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Old 05-07-2010, 03:35 PM   #407
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I agree. Thanks Bob for holding our hand thru the process. As of today, there are only 715 signed up for Gillette International.
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Old 05-07-2010, 03:44 PM   #408
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Gene,

With (some) lawyers, there is gameship in the decision to staple or use a paper clip. If there is a strategy buried somewhere in the Airforums posting about this lawsuit, I have yet to see it. In fact, if I were opposing counsel, I would be encouraged. Even in the rarified air of the federal court, judges are interested equity as well as the law. Despite the decline in membership, the WBCCI is still a relatively large social club where the majority of members are content. The financial fortunes of the club are in decline, but that's hardly unusual. Is there misfeasance? Malfeasance? I imagine the great challenge in this is for the plaintiffs to provide a solid evidentiary basis for the court to impose a legal remedy... while avoiding the appearance of being a small barrel of sour apples.

We have discussed this before, Gene, the issues of culture, change, the dynamics of social networks, etc. While I have a modest and passing intelletual interest in the rise and fall of the WBCCI, I really don't have a dog in the fight. Frankly, if the folks pushing for the lawsuit achieve everything and a side of fries, I still don't think I'll have any interest in the red numbers and blue berets. I don't think new rules and "better" bosses will make it factory in which I would like work. In perfect candor, I don't see that much difference between the WBCCI apostates and the true believers.

Joe: Whether or not the WBCCI survives really doesn't mean much to me. I've participated in this thread to share my perspective. If you, Bob or the Queen of England want to sue the WBCCI, fine. It's your money; it's your party. Here's the bottom line. The way I see is that you all are going to make the WBCCI into a fun, friendly, camping club even if you have to sue them into the stone age to do it.

Good luck with that.
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Old 05-07-2010, 04:43 PM   #409
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Gene,



Joe: Whether or not the WBCCI survives really doesn't mean much to me. I've participated in this thread to share my perspective. If you, Bob or the Queen of England want to sue the WBCCI, fine. It's your money; it's your party. Here's the bottom line. The way I see is that you all are going to make the WBCCI into a fun, friendly, camping club even if you have to sue them into the stone age to do it.

Good luck with that.
I understand your position and there are many out there that would agree because they too do not have a "dog in the race" but I do as many of us are members.
My wife is the is the 1st VP of Metro NY, our son is the sec'y, my buddy is the 2nd VP, my buddy is the current President, my sister is in our unit. And, I can go on.
I personally have brought at least a dozen or so members into this club.
I believe in the process. I tried to help Leo through the process too.
Some of the leadership are too arrogant to accept responsibility for their failed policies and are not tolerant of any change at all.
I believe this will change and it is the commitment of those like Bob and Leo and others that just may save this club. And, I might add it is worth saving. It is fun to camp and be with fellow Airstreamers. We have been in every state (not Hawaii) and BC and Yukon and Alaska with our Airstream.
It seems to me that some of the people that post here are just there to waste the time and energy and to degrade the efforts of those that are working to save WBCCI. If those of you that don't really care or don't "have a dog in the race" why are you posting?
I don't get it. You of course have the right to post but why waste your time???
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Old 05-08-2010, 03:01 PM   #410
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find this discussion about the IBT officers very interesting. At the Hobo Rally this past February, I had a conversation with John Boutwell, the candidate for I3VP, about why he, as a sitting Region President, was chosen and not someone who was not a sitting president. He told me that none of the prior region officers was willing to step up. I am not sure what to read into this.

John was incorrect. But then with all the "goings on" perhaps my letter, like others I have sent, did not reach the "correct Committee" or perhaps it was ignored. Who knows now days. Guess that leaves "the floor" Bot T - Past Region 1 President
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Old 05-11-2010, 06:58 AM   #411
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Exclamation Ethics & grievance committee violations of their own

Ethics & grievance committee violated their own bylaws in discussing Leo G's pending grievance.

How do we know that?

In an April 18'th newsletter from the Cleveland unit there is a statement.

"Bill Johnjulio, who now leads the National/Special Events Committee, described a recent decision by the Ethics and Grievance Committee to expel a member who is a former New York Unit president. The individual has raised many complaints about the Club’s style and bureaucracy but did so without adhering to principles of courtesy and mutual respect. The individual has started a website to push is agenda of change outside the structure of the WBCCI."

The only way a member outside of the committee would make a statement like that is if a member of the committee breached the confidentially rules of the bylaws.

So the folks that are supposed uphold & theoretically govern the ethics of members aren't very ethical themselves in discussing the findings.

This kinda makes Leo's grievance hearing a miss trial.


