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Old 03-25-2010, 08:34 PM   #211
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Baloney, there is a plan perhaps you need to reread that email? If your interest was genuine you would not be making these uniformed posts. There was a link in that email for more info did you seek any additional info? ...
I just reread the email as well as defendwally.org. Yes, the latter site does ask for input ("Message to WBCCI"). Just above that text input block is the request for monetary pledges. ("Your help & your pledge to contribute to support this effort. We are not collecting any contributions at this time, but we are collecting pledges for contributions. When the time comes to move forward, we will be contacting all of those interested in contributing details on how to complete your pledge.")

The site does include a shortlist of complaints:
  • Breach of fiduciary duty for allegedly misappropriating funds.
  • Travel expenses -The Wally Byam Caravan Club International, Inc., is a non-profit corporation and no part of its income or profits shall inure to the benefit of its certain members/officers.
  • The IBT failed to act prudently and reasonably in regard to the management of the organization’s affairs.
  • The IBT failed to its duties to ensure effective organizational planning, establish programs and services consistent with the organization’s mission and assist in implementing and monitoring the plan’s goals.
  • The IBT failed to provide financial oversight and assist in developing a balanced annual budget and ensuring that proper financial controls are in place.
  • The IBT failed to manage, supervise and control the activities, affairs, property and funds of the International Club.
  • The IBT failed to ensure legal and ethical integrity and maintain accountability for adherence to legal standards and ethical practices.
  • The IBT failed to establish procedures to ensure that each board member understands and complies with his or her duties as a board member.
  • The IBT failed to monitor the conduct of its board members to ensure the organization is being properly managed.
  • The IBT allowed frivolous grievances to be filed.
  • The IBTs broad definition of the wording “avoid disharmony and ill feelings among club members”.
  • The IBT failed to follow the bylaws or Robert Rules in adjudication of grievances.
  • The IBT draconian measures terminating members and defamation of several members.
  • Discrimination unfair practices of raising MAL dues.
All of these have been discussed here or on SaveWally, I think.

Lynn
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:40 PM   #212
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In my experience, Gene, there can be more passion in club politics than in the marital bedroom... present company excluded, of course. And in many marriages, husband and wives often have the good sense to give up trying to "improve" the other. In my case, I decided long ago my wife is perfect and she decided long ago that I am incorrigible.

I've had plenty of experience involving youth sports organizations, parent-teacher associations, homeowner's associations, etc. Some of the most bitter infighting and power struggles I've seen have been in churches. I agree that attorneys--working as dispassionate, objective advocates--can help broker resolutions. I also know that a time comes when the attorney picks up his or her check... and the couple, the family, the organization, the club, remains. The legal system is, by its nature, adversarial. The legal process produces winners and losers. Perhaps you'll think I'm cynical, but I don't see a happy ending to WBCCI litigation. One side will win; the other will lose. The bad feelings will linger on long after the legal matter is settled.
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:50 PM   #213
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One side will win; the other will lose. The bad feelings will linger on long after the legal matter is settled.
The bad feelings will linger on regardless of whether or not legal action is taken. There is always the hope that through action the winning side will be reversed.

The problem is not the choice to take legal action. Legal action is one indication that there is a problem. Seeking justice outside of the club when it cannot be established within is of course adversarial. But not seeking it at all would not be the better alternative.
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Old 03-26-2010, 07:35 AM   #214
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Baloney, there is a plan perhaps you need to reread that email?
If your interest was genuine you would not be making these uniformed posts.
There was a link in that email for more info did you seek any additional info?

We had a good response from that email todate so the if and when is becoming yes and soon!

Thank you, Lynn/Eubank, for also pointing this out. I read it all, and find NO PLAN/SOURCE FOR FUNDING THIS FOR YEARS IN FEDERAL COURT. If, somehow, we have all missed it, please cite it in a pm to me, I will stop "making these uninformed posts" and correct myself publicly right here on this thread.

Your anger, upset, feelings of persecution and being treated unfairly are heard, we understand them and the reasonings behind them. No one is saying they aren't legitimate and anyone put in these situations would and does feel the same way. See my other posts on this matter, and trust me on that.

Those points made, again, trying to whip WBCCI members/former members into a feeding frenzy against the IBT to start something that cannot be finished seems pointless and will ultimately cause more harm than good. You must be aware of this on some level, so perhaps that is the intent?

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Old 03-26-2010, 07:53 AM   #215
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Carol,

The WBCCI has what, around 7,000 members? It seems to me that if a majority of those members were unhappy with the WBCCI, the club would be changing... without litigation. Let's say, for the sake of discussion, you have 100, 200 or even 500 people willing to write you a check to fund the litigation. Even with 500 people firmly in your camp, you're talking about less than ten percent of the WBCCI.

I'm not a member so I don't have a dog in this fight. I also try to see things from more than one side. There are folks in the WBCCI who are going to hear this litigation talk and conclude that it is a disgruntled minority who want to change the club while they are perfectly content with the club the way it is.

