WBCCI Board Lawsuit

[robandzoe]

What Colorado Bus said!! And why Leo are you trying to be a part of this Franklin's organization.. take 2Air's advice, like I did.. and move on my friend!!!

Originally Posted by Coloradobus

I'm speechless.

Rob
TAC NY-1, now 275 strong!

[hampstead38]

If there's any lingering doubts about the culture issue, one can read the letter by "Franklin S." By the way, there's something vaguely familiar about the first name, last initial... I half-expected the first sentence of Franklin's letter to begin, "I never thought this would happen to me, but...."

The prose in the Franklin missive is indicative of the lifelong bureaucrat. If forced to guess, I'd say Department of Nonessential, Duplicative Paperwork in a state or federal agency... though, honestly, many state and federal officials are too timid to actually underline. As a petty bureacrat myself, I am a student of such things.

Another thing I've learned. Formality and "rule-invoking" is the refuge of those who lack the moral high ground. As a city administrator, my correspondence is direct, but mostly informal. In general, my tone is, "You know damn well you shouldn't be doing "x," "y," or "z" so how about knocking it off and saving us the trouble of dropping a house on you." I just find it more effective, and authentic, to talk to people like they are people and not a punch card that has been folded, bent, spindled or mutilated.

It's supposed to be a social club, folks. How in the name of blue blazes does a group predicated on goofing around in Airstreams turn into the U.S. Postal Service?

Post script: I'm sure this relates to the litigation somehow, but it's going to take me a minute to figure out how.

[HowieE]

I believe the time line relating to the grievances well proceeds the birth of the lawsuit. The suit may have caused the resent creation of the hurdles and other obstacles designed to impede Leo's defense and hide the action from the membership.

The IP clearly knows the underlying facts of the grievances would not stand the test of public scrutiny and has taken every conceivable step to hide the action from the membership.

The Leadership that called for this action has been paid a combined total of $130,000.00 of the budgeted $125,000.00 to travel around the country. They could have scheduled and convened in a more convenient location demonstrating reasonable concern for a member. Civilization long since has given up on the practice of having the accused carry their own cross. Its time for the WBCCI to catch up.

[LI Pets]

Leo I think you should post the other grievances that you had.

I know you withheld doing so because there was some confidentiality restrictions but now since you're technically not a member those restrictions can't apply.

I think if the folks here could see how those were handled they would see how a conspiracy developed to kick you out, thus understanding why your expulsion is one of the claims of the suit along with another claim for discriminatory practices in kicking your wife out also.


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[RickDavis]

I am sure many of us would like to see the actual grievance.
Of course I am an advocate of making the grievance system totally transparent, if there is any need for such a system at all.
I suspect there would be far fewer grievances filed if it were not for Confidentiality.

[Lily&Me]

Posting the grievances is an excellent idea. The membership need and deserve to know the truth.

Maggie

[wheel interested]

Originally Posted by robandzoe

What Colorado Bus said!! And why Leo are you trying to be a part of this Franklin's organization.. take 2Air's advice, like I did.. and move on my friend!!!



Rob
TAC NY-1, now 275 strong!

It's not Franklin's organization, it's Leo's, and yours and mine, and everyone else's. There's plenty more where we come from.

[Coloradobus]

And further "Member silencing," I understand there is NO open "Microphone Time" at the Gillette International. How convenient for the International Board to eliminate a form for us members to speak out.
Perry Ga. "Open Mike" day, the Motorhome issue, I spoke to the Board et al, telling them the Mandalay Luxury Coach Club President had no knowledge about what the WBCCI was up to for including Mandalay Coaches in the WBCCI. Their President said there was NO interest of theirs in Joining the WBCCI.. Yet Norm Beu speaks as if that is a liklihood.
I don't get it.
Just what does this club provide us for our dues. Rally insurance for those who want to host a rally. We can buy that ourselves elsewhere and include the cost in the rally fee. A printed monthly publication, that is filled with..... rally coupons, its format hasn't changed in decades.
Red numbers we stick on our Airstreams. Newsflash, we use a local decal/printshop who makes us a sheet with all four numbers on it.
Leo, I know your passionate about the expulsion and how they went about it, but is it worth your time.
Chris and I are really beginning to question the importance belonging to the WBCCI for our airstreaming needs.
Gillette should be most interesting, especially since we will park in Prez's Row until the 25th when we will move to Box Elder Section for Vintage parking. I want to meet the "Tea Tosser"
How many will keep silent during the Delegate Seminar when Misters Heyde and Wylie 's names are called outloud for their nominations?
Ooo! my blood is beginning to boil.