.
Attached Files
File Type: doc WBCCI Cleveland Unit.doc (25.0 KB, 84 views)
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Old 05-11-2010, 07:29 AM   #412
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Wow they removed it already!

See the attachment I saved a screen shot for our legal team.
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Old 05-11-2010, 08:42 AM   #413
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Wow they removed it already!

See the attachment I saved a screen shot for our legal team.
Bob

That is not fair. Someone should tell the Feckless Leadership that everything they ever do on the net is there for ever. Simply removing it at the source end will not remove it from history. It like turning off the bubble machine there are still bubbles floating around.
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:46 PM   #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
Ethics & grievance committee violated their own bylaws in discussing Leo G's pending grievance.

How do we know that?

In an April 18'th newsletter from the Cleveland unit there is a statement.

"Bill Johnjulio, who now leads the National/Special Events Committee, described a recent decision by the Ethics and Grievance Committee to expel a member who is a former New York Unit president. The individual has raised many complaints about the Club’s style and bureaucracy but did so without adhering to principles of courtesy and mutual respect. The individual has started a website to push is agenda of change outside the structure of the WBCCI."

The only way a member outside of the committee would make a statement like that is if a member of the committee breached the confidentially rules of the bylaws.

So the folks that are supposed uphold & theoretically govern the ethics of members aren't very ethical themselves in discussing the findings.

This kinda makes Leo's grievance hearing a miss trial.


.
All of this proves nothing. Everything stated in that Cleveland newsletter could be learned by reading posts here and at SaveWally. Stop trying to make something out of nothing and just give up on the lawsuit already. You are just going to wreck the club. Quite frankly, I and many others are getting sick of the rumor, innuendo, and speculation you are trying to pass off as fact.
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:51 PM   #415
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Joe

Would you care to be a bit more specific? Which rumor, inuendo, and speculation do you take exception to?

If you would state them they can be dealt with one by one.
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:54 PM   #416
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Region 4?

Inneuendo? How do you feel about facts? There have been NO indirect intimations about a person or thing, esp. of a disparaging or a derogatory nature. We are directly charging the WBCCI leadership with the consequences of their actions and there is not a rumor among the list. With all the time you have been on the Save Wally team, you of all people, should know that directly Joe. There is no political posturing going on at this end.
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:03 PM   #417
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Region 4?

Inneuendo? How do you feel about facts? There have been NO indirect intimations about a person or thing, esp. of a disparaging or a derogatory nature. We are directly charging the WBCCI leadership with the consequences of their actions and there is not a rumor among the list. With all the time you have been on the Save Wally team, you of all people, should know that directly Joe. There is no political posturing going on at this end.
Since the start of the lawsuit talk I no longer participate at SaveWally - I will have nothing to do with that action.
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:13 PM   #418
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Joe

Would you care to be a bit more specific? Which rumor, inuendo, and speculation do you take exception to?

If you would state them they can be dealt with one by one.
This will be my last post on this subject because I try to stay out of all the political crap these days. Therefore, I will only address this one case where LI Pets suggests that since someone spoke about facts that have been posted repeatedly on SaveWally and here that their MUST have been a breach of confidentiality on the E&G team. That is a big leap, but it is the type of leap I have seen posted repeatedly in all of the posturing about a lawsuit.

I have no desire to engage in debate over the merits or lack therefore of all the claims I have seen posted in relation to the potential lawsuit. Debating that crap ain't fun and I know I can't sway any of your opinions, so why try.

But sometimes the mudslinging just gets to a guy. I should have just stayed out of it and let you guys ruin the club, but tonight I couldn't. I will try to keep my mouth shut in the future. Sorry for the interruption. Carry on without me.

Over and out, don't bother replying, because I will not post to this thread again.
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:37 PM   #419
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Boy are you very confused, without intervention the club is history.

If they weren't concerned about those published comments why did they edit (delete) their own newsletter that quick.
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:41 PM   #420
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The be nice mantra at all costs is disturbing. I can't see that being a viable course of action or rather inaction. Once the siren gravitational pull of leadership begins its ebb, questioning then becomes heresy and discussion is something to disperse with cease and desist type statements and disclaimers. However, the proof is evidenced by the works. One needs to argue no more than that to be clear.

Yup there are no politics involved with expelling the candidates that have spoken out and run from the floor. And printing the particulars of grievance charges isn't breaching the confidentiality of it. And members who try to garner support from other members and share information openly are mudslingers. And most of all the victims are to blame for ruining a good thing with their complaining, am I right? And we should all just give up already. Not. But nice try Joe. Backpeddaling from Save Wally and your comments ought to help pave a little of your way any how...
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