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Old 11-08-2009, 09:00 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by 62overlander View Post
Unfortunately the WBCCI Forum is only a place for positive thought. If anything negative is discussed, the post is either removed for "harsh words" or parts are moved else where to break up the context of the discussion. This tactic makes having a mature discussion impossible. Many very serious club members have attempted to talk about real issues facing our future and they are quickly silenced or the thread is locked out.
Frank,
I totally agree. I have chosen to remain silent on the WBCCI forums for some time for a variety of reasons, but I do log in every once in a while to look around. I am dismayed to see threads constantly moved (that even happened to one I started before I entered "silent" mode). I see that differing opinions are basically not tolerated. Posts are removed and moderators note that one is approaching "the line" when merely making a polite post that differs in opinion.

All that said, yesterday I was almost moved to break my silence and participate in a thread on the WBCCI forums - that is until I saw that the thread was already locked. Then I saw another interesting thread and it was locked, too. I guess the moderators think they know when we should stop discussing a topic.

That is no way to run a forum. I will not participate as long as it is an over moderated "pleasantville" (as someone else has termed it). If we cannot openly debate issues of importance to the club, even in the private "members only" section, then forums has no purpose for being. If things do not change, I predict that it will quickly become as irrelevant and underutilized as the old WBCCI forums it replaced. And that is a sad development.
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Old 11-08-2009, 09:32 PM   #22
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I am not an "outsider". I have an Airstream and participate in this Forum.

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Old 11-08-2009, 09:57 PM   #23
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I am dismayed by the people who will tell you that if you are a member, you have some special understanding over those who do not. I do not quite understand the assumption that if you somehow pay your $55 plus unit dues, you are somehow "In The Know". You absolutely, positively do not need to be a member to make an informed decision about the club and its status. That $55 doesn’t give you extra special experiences that somehow makes you better.
In the end it is about camping and enjoying your Airstream with other like minded people. Whether you do that as only an AirForums member, a WBCCI member or some combination of the two – you are no better or worse than somebody else – no matter what others say.
I am an Insider in more ways than one and I love to contribute to WBCCI & the VAC. Not everybody appreciates that contribution but most do. I, despite my misgivings about the direction WBCCI is going, contribute because I can. I also have contributed on these forums when called.
I believe that people on the outside should not be treated like the plague but always thought of as a potential member of WBCCI just waiting to be won over.
In that light, the only question is “What do we need to do to WIN them over?” Once you answer that and act upon it, you have a turnaround in membership numbers and the health of the club.
Personally, I like hearing from the outsiders – if I were in charge of WBCCI – they would be my barometer. So you outsiders – SPEAK UP – be heard. Somebody is going to listen and when they do, they will have your hearts and support. Those with the deaf ear will not.
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Old 11-10-2009, 04:06 AM   #24
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Oh ya thats 23 yes 23 new members this year that do enjoy us!!!!!
A growing Unit!!! Excellent news. This great influx wouldn't have anything to do with two Units disbanding in your region would it?
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Old 11-10-2009, 04:19 AM   #25
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I am dismayed by the people who will tell you that if you are a member, you have some special understanding over those who do not. I do not quite understand the assumption that if you somehow pay your $55 plus unit dues, you are somehow "In The Know". You absolutely, positively do not need to be a member to make an informed decision about the club and its status. That $55 doesn’t give you extra special experiences that somehow makes you better.
In the end it is about camping and enjoying your Airstream with other like minded people. Whether you do that as only an AirForums member, a WBCCI member or some combination of the two – you are no better or worse than somebody else – no matter what others say.
I am an Insider in more ways than one and I love to contribute to WBCCI & the VAC. Not everybody appreciates that contribution but most do. I, despite my misgivings about the direction WBCCI is going, contribute because I can. I also have contributed on these forums when called.
I believe that people on the outside should not be treated like the plague but always thought of as a potential member of WBCCI just waiting to be won over.
In that light, the only question is “What do we need to do to WIN them over?” Once you answer that and act upon it, you have a turnaround in membership numbers and the health of the club.
Personally, I like hearing from the outsiders – if I were in charge of WBCCI – they would be my barometer. So you outsiders – SPEAK UP – be heard. Somebody is going to listen and when they do, they will have your hearts and support. Those with the deaf ear will not.
Tim, usually I agree with you fully. I think you are a very sharp man and had come to that conclusion before we met this past summer...
You statement is somewhat flawed. To say someone knows about something with out experience is just flawed in my eyes. That is on the same plane as me saying I just read this book on brain surgery and now I am ready to put you under. What if the book was written by someone that did not know what they were doing? What if they were basing cerebral dissection on the writings of some one that had written about it? I feel you cannot be an expert until you have walked the trail.

