all of the above is true then marketing money went from a committee member to a family member - for what???? Last I checked, Twitter is free so I hope we didn't pay for that. And getting links.... to what??? For what?
__________________
Buttercup's Web Site. WBCCI #17330, 11281 & 7830. VAC Past President, TAC NV-2 & NV-3
Buttercup is offline  
Old 05-13-2010, 02:24 PM   #456
Rivet Master
 
hampstead38's Avatar
 
1967 26' Overlander
Upperco , Maryland
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,087
Blog Entries: 22
C'mon, Bob. Is the best counter you have to my post is a quibble about the date of a citation? What... has there been some dramatic turnaround in social engagement in the past decade you think I'm hiding? Have the Kiwanis, the Rotary, the JayCees, the Lion's Clubs, the Woman's Clubs, the Soroptimists and the Shriners all surged in membership and I just didn't get the memo?

As for "Bowling Alone," I could have quoted from the book (2001) or the website or the follow up book (2004). Maybe you were referring to Putnam describing himself as obsure:

"Few people outside certain scholarly circles had heard the name Robert D. Putnam before 1995. But then this self-described "obscure academic" hit a nerve with a journal article called "Bowling Alone." Suddenly he found himself invited to Camp David, his picture in People magazine, and his thesis at the center of a raging debate." (emphasis mine)

But, seriously, Bob, the folks on Airforums are smart enough to see that 1) any more needling by me would be gratuitous ; 2) you have not addressed the fundamental point of my post, and Gene's. How does winning the lawsuit (if you do) change the culture of the WBCCI? There are all sorts of nifty follow up questions, but I'd like to see if we can get one direct answer before we try for a second.
hampstead38 is offline  
Old 05-13-2010, 02:48 PM   #457
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
I may be mistaken in my thoughts here but didn't some of that money go towards the "BlueBeretOnline.com" domain as well. I believe, unless I am mistaken, that Fred's son now runs his old advertising firm, and that is who put together that domain for reading the newsletter online. And, doesn't Fred run the marketing committee or isn't he involved in it? If all of the above is true then marketing money went from a committee member to a family member - for what???? Last I checked, Twitter is free so I hope we didn't pay for that. And getting links.... to what??? For what?
We may have paid for the design of the twitter page???

How much was that?

That's the way the closed (no) bidding works ie: Halliburton


.
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline  
Old 05-13-2010, 02:54 PM   #458
Rivet Master
 
wheel interested's Avatar
 
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer , Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,039
How about this? Membership does continue to drop regardless of litagation or no litigation and regardless of outcome. I think that is a realistic assessment. You have already mentioned the various reasons. But how about serving it's own customers better, the ones that do stay and the ones that do join? With fair and open elections and fiscal responsibility, member representation and communication, and an end to discrimatory dirty tricks; many frustrated members would be happy campers. Do not forget that multiple grievances and their committees and the "members" forum does not allow redress, expression or defense. A third party was availed to help the present stonewalling and bottleneck of leadership empowered to protect their own agenda at high cost to proactive individuals in judicial sanctions and the general membership in the area of membership value and dues increases.

If you cannot vote the leadership out, if you cannot be heard and represented, if you try to work from within the system and they keep changing the rules on the fly to obstruct members from succeeding, there is definite disfunction and imbalance.

I think it was wrong to call for "quality members" rather than "quantity" and that they readily accepted the projection of losses from the current membership numbers while visions of dollars danced in their heads in calculating new revenue while issuing in dues hikes and higher event costs, and admittedly a small one to then become part of a succession of increases to soon follow. Their duty is first and foremost to the current membership... those same members that they consider expendable by both pricing some out and also those cut out of the herd to be expelled for vocalizing their criticism. These are the very same people that they have been selected to work for. The elite must be shaken out of the high places or behaviors retrained to conform to the constitution and bylaws and allow for amendments by membership majority to pass by the current IBT. It is a volunteer position of service and not one of special privileges and rank over others.

