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Old 09-25-2006, 08:42 PM   #169
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Quote:
Since you seem to understand and approve of his action
is that called getting one's exercise by jiumping to conclusions and related activity?

What I advocate is reading what was actually written and not what you think might have been said. What I advocate is being open to the arguments made and where they came from.

To me the key is one I see often. That is making a lot of talk but not doing the walk. It is making a pretense at the walk so as to not loose face from all the talk.

There is no sense duplicating something that already exists. There is no sense in expending effort when it is not needed.

WBCCI has enough trouble with a lot of talk not creating much action. The action I suggest considering here is that of first demonstrating the need for organization before trying to organize. I think that is worth more that it has been given in this thread.
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Old 09-25-2006, 08:51 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leipper
(snip) There is no sense duplicating something that already exists. There is no sense in expending effort when it is not needed.

WBCCI has enough trouble with a lot of talk not creating much action. The action I suggest considering here is that of first demonstrating the need for organization before trying to organize. I think that is worth more that it has been given in this thread.
What a good number of folks are saying is that they have indeed tried to make things work with the exisiting NM unit and the western Colorado unit. The results were less than satisfactory. They quit those units, and they won't rejoin. There's the need.

Lynn
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Old 09-25-2006, 08:59 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by azflycaster
I too am not happy with the R11 VP's rejection of the FCU. I am also apalled at some of the comments being made by "old school" WBCCI leadership.



The above quote comes from the WBCCI forum area.

I was to host the first rally for the new FCU. I would like to go ahead with the rally if I can get enough interest. Look for a thread in the near future to spell out the details for this event.
If you guys start something can I be an affiliate member. If you aren't WBCCI then can I be a real member even if you aren't a WACCI club? I'ld be honored to pay the dues and I think I know more than a few other yankees who believe in people more than organizations who would also join. Serve it up and they will come.

I WACCI R U

New rule for WACCI units. You can be a secret WACCI Unit and not tell anyone.
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Old 09-25-2006, 09:04 PM   #172
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"The action I suggest considering here is that of first demonstrating the need for organization before trying to organize. I think that is worth more that it has been given in this thread."__________________

I have been an outspoken critic of the WBCCI based on personal contact with some members, reading the BB and watching people use this forum to air their dirty laundry. The chances of my joining were between little and none until the idea of a FCU came up.

I wonder if Chester is familar with that old Groucho Marx quote, "I wouldn't want to belong to a club that would accept me as a member".

It's beyond my capacity to understand the hidebound ways of WBCCI leadership. Didn't I see a thread show the declining numbers here?

Way to go Chester.
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Old 09-25-2006, 09:39 PM   #173
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Bryan: I will try again for a clear, direct and simple statement from you. Would you please list here for me all the positive consequences flowing from Region 11's First V.P., Chester Haughawaut's, disapproval of a one year provisional charter for the proposed Four Corners Camping Unit? Thank you.
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Old 09-25-2006, 09:47 PM   #174
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And, I would like to know by response from Bryan:
"What are the losses/gains - suffered/achieved by Region 11 & WBCCI for allowing the Provisional Charter of the FCU vs. the losses/gains - suffered/achieved by WBCCI & Region 11 for disallowing the Provisional Charter of the FCU?
Compare and contrast....
(My old Senior Administrative Policy Prof from Harvard would be so proud of this question)....
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Old 09-25-2006, 10:09 PM   #175
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hi ken...

sorry to read about the denial...are you really all that surprised?

i'm not.

having seen how long it took to accept mohos, argosy, b vans and so on...

are you not aware of how hard it was for vac to fully form?

from a strategic perspective it was a mistake to propose the 'new' unit in anything but the traditional way...10 or more members...yadda, yadda.

including any reference to the forums was a hugh mistake.

so too was openly planning here on the forum...where not everyone reading is supportive of these efforts....

should have all been done via private messages or email...

or a camping trip or 2...

some of the points are just goofy, as others have noted...but don't ignore these points...

they provide much insight into wb officer thinking...

some other observations...

'no compelling reason to approve'...do the reasons for a new unit need to be compelling?

while there is vague but valid reference to stealing members from other units...there is NO mention of the mal members who were planning to finally join a unit....isn't that a good thing? or those ready to drop out completely if not for a new unit?

ken are you sure some vac folks who are wb officers may not have opposed this new unit...and said so quietly?

65gt...watch it, we are agreeing way too much...5-6 regions max...i agree.

another reason mals will not get a vote...the first order of business would be a national mal unit without a local geographic basis..

and here fred is your real reason why the proposal was denied and the 'positive consequences' of the denial (from a wb view)...

***approval would have lead to other proposals for other inventive units....cyber units, non traditional units, mal units, national units and so on....setting this denial precedent....will effective kill or slow other proposals for forum related units...


cheers
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Old 09-25-2006, 10:54 PM   #176
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I think that WBCCI (ala Region 11) is trying to pack all members into one mold here and it isn't working. I love the (incorrect) comment that people meet face to face, etc... baloney! With so many WBCCI members out and about caravanning or full-timing, how do they do that??? How do they stay in touch? I know the president of our unit spent months at a time away from our homebase but coordinated and communicated via email (and phone where available) to get things done. And that seemed to work just fine.

I can say from experience that in our Burning Man activities we conduct 100% of our business (*February through September) on the net. The only face to face we have is on the playa for the 2 weeks we are there. The rest is all net or phone (via Skype).