Though I have no doubt that Mikethefixit had a very bad experience attempting to see what the WBCCI was about, what if he had the first encounter was you or I? What if his first rally ever had been Cherry Blossom or family camping at Baker Acres?
If that had happened, he might just be sitting in a totally different Lazyboy pointing his anger in a totally different direction.
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Old 11-10-2009, 05:55 AM   #26
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Frank,

I think there is a difference between the camping experience and political experience.
If Mike is talking about what I think he is talking about - he is mentioning that the club has problems that if left unchecked, will serve to further the decline in membership. You do not have to be a dues paying member to see that. There is enough discussion right here on these forums to form a reasonably informed opinion about the health of the club from any stand point.

From the perspective of camping, you are right - Mikes experience with either you or I could make or break him . That experience would not be based on the health of the club, but rather the quality of our character in welcoming him. That is why the Units are the true backbone of the WBCCI. If the experience at that level is not good, you will lose a member.

As an analogy to what Mike was saying as I interpreted it, lets say that someone who has never been a member of WBCCI states that the club sucks - that would probably be an unfair blanket assessment. If that same person states that the club is not for him because of the red coats and marching bands, that would be a fair assessment. If that person said that Red Numbers on your trailer were stupid, that would obviously be an inappropriate assessment. And, if that non-member says that there are great people in WBCCI but the leadership is blowing it for the club, that would be a fair assessment.

And as I was trying to point out - you do not need to be a $55+ dues paying member to come to conclusions that are fair and astute. Beyond that , I think we are actually all on the same page.
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:38 AM   #27
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Is it just me, or did more than a few posts get dropped here?
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:42 AM   #28
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Is it just me, or did more than a few posts get dropped here?
There was a computer glitch, that caused a bunch of posts to disappear, about a half days worth, according to Janet, one of the mods.

Apparently, they cannot be retrieved either.

I lost about 6 posts myself.

Andy
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:47 AM   #29
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They have infiltrated here as well. I have been censored and I had some very profound things to say. Andy say it is not so!! Did you sell your soul????

Just joking but I was wondering what happen to page 3.
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:26 AM   #30
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Is it just me, or did more than a few posts get dropped here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick6930 View Post
They have infiltrated here as well. I have been censored and I had some very profound things to say. Andy say it is not so!! Did you sell your soul????

Just joking but I was wondering what happen to page 3.
There was a service interuption resulting in posts, PM's, etc being lost. Lost 5 or 6 myself. This may be what you encountered.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f318...ion-58334.html

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Kevin
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:37 AM   #31
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A growing Unit!!! Excellent news. This great influx wouldn't have anything to do with two Units disbanding in your region would it?
Nope, not that I know of. All are new in that 23 count. NOW, we would welcome any other member that may have lost their Unit but this growth is not because of that.

As a matter of fact some are from areas outside of Region 7.
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Old 11-10-2009, 08:02 AM   #32
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Our experience with the WBCC, (don't think the I had been added yet), was in the early 80's when we found out there was a Rally in the Adirondacks.
We decided to attend, show off our "new" 63 Safari and get an estimate from a factory rep who would be there. Had to park in a non-member area. It was "nice", although it was 3/4mi away, and the Rep needed a golf cart to inspect our trailer. We were interested in joining and were told we needed a sponsor, kind'a thought the "63" would be our entry ticket. Nieve newbie.