I get that a number of you disagree with the action and think we can only fail but as with Job's good buddies, we will just have to tune your reasoning out to curse the club and quit and have some faith to see us through the turbulent times.
__________________
Caroljb



photography
wheel interested is offline  
Old 05-13-2010, 03:22 PM   #459
Rivet Master
 
Lily&Me's Avatar

 
2006 22' Interstate
Normal , Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
I may be mistaken in my thoughts here but didn't some of that money go towards the "BlueBeretOnline.com" domain as well. I believe, unless I am mistaken, that Fred's son now runs his old advertising firm, and that is who put together that domain for reading the newsletter online. And, doesn't Fred run the marketing committee or isn't he involved in it? If all of the above is true then marketing money went from a committee member to a family member - for what???? Last I checked, Twitter is free so I hope we didn't pay for that. And getting links.... to what??? For what?
Per the Norm B memo posted recently by Leo here, the proposal is to create a full time WBCCI position for membership and marketing, currently handled by Fred Richardson, (whose son, via formerly Fred's marketing firm, has the contracted monies for this fiscal year).

What are members getting now and what would they get with a full time and presumably paid position?
__________________
🏡 🚐 Cherish and appreciate those you love. This moment could be your last.🌹🐚❤️
Lily&Me is offline  
Old 05-13-2010, 03:25 PM   #460
Rivet Master
 
Lily&Me's Avatar

 
2006 22' Interstate
Normal , Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested View Post

I think it was wrong to call for "quality members" rather than "quantity" and that they readily accepted the projection of losses from the current membership numbers while visions of dollars danced in their heads in calculating new revenue while issuing in dues hikes and higher event costs, and admittedly a small one to then become part of a succession of increases to soon follow. Their duty is first and foremost to the current membership... those same members that they consider expendable by both pricing some out and also those cut out of the herd to be expelled for vocalizing their criticism. These are the very same people that they have been selected to work for. The elite must be shaken out of the high places or behaviors retrained to conform to the constitution and bylaws and allow for amendments by membership majority to pass by the current IBT. It is a volunteer position of service and not one of special privileges and rank over others.
Absolutely.

Maggie
__________________
🏡 🚐 Cherish and appreciate those you love. This moment could be your last.🌹🐚❤️
Lily&Me is offline  
Old 05-13-2010, 03:28 PM   #461
Rivet Master
 
wheel interested's Avatar
 
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer , Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug&maggie View Post
What are members getting now and what would they get with a full time and presumably paid position?
I'll tell you what I got from Fred Richardson yesterday. I received an e-mail to renew my 2009 membership. And I think I will. Dang I wish it didn't cost so much or that the majority of the funds is going you know where! All I ask is to keep my number, have access to the BB online and to pay my way to parks and rallies as I am able to attend. Dues are too high to merely be an entry in a database unless you get reembursed travel and fees, dinners, gifts, and free monthly parking at the International and party at the Mid-Winter. Where one would expect discounts, one is confronted with gouging! Ouch! Sky Med discount, yeah right. Anyone price that special member discount premium? Sure takes your mind off the amount spent on club dues...And then to charge 60 dollars per child at rallies, shame.

As part of the WBCCI family, do you think I am one of the black sheep? I am glad they miss me. I feel kind of all warm and gushy inside.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Renew membership ltr.jpg
Views:	64
Size:	647.8 KB
ID:	102444  
__________________
Caroljb



photography
wheel interested is offline  
Old 05-13-2010, 05:09 PM   #462
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
Carol,

Your whole post was well stated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested View Post
How about this? ........
I get that a number of you disagree with the action and think we can only fail but as with Job's good buddies, we will just have to tune your reasoning out to curse the club and quit and have some faith to see us through the turbulent times.
What annoys me the most these folks aren't members yet they hope we fail

Why don't you dissenters read this

Because of the generous support it has garnered, the lawsuit will proceed as planned.



.


.
__________________

__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
greg gibson, vintage-airstream.com


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Walmart lawsuit. flashbackk Boondocking 135 09-07-2011 12:51 PM
Correct link to the 6-26-07 WBCCI Executive and Board Meeting Recording Ed Emerick WBCCI Forum 1 06-30-2007 08:00 PM
New to the Board!!! petsmo Off Topic Forum 9 11-02-2005 07:01 PM
New on board Big Blue Our Community 11 05-21-2005 09:36 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.