If there are 7,000 members, Carol, all sending in a check for $75 a year (or whatever the freight is), some people must be happy with the WBCCI exactly the way it is. I'm not saying the International leadership is right. I'm just saying if this thing rolls into court--and you pop in to hear opening arguments--the WBCCI attorneys are going to describe the club as a group where the vast majority of members are happy with the leadership.
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:27 AM   #216
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It is also possible that, of those 7,000 members (more like 6,000 and some change), some don't know what's going on and their only means of receiving information is from the BB, since not every WBCCI member is an Air Forums member.

Hopefully this lawsuit will wake the IBT/EC-7 up; kinda like when a puppy poops on your new carpet and you smack it with a newspaper.
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:36 AM   #217
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I'm just saying if this thing rolls into court--and you pop in to hear opening arguments--the WBCCI attorneys are going to describe the club as a group where the vast majority of members are happy with the leadership.
Just to clarify you're not a member, correct?

I think we can say there is no longer an IF it goes to court, IT is going to court.
I can say this based on the pledges to date.

Their not happy they are just afraid to speak out because if they do they may get a grievance against them.

vast majority of members are happy, vast majority are in the dark anyway
it wouldn't matter if it was one person.
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:48 AM   #218
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Just to clarify you're not a member, correct?
Hi Bob, "Just to clarify" As a member of Airforums you should be able to post to any thread on Airforums no matter what your outside affiliations are.
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:54 AM   #219
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Sure, I only asked for clarification did I not?
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Old 03-26-2010, 10:23 AM   #220
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Maggie, hemstead38, 2air

You all tend to run with the majority. Of the 39,000 individuals that are members of this Forum over 80% are not members of the Club. Why is that? 2air is clearly in another majority that you, Maggie and hemstead38, may also be in. Of the 30,000 plus members the Club had 20 years ago there were 6136 left as of the beginning of this year. Of that number many have recorded comments here and elsewhere that they will not be members next year.

It is that steep and predictably declining membership that this action is attempting to halt and while distasteful to many, even to those involved, is clearly a last resort. All forms of internal relief have been tried only to be ruled Out of Order, or tabled to eternity solely to retain the privileged lifestyle of the Leadership. Yes we could all just quite and let the Leadership spend down the bank account to zero while driving off into the sunset. But it's our money they are spending and that is not acceptable.

Rather than stand on the side lines and attempt to derail the effort why not let it play out. Who knows you all might consider joining a Club dedicated to Airstreams and unburdened of these leaches.

There has been an attempt to reach the majority of the Clubs membership and comments, supporting the action, from those members are starting to come in. You can follow them here http://defendwally.org/what-they-are-saying
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Old 03-26-2010, 10:28 AM   #221
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HowieE, check your facts---we are WBCCI members and intend at this point to stay members.

We will address issues from the inside, and do believe the WBCCI/IBT is paying attention. Change is a process, not an event.

Maggie
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Old 03-26-2010, 10:39 AM   #222
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HowieE, check your facts---we are WBCCI members and intend at this point to stay members.

We will address issues from the inside, and do believe the WBCCI/IBT is paying attention. Change is a process, not an event.

Maggie
I stand corrected on your membership. Your profile on this Forum does show a WBCCI number. Some of us have figured out how and are proud enough to state that fact in our signature

With that exception I also stand by my other comments.
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Old 03-26-2010, 10:50 AM   #223
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I don't know the intent of the potential plaintiffs in the WBCCI dispute. Maybe what they want is what they say (sometimes cynicism is a bad approach)—to improve the fiscal situation of the club. Maybe they want to force improvement in governance. Maybe they want to stimulate a revolt of members and force out the present leadership. All are valid goals on their face. I have no doubt it will get ugly, but ugly, as unpleasant as it is, may be better managed by logical, dispassionate lawyers than the parties themselves. Most any lawyer will tell you they'd rather negotiate with another lawyer than a pro se party who is emotionally involved in the outcome. There's also saying, perhaps a truism, a judge told me (not about me): "bad clients hire bad lawyers". Every case is different.

Gene
Gene:

I deal with Attorneys everyday, both on the Plaintiff's and Defendant's side for my employer. I usually find that after serious round of discovery coupled with a serious deposition or two on both sides; meditation becomes very desirable. One thing I have learned is that if you go to trial; be very wary of the Trial Judge; their bench rulings can wreck even the best of cases and can be very hard to overcome on appeal.

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Old 03-26-2010, 11:03 AM   #224
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Maggie,

your will to adress issues from inside is valuable. Though some tried before to reach the position that allow to make those changes... and they were put under grievance sooner after.

Since you are a member of the club, and aware of the facts, I don't need to remind you all of them.

But may I ask you what your plan is to adress the issues from inside. Do you plan to run for an International position? if yes, how do plan to reach it? do you plan to propose changes to the bylaw/constitution? and as a "mere" member (it is not my own wording as you know) how do you plan to achieve so?

And be sure that I am not asking those questions with any kind of malice. I am truly interested to know what your options are.
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