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Old 03-15-2010, 01:42 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
and THAT is the reason for yet another thread on this topic.

someone (or 2 or 3...) is just trying to raise more money/solicit funds from THIS COMMUNITY.

it's in poor taste doing that HERE and against the terms of use.

some of the "SEND MONEY" posts have been deleted.

which is appropriate for handling SEND MONEY threads and posts.

and this ENTIRE THREAD should be deleted as well.

'pets u and howieE are embarrassing yourselves with these lame attempts to GET MONEY.

in person u r both sensible fellas so seeing this stuff is MOST troubling.

the nestea plunge is OLD stuff and way past tense.
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while the ibt bobble heads have clearly painted a picture of WHO they are and the club they wanna run...

you guys may actually FIT PERFECTLY in their club, based on these threads alone.



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Here, here! Very well-said, 2air"!

Let me first say that I am NOT a WBCCI member, nor will I ever be, based on the attitudes and childish bickering shown here by both sides of the current question.

This thread demonstrates the methods, both silly and mean, used to drum up money and support to fight the current management of a club that SHOULD be a shining example of friendships and brotherly love.

Sadly, that club is being destroyed by the egos both of the people that presently run it, and of those who evidently want to run it.

I appeal to the management of airforums.com to invite those whose only interest in posting here is to continually harangue us to either give money or quit the WBCCI to do this work elsewhere, and not here.

Contrary to what those same people might think, I can't imagine that people join airforums.com to read about your pitiful vendettas against one another.

ps: I think a cream pie in the face would have been more apropos than a jug of iced tea.
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Old 03-15-2010, 01:47 PM   #156
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After some consideration, the lawsuit thread and the thread about the water pitcher incident have been combined since there was considerable discussion about this later topic on the earlier thread. As a caution to participants in these discussions, please do not start multiple threads about the same general topic. More threads is not necessarily a good thing. While we work to keep AIR open for all to post, we have some growing concerns about the general negative tone and growing number of these various (and recent) threads. Please help keep AIR a fun and positive place for all members regardless of club affiliation.

Thanks for understanding.
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Old 03-15-2010, 08:43 PM   #157
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Ladies do not attack others with containers of tea
Is that on YouTube?
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Old 03-15-2010, 08:54 PM   #158
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wetted Tea shirts?

Join now and we will send you the free bonus video, Girls Gone Wilder. But wait there's more...get the limited edition of Stupid People Tricks absolutely free for joining within the next 30 minutes! We are standing by.

I don't suppose we can get this thread back on track and even if we do other threads may become attached. We are such a magnet.

We really could use some moral support. I know I am joking right back at you but there are some serious issues that have been swept under the carpet and individuals have been targeted. I would say an effort should be made to try to redress the most blantant abuses.

Those that have been driven mad from these threads on the club forum, save yourselves and avert your eyes. There is tastier fish for you to fry elsewhere. Don't torture yourselves with heroic efforts to subvert. We have been shouted down many times over and we still have a place to post. Deal with it. Don't scroll down to the bottom of the bus.
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:09 PM   #159
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The threat of litigation can resolve issues. Litigation rarely does. I much prefer settling a matter out of court. An agreed upon settlement is certain; the judgment of a judge or jury is not. Going to court is expensive. Even if you prevail, the cost of litigation often outweighs the benefits (except for the attorneys). Furthermore, litigation rarely gives people what they really want. Finally, litigation generally means burning bridges. This may not matter if you don't plan to see the other party every again, but it isn't ideal if you are, e.g., a custody battle. Many people go to court thinking they'll find some kind of justice, some balancing of the scales. Most are disappointed.

As for pouring tea on someone's head... I guess my perspective is different than many here. I don't know the specific circumstances of the alleged event so I really can't comment. In general, I don't recommend pouring a drink on a person's head unless you want to get smacked... age, gender and/or level of sobriety notwithstanding.
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:32 PM   #160
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I'm with 2air and others on the subject. If there is a cause worthy of action, the discussion should not include expressions of resentment over petty acts or other kinds of insults. Your actions and discussions should rise above such matters.

Pat
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:51 PM   #161
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Much of what you say is true and could easily be applied between reasonable individuals or groups with respect to settling differences. Reasonable is not a word that can be applied here.

The Leadership has demonstrated a history of ignoring, rejecting, or ruling out of order almost any suggestion, amendment, comment, or nomination from the floor for the past several years. This history dose not leave one with a sence that they could be delt with on a civil bases.

There are several issue that have to be addressed in the near future to retain the functionality of the Club before it implodes under it's current direction. Those individuals that are members of the Club know first hand the situations that warrant this action. Members have had some success combating irrational directions, name change and off branded motor homes, in the past but there is no alternative available under the current constitution to curtail the deficit spending, end closed election, and protect a members right to reasonable discussion of Club matters.

Rest assured we are not taking this action just because someone got a wet tee shirt.