[HowieE]

If up until now you have failed to grasp the reasons behind our action, the rigidity and inflexibility that permeates the constitution, bylaws has now carried over into caravan registration. If you read the following E Mail I got from a member that had to cancel her reservation only to find out she had lost everything while those that went stood to get a refund. One more incident of the TOP guaranteeing their well being at the expense of the MERE MEMBERS.

Remember the Board just denied a motions to allow shorter Caravans for those with less time to commit, you know those still working. One more indication of the Value we receive for our increased dues

Caravan Registration Rules
Some of the rules are unfair to those who signed up in good faith and had to postpone or cancel their reservation. In the past, people needed to sign up a couple of years in advance in order to secure a spot on a caravan. Usually there was a waiting list. There could be a slight administration fee for the letter or two that were mailed before the cancellation. Only after a published stated date, should the full $50 be charged. As it stands now, a person could sign up one day, change their mind the next day, or find that another year would be better, and they would lose their $50 or more. It also states that if they need more money, you will be charged for that.
In most of the caravans, money is given back at the end. It seems that people who had to cancel or try to postpone to another year are just feeding the people who went on the caravan. Why is it that those who lost money as a result of unforeseen reasons had to cancel and are not awarded any money back? As the majority of members are older, health issues come up. It makes people not want to sign up far in advance because of the penalties involved.
Caravans should look to cutting costs. Not everyone needs or wants the high price campgrounds. What happened to the true caravan spirit that was started years ago? Almost everyone is outfitted to be self contained for awhile, only needing more facilities every few days. There are many that would like to go on caravans but find them too long or too expensive. There should be a variety to service the rich and the poor.
The practice of a person on stand-by having to lose their deposit if they can’t go is unfair. There should be a date when stand-by people can say whether they elect not to go. As it stands, a person could be notified the week before, not have time to get ready and lose their money.
As a result of the article in the April Blue Beret, it seems that many people have been burned by this policy. Some people will never try another caravan as a result. WBBCI needs to be more flexible in many of their rules as the present rigidity is turning people away.

[Coloradobus]

Leo, I know what your saying, I was just doing a little chest pounding here since I don't subscribe to the other side with Mr Burke. A suggestion was made to me today, about seeing TEA Shirts surfacing in Gillette, Sweetened or unSweetened of course. another suggestion was made to us while we are in Prez' Row, to carry cups of Ice Tea near a certain rig. Since "Open Mike" is not happening, I hope there will be lots of Boo's and Hiss's when certain names are called out. What else can we do, for immediate recognition.?

[Pahaska]

Originally Posted by 65GT

taking to the microphone at the IBT Seminar (comments must be germane to the motion, but what motion coming forward isn't the direct result of their failures?)
__

They treat comments from the floor like a fart in church... they simply pretend that it never happened.

[LI Pets]

Why have they never done a survey to get opinions or suggestions?

I recall Leo putting together a survey, he sent it to all the units some never passed it down thru their members, totally ignored it.

But about 350 (6,000members/3800with Email) sent it in or about 10%, Leo sent the results to Mid Winter, it was dismissed.

Yep lets work from within.........

This lawsuit is the best avenue to change the club.

The lawsuit has to be the main topic of discussion at Gillette, they certainly can't have an open mic.

I imagine about 1500 folks at Gillette all asking the IBT members all day & night hey "what about this lawsuit"

Who wants a copy to ask them the questions face to face?



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[bobfowler]

Originally Posted by 65GT

From my point of view these folks flat out ignore every objection, and every protest, there's an excuse or somebody else to pass the buck on. The two lines they always fall back on is that "young people aren't joiners," and "it's everybody's job to recruit."

I don't have a dog in this fight as Liz and I left the WBCCI after only one year. The club (at least at the top level) seemed to be way too old fashioned for our tastes. We just wanted to go camping, and occasionally meet up with like minded folks, and have a good time. We weren't interested in the politics, nor the pompous ceremonial crapola.

