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Old 05-03-2010, 07:02 AM   #295
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Any group which promotes prayers as part of meetings and gatherings excludes certain members.
Gene
And that is an excellent observation. Sitting quietly while others pray is a common practice.

Embracing diversity and difference is, again, a process rather than an event, but certainly a direction in which to begin moving.

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Old 05-03-2010, 05:30 PM   #296
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The real issue here is culture. All too often in discussions of cultural differences, the participants use loaded words (and concepts) like race and religion. At the heart of the dispute--as far as I can tell--is a cultural difference between the interntional leadership and some of the rank-and-file members.

I emerged from a fairly specific culture... rural Montana, mill town, working class, blue collar/red neck. Because I've had the good fortune to travel extensively outside the U.S., acquire a decent education, live in other parts of the country, I see my "culture-of-origin" a bit differently than if I had not left. Oh, and the French half of my family has given me some unique insights.

I, for one, don't doubt the sincerity of both sides in this dispute. I think the sport coat, slacks, name tag, old school members of the WBCCI feel they are the rightful guardians of the Byam heritage... just as firmly as the sandals, tee shirt and "let's just go camping" members think they are.

Culture is hard thing to change. One would think the U.S. government would have learned that by now, spending trillions of dollars and sending armies of bureaucrats forth with the sole mission of changing culture... with very limited success. Sometimes, cultural change is simply a matter of an older generation passing to a younger with different notions.

As I have said before, I don't see a lawsuit resolving the fundamental cultural differences. If the old guard "wins," the long, slow decline into irrelevance will continue. If the new guard "wins," some of the old guard will leave rather than see the club "destroyed" by the usurpers.
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Old 05-03-2010, 06:13 PM   #297
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I totally disagree Ken. I think you are totally wrong.
This law suit will bring about a great deal. A few lawyers will become even wealthier and the club will be killed for sure. It is a win/lose/lose situation for sure.
In the end a small group will be able to say, "we defended it till the end" and the other group will say "we did our best" and few lawyers will go for a nice drive with the top down.

Some of you reading will say I am "HECKLING" but I am just speaking my mind.

Shame on all of you for entertaining such bull droppings...
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Old 05-03-2010, 06:15 PM   #298
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I'm glad to see the suit go forward. I just now doubled my original pledge.

I would hope for a negotiated settlement with agreement to primarily fix the non-election election process and the juvenile grievance process as well as balance spending without doing it on the backs of the membership..
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Old 05-03-2010, 06:32 PM   #299
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Some of you reading will say I am "HECKLING"
stick with tac, you already stated your position before, we remember it no need top repeat your self.
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Old 05-03-2010, 06:38 PM   #300
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When this blows up in your face will you cowboy up and accept responsibility? When the history books are written will YOU Bob accept the results of your actions? Because you WILL loose and so will the remaining +/- 6000 members you have. Law suits do nothing but make money for attorneys.
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Old 05-03-2010, 06:44 PM   #301
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Ask Metro NY, Leo, Tim & Howie?

As to blame, I'll blame you cowboy for your lack of support, TAC'y.
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Old 05-03-2010, 07:17 PM   #302
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I'm glad to see the suit go forward. I just now doubled my original pledge.

I would hope for a negotiated settlement with agreement to primarily fix the non-election election process and the juvenile grievance process as well as balance spending without doing it on the backs of the membership..
Thanks John
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Old 05-03-2010, 07:23 PM   #303
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When this blows up in your face will you cowboy up and accept responsibility? When the history books are written will YOU Bob accept the results of your actions? Because you WILL loose and so will the remaining +/- 6000 members you have. Law suits do nothing but make money for attorneys.
Have a little tac(t), oh that's right you already do, and have walked away from WBCCI and given up and started your own club, but you just like to keep in the mix, because...why?

Whatever your choice of expression, blaming the injured for gaffling at their oppressors for causing trouble is way out of sync. Shame on you and whomever else thinks it is small to make oneself a target on behalf of others and then goes to the extreme of heaping fiery coals upon their heads. The only people to be held accountable for the demise of the club is the leadership and not the membership that continues to try to effect change with the means they have available, since the practice has become to disenfranchise members and leaders who speak out.

Pick a side Frank, any side...you're confusing me. Do you really think it is your duty as a quitter and founder of a replacement club to malign members who are trying to stick it out through adversity and make a positive difference for the future? Wherein lie your loyalties and what is the cost of your alliegience? Saving face? Because it apparently is not working...
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Old 05-03-2010, 07:59 PM   #304
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I agree 100% with the need, it is the method I think is wrong. Others on this thread with experience in legal matters have been subtly trying to tell you the same. Hampstead... he runs the city of Hampstead. How many law suits do you think he sees in week? Other lawyers have said the same. Soon enough a fat lady(and a little skinny one) will sing and we all will know the out come.

Call me what ever you want. I have been called far worse from people I actually have respect for. But your opinion is just as important as mine(unless it does not agree with yours, and then my opinion is 100% irrelevant).
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Old 05-03-2010, 08:38 PM   #305
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Frank you know not what you speak, I just set you to IGNORE.

Ps: Carol hit the nail on the head, send a check quitter.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:21 PM   #306
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will you call all those who do not renew in 2011 "quitters" too? Call me all the names you want. I have very thick skin.
Now turn that ignore button back on...
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:59 PM   #307
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No name calling, at least I had not thought of the reference as being a negative reference as much as my point was about the anomoly of someone who is no longer interested in being in the club being so very interested and critical of how those left in the club conduct their business. I am not ignoring you or calling you names.

I am glad that we do agree on the need. And your objection to the method is duly noted. But that is what we have pursued and that is what we will stand with. And I apologize if your comment was not an intrusion but a legitimate comment of constructive criticism and geniune concern and we misinterpreted.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming...

The effort is snowballing and we are heartened by the support of individual members and units! It is nothing short of monumental and we thank the supporters and encourage all to have a share. You can help just by spreading the word and bringing this up at your next meeting or to your friends in WBCCI. If ever there was an act worth pursuing this is it and the opportunity to make the voices of the general membership heard at last.
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Old 05-04-2010, 06:20 AM   #308
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Quote:
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The effort is snowballing and we are heartened by the support of individual members and units!

You can help just by spreading the word and bringing this up at your next meeting or to your friends in WBCCI.

If ever there was an act worth pursuing this is it and the opportunity to make the voices of the general membership heard at last.
There has been a surge in pledges, and 4 units have expressed interest or requested more information.
One asked Metro NY to confirm if it was true that the unit will be a Plaintiff.

At Metro's unit meeting this past Saturday I was suprised several members didn't fully understand the issues and the process.
Therefore, if any other units need more info to discuss this matter and consider joining as an additional plaintiffs please pm me with your phone and time to contact.
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