There is absolutely no harm in a virtual unit. In fact it can only do good. If it fails the WBCCI is out nothing. If it is rejected outwardly, as was done, it would surely mean more lost memberships. My question is this... Would WBCCI garner more or less memberships by the formation of this unit??? I bet more. I bet that it becomes one of the biggest units in the WBCCI. It fits so many peoples lifestyles and caters to the younger demographic and of people on the road.

The Region 11 response sounds suspiciously like one who is a firm believer in the Luddite Society (somebody should make these poor people a web site - more people might join) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite. It seems like there is no belief in the viability of a virtual unit of sorts. But WBCCI better close it's eyes to the WDCU.... Because they are doing a brisk business in exactly that fashion.

FCU, I lend my support to you as visionaries of change. So much so that I will donate web space and assistance if needed in getting off the ground to your effort (I know you have a site set up right now but if needed, that offer stands). Let people sign up to be members and ante up a couple of bucks for a membership. Lets see where it goes... Sounds like you would have 30 members already (including ours as associates if in WBCCI or as charter if not). That is better than many of the units already in existence. What say ye????
Leo, Nicely put!!
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Old 09-25-2006, 11:01 PM   #177
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Greetings 2air...

And as usual, thanks for your clearheaded analysis.
You are correct on all points of course, but not entirely right.

To me it would not have been "right" to be anything less than honest in explaining the philosophy and objectives of the proposed Four Corners Unit, but it would have been the "correct" way to garner approval.

Open discussion on these Forums was the "right" way to foster open discussion, but it was not the correct way to garner approval.

I am convinced that postive outcomes will flow from this defeated attempt to transform the WBBCI and breath some life into it. We know more about the entrenched leadership that Leipper embodies and personifies on these forums each day. Notice how he attacks me and my friends who inspired this effort. He accuses us of "bitching" and "talking the talk but not walking the walk." So defensive, so rude, and so wrong is he as he revels in our defeat.

I have owned three Airstreams
I have belonged to the NM Unit since the fall of 2001.
I was 2nd VP for a year and 1st VP for a short time before I was "uninstalled."
I was Region 11 Contributing Editor to the Blue Beret

Ken Johansen has owned three or four Airstreams.
He was 2d VP and 1st VP of the Colorado Unit before he was "uninstalled."
He is a devoted Boy Scout leader and a successful CPA.

Jerry Heald owns two Airstreams
He was the Membership Chairman and Trustee of the NM Unit
He is a rally planner extraordinaire
He is also a retired nuclear physicist

Oh, and me; I spent 27 years talking the talk and walking the walk in the USMC advancing to the rank of colonel. But then, I know nothing about leadership or organizational dynamics.
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Old 09-25-2006, 11:17 PM   #178
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Ken - Can you explain to me why the Regional 1st VP made the decision and not the Regional President? The WBCCI constitution clearly states:

Quote:
Article XI Club Organization
Section 2
Applications for Unit Charters shall be made in writing to the Board of Trustees through the President of the Region in whose geographic area the proposed unit seeks to organize. The Region President may, upon being satisfied that the proposed Unit has complied with the minimum qualifications, as fixed by said Board, issue to such proposed Unit a provisional charter. Any such charter so issued shall terminate on the Fourth of July next following the date of its issuance unless sooner terminated by action of said Board in granting or denying such application. A Provisional Unit may elect officers, collect Unit and International dues and engage in usual Unit activities, but until issued a permanent Unit Charter shall not be entitled to vote or otherwise participate in the Annual Delegates Meeting.
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Old 09-25-2006, 11:22 PM   #179
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Ken,
My hat is off to you, Ken Johansen, and Jerry Heald for your efforts. I intentionally laid low on this one, not bringing the Texas connection into the mix for fear of backlash in the approval process for not being confined to the geographic description. Obviously, that now matters not.
I spent 28 years walking the walk and talking the talk of the professional association for life insurance and financial service professionals rising to become Chairman and CEO of the Political Action Committee for Texas.
So, I too believe that I know a thing ot two about organizational dynamics, and I applaud your integrity and assertiveness in attempting to get something off the ground that is desparately needed as I perceive the WBCCI. I think we had some early beginnings of this conversation in Monument Valley in June 2005.
I hope our paths cross and we meet up again.
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Old 09-25-2006, 11:25 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klevan
And as usual, thanks for your clearheaded analysis.
You are correct on all points of course, but not entirely right.

To me it would not have been "right" to be anything less than honest in explaining the philosophy and objectives of the proposed Four Corners Unit, but it would have been the "correct" way to garner approval. ...
Ken,

As a Marine you know that the best way to take an mountain or building is not through the front door but from behind where they are not looking for you.

Best of Luck,

Bill
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Old 09-25-2006, 11:26 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azflycaster
Ken - Can you explain to me why the Regional 1st VP made the decision and not the Regional President? The WBCCI constitution clearly states:
Was Chester the decision maker or just the messenger?

Bill
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Old 09-26-2006, 01:27 AM   #182
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Bryan,

Would it be impertinent for me to ask how your response to the proposed Four Corners Unit comports with your new position as a "Communication Advisory Network Member?" The August Blue Beret stated that the Network Member's task was to, "be listening and looking for trends in member thought... [where] No topics related to WBCCI are sacred. Concerns accompanied with recommendations for positive solutions are requested."

If you are a part of that process then shouldn't you be communicating the concerns of these members with impartiality to Renee Ettline so that she can present them directly to President Don Shafer? Instead, your statements so far have the appearance of being defensive, biased and argumentative. Perhaps it is asking too much for you to advocate members suggestions and concerns, but is it asking to much of you to at least be impartial?
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