I too am not happy with the R11 VP's rejection of the FCU. I am also apalled at some of the comments being made by "old school" WBCCI leadership.
Quote:
In this case, it wasn't a group of folks who had a need to organize their activities but rather a group of discontents with no track record who wanted to organize without demonstrated need for that organization.
The above quote comes from the WBCCI forum area.
I was to host the first rally for the new FCU. I would like to go ahead with the rally if I can get enough interest. Look for a thread in the near future to spell out the details for this event.
I was to host the first rally for the new FCU. I would like to go ahead with the rally if I can get enough interest. Look for a thread in the near future to spell out the details for this event.
Hi Azflycaster:
As you know, there are many ghost towns in the Southwest. Well, in that vein, the officially disapproved Four Corners Camping Unit can proclaim its existence effective as of the disapproval date, September 21, 2006, and operate as the first WBCCI "Phantom Unit" in the nation. Or maybe it should just wear its fate and operate as a "formally disapproved" unit. After all, the prospective new unit members are not the losers; the WBCCI is the loser. So I say "Fun Forward" and let the unit propser!
Some wise travel trailer club may eventually come along and try to sign up the new unit. Who will be the first on the doorstep: the Tin Can Tourists? The Good Sam Club? Some other club or one yet to be formed?
Maybe we can call ourselves the "Chesternuts" in honor of our liberator and wear enlarged acorn caps as headgear. Our theme song will be crooned by Nat King Cole on the Ipod while we nip a little Jack Frost. Can Chip and Dale be our mascots? So much to talk about, so Let's Party! Keep that first Rally date on the calendar, Azfc, and tell me when and where to quietly appear. See you down the trail.
__________________
Fred Coldwell, WBCCI #1510, AIR #2675
Denver, Colorado - WBCCI Unit 24
Charter Associate Member FCU
Airstream Life "Old Aluminum Adventures"
Since you seem to understand and approve of his action, could you please list here for me all the positive consequences flowing from Region 11's First V.P., Chester Haughawaut's, disapproval of a one year provisional charter for the proposed Four Corner's Camping Unit? Thank you!
Fred. thanks for beating me to the asking while I was mowing the yard.
Bryan, please.....let's hear all the positives consequences flowing from towing the party line on this one. And do educate us so that we might "learn" why we are so ignorant.
Sheesh...this all reminds me of the years I spent up to my neck in the politics of running a political action committee for a professional organization of 5000 members.
All the dang mavens and their By-Laws fights and turf wars over what could be done and not done, and what could be supported under "proper" interpretation and what couldn't, and who was included and who was excluded....who was compliant and honored