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Old 03-16-2010, 03:30 PM   #162
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I'm not defending the leadership of the WBCCI, Howie. I'm just sharing my experiences regarding litigation. For the sake of discussion, let's say the International leadership is truly inept, incompetent and downright lousy. So, what are they doing that is unlawful? Deficit spending may be ill advised, but it isn't illegal. Silly rules for elections may be annoying, but what law do they violate? A private association can impose all kinds of restrictions on its private members without violating anyone's rights.

Even if you can prove, through evidence, the WBCCI International leadership has acted illegally, what is the remedy? Even if you have a legal case with some merit, the court isn't going intervene in the internal affairs of a private social club. The court isn't going to change the leadership, the culture or the club.

I don't see any court meddling in the internal affairs of a private social club.
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Old 03-16-2010, 04:52 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by hampstead38 View Post
I don't see any court meddling in the internal affairs of a private social club.
You might be surprised at the level of interest the Courts have taken in the operations of Non Profit clubs. Try a search for Houston non profit club or obligations of officers of a non profit club.

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Old 03-16-2010, 06:17 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hampstead38 View Post
I'm not defending the leadership of the WBCCI, Howie. I'm just sharing my experiences regarding litigation. For the sake of discussion, let's say the International leadership is truly inept, incompetent and downright lousy. So, what are they doing that is unlawful? Deficit spending may be ill advised, but it isn't illegal. Silly rules for elections may be annoying, but what law do they violate? A private association can impose all kinds of restrictions on its private members without violating anyone's rights.

Even if you can prove, through evidence, the WBCCI International leadership has acted illegally, what is the remedy? Even if you have a legal case with some merit, the court isn't going intervene in the internal affairs of a private social club. The court isn't going to change the leadership, the culture or the club.

I don't see any court meddling in the internal affairs of a private social club.
I retired after 30+ years of government work. An appropriate saying we had was "Management has the right to manage, they also have the right to mismanage."

I am a WBCCI member for now and I do feel the frustration with the leadership. I do wonder what the courts interest might be and I can't imagine them ordering changes in club structure or operations.

I do hope your legal advisor's have a means to interest the court system because something needs to be done. I'll be interested to know their approach.

Cheers, Dan
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Old 03-17-2010, 09:36 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by hampstead38 View Post
I'm not defending the leadership of the WBCCI, Howie. I'm just sharing my experiences regarding litigation. For the sake of discussion, let's say the International leadership is truly inept, incompetent and downright lousy. So, what are they doing that is unlawful? Deficit spending may be ill advised, but it isn't illegal. Silly rules for elections may be annoying, but what law do they violate? A private association can impose all kinds of restrictions on its private members without violating anyone's rights.

Even if you can prove, through evidence, the WBCCI International leadership has acted illegally, what is the remedy? Even if you have a legal case with some merit, the court isn't going intervene in the internal affairs of a private social club. The court isn't going to change the leadership, the culture or the club.

I don't see any court meddling in the internal affairs of a private social club.
This ^ is a bullseye.
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Old 03-17-2010, 06:53 PM   #166
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It seems that we're now being asked for support (money) via direct e-mail:

Quote:
I am looking for the members that voted against the name change.

I am looking for the members that voted against Four Winds motor homes.

I am looking for the members that are dissatisfied with the mismanagement of the Club

I am looking for the members that are disgusted over the treatment of a Unit President, while standing up for your rights at the International, having ice tea poured over his head and then a grievance filed against him.

I am looking for the members that disagree with the use of expensive legal action used to harass members.

I am looking for the members that question why amendments, suggestions, and comments from the floor are Suppressed or ruled Out of Order.

I am looking for the members that take exception to no choice elections.

If this is you, now is the time to act, you have one last chance to save the Club before it implodes under the current direction of mismanagement.

There is currently a movement to bring the leadership into court to defend several actions that clearly violate the accepted practices for the management of a nonprofit origination. If you still retain the zeal demonstrated by your past voting record and are still interested in saving our Club please visit Defend Wally http://defendwally.org and state your position.
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Old 03-17-2010, 07:38 PM   #167
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I don't see where the e-mail asks for money but I do see that it asks you to visit the site and state your position of supporting the effort to defend members rights within the WBCCI. Some people actually have volunteered to give some money to help. There is a listing on site. No one asked or will ask for contributions here either. There are rules against fund raising on Air Forums. Trying to drum up support and find like minded individuals has always been allowed however for any legitimate, legal or moral endeavor.

Were you able to make a statement in private on site? You could also send in a picture and be part of the banner if you approve the message. I think you have only mentioned some of what has been represented. What really is needed is people to come together and discuss the issues and see what might be accomplished working together.

It's good you posted the letter because most individuals will not have been included and now anyone here at Air forums can see first hand as you did what is currently going on so far with Defend Wally and the attempt to be heard.
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Old 03-17-2010, 07:49 PM   #168
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Lynn

You are a hard man to please. You don't want open discussion on the Forum. You don't want correspondence between members. If you are interested in the outcome of the Court how should that be sent to you?
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