First impressions....very structured, everyone preciesly positioned, all activities on a strict timetable and not one AS without the red numbers, ('cept us), looked a lot like the flight line I had left behind in the '60's. Oh, and yes, there may have been family's attending, but most were couples.
We did get to observe one group fuction, it reminded me of a Friday night prayer meeting with Berets. Saw no campfires, no campfire music, nobody just sitting around enjoying each others company with a few AB.
I don't doubt that the members attending were enjoying themselves, but we decided that this was not the reason we got the trailer. I got the impression that not many there had much of an AS life beyond the WBCC.

We have Stream'd happy ever since.

Would we re-consider joining?, they are Streamers after all....

Maybe, when we are a "little" older and more mature we may fit in better...

We still enjoy dock'n in the 'Dacks, after we settle down a little.....?

Waiting for the cows to come home...they will you know, but will it be in time?
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:27 PM   #33
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There are many sources of info about the WBCCI:

1. From members who love it.

2. From members who agree the top leaders are out to lunch, but their units are fine.

3. From members who quit, or are about to quit.

4. From people who went to a WBCCI function and decided it wasn't for them.

5. From people who read the many threads and make assessment based on what they read judging what posts make sense and those that don't, i.e., who's an accurate reporter and that judgment is based on the content of the post and the reputation of the reporter.

6. Go to one or more WBCCI rallies, have contact with WBCCI members when trying to join or just having joined.

All of the first 5 are reasonable sources of information and when I was teaching history, we relied on all of them in varying degrees. Not having a time machine I was unable to join the Constitutlonal Convention, but I know a lot about it (since the proceedings were closed, I would have to rely on others to report what happened even if I could go back to 1787).

Those who are interested in joining the WBCCI make judgments based on all or some of these factors just like a historian or other social science researcher makes judgments and with thought, analysis, life experience and a little luck. They can make an accurate judgment as to what's happening with the WBCCI. No doubt there will be conflicting reports and personal experiences.

I in fact went to a small 4CU rally and it was fine. I have never read anything negative about the 4CU or a few other units. When I look at all the information available, that was not enough.

I do not wish the WBCCI a bad future. Given my analysis of all the information and the nature of organizations in contemporary America, I don't think the future is good for the WBCCI, and the recent past has not been good for the organization either. I am a student of community and organizational structures, and being an Airstream owner, and someone interested in history, I find the discussion very interesting. Frank calls it "lurking". I call it "research". In good faith, I make suggestions to improve things well aware that unsolicited advice is rarely listened to. Even solicited advice is often ignored. But, you don't have to be a member to see what's happening just as you don't have to be in Congress to have an opinion about it.

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Old 11-10-2009, 02:33 PM   #34
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My wife and I were members for two years. We started out as MAL's but a nice lady from the South Florida Unit called us and we joined the unit. As we were both still working, we were not active (seems all the rallies/meetings included weekdays) but were planning on going to the next Florida State Rally and then, after retiring we wanted to do a caravan.

Then the whole "lets rename the club" thing started. Then the "lets let anyone with a SOB MoHo in or stay in, and keep any office they hold" thing started. So there was a vote. Both proposals soundly defeated. I was thrilled.

A scant few months later an officer in our unit proposed the resurrection of the MoHo proposal, received majority backing from the unit and merrily went of to Region to start the whole thing over.

I am somewhat ashamed to say that I exploded (very unlike me) and resigned immediately with a letter to HQ. Never received a reply although the same nice lady from the unit called to ask why we had quit. She just sighed when we told her.

My point is that before posting about the WBCCI, you should at least give it a shot, especially if you live near one of the progressive units. If it turns out you don't like it, you've earned the right to vote with your feet. But, with any luck, you may love it and be the one (are you out there Neo?) to fix it...

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