Anyway, the reason I'm posting this is the "young people aren't joiners" statement, aka the default position when a clubs membership hits a critical low level. To that I say Bu11$h!t ! "Young" people join organizations just as much as any other age group. The trick is, if you want a younger demographic, you have to actually TRY to appeal to them. As far as I'm concerned, the WBCCI not only doesn't appeal to "young" people, but you can add this 50+ year old to that list as well.

Rob has the right idea with TAC. Get together with a friendly group, dispense with the pagentry, and have a good time. Last I read, there were 275 members in TAC already - how many of those are former WBCCI members that didn't renew?

See ya'll at the Bash!

[HowieE]

As far as I'm concerned, the WBCCI not only doesn't appeal to "young" people, but you can add this 50+ year old to that list as well.

See ya'll at the Bash!

I'll make 70 in a week and a half and in the current form they don't appeal to me either. The reason I am pushing this issue is so that when I get older there will be a Club worth belonging to.

Leaving for the Bash early on the 24th.

[Boondocker]

There are plenty of younger folks who are joiners, what they are not is subservient and open to shut up and do what your told hierarchies.

[wheel interested]

"Stand down," is how they quiet you at their meeting. Picture standing and waiting in front of the Wizard to make an appeal, like Dorothy and friends, only they are many (20-30 strong) up above you, on stage, and you are alone below at the podium, allowed to speak only if and when and for as long as they see fit. "Time is out friends," and you are done, whether you had your turn or during your turn. Or it may be time for the cookie break or they smell the roast beef and have to go. It's just that easy for them to call a halt to discussion. I tell you, the meetings are quite the education, and not of a good kind. Or maybe like the last meeting they simply break new ground without constitutional or procedural basis and adjourn to private chambers and finish the new business of addressing a half dozen different motions that various members or you may have brought before them, all without you or the membership privy to proceedings of our club's new business, all secreted away from the simulcast, and without disclosing what the heck just happened! I am still scratching my head over how leadership got away with that and what was done behind closed doors. Coincidently it was all the motions about grievances and how they are handled. ZAP GONE POOF They made it go away. That was easy enough remedy, wasn't it? It sure is convenient to be able to make and apply law on the fly and have friends in high places, isn't it?

Hold your WBCCI leadership accountable! Making up rules as they go and using them against members and holding members feet to the fire while they engage in wrongful and unconstitutional actions is inappropriate and unacceptable.

There are young people in the WBCCI but it is the units that recruit and retain them. There could be more if the IBT wasn't chasing more away than they attract or charging an arm and a leg to join the international before you can join the unit. Taxation without representation. Enough is enough and they are finally called on it.

[Coloradobus]

Hey Carol,

I have a suggestion if anyone gets a chance at a microphone in gillette, is stand on a step-ladder looking down while speaking to IBT's EC-7 members.

[Boondocker]

Whats to keep a group of members from organizing their own independent meeting at the rally to discuss what is going on?

[HowieE]

Originally Posted by Boondocker

Whats to keep a group of members from organizing their own independent meeting at the rally to discuss what is going on?

Boondocker

The problem is most of the members in attendance at the International will be of the mind set that accepts this foolishness. and want it to continue.

With the exception of the members that read threads here I would venture to say 80+% of the general membership has no idea where their dues go or are aware of the complete disregard for Roberts Rules and how these meeting are conducted.

Short of a conclusion of the suit I would say you will never here an open mike secession at a Mid Winter or International meeting again.

They now know people were actually listening to those meeting and not liking what they heard, so never again.

[Inland RV Center, In]

I belonged to the WBCCI club for over 20 years.

I never went on a rally with a trailer.

However, once in a while, I gave a program on some of the "how to's" as well as problem prevention or solving, at a rally, as well as periodically being supportive.

Since I do not have the time to be active in the WBCCI club, I resigned early this past January.

In short order, I received a check for $ 55.00, from headquarters, dated January 7, 2010, as a refund for my membership.

I signed the check and mailed it to the local WBCCI group, as a gift.

Today, May 26, 2010, I received the same check back in the mail, from the local group.

A hand written letter came with the check.

The letter said,

"Thanks for the offer of this check. The bank won't allow us to deposit it to our account. Hope all is OK. Thanks again.

It was signed by the treasurer.

Wonder what that's all about, and/or the rules it violates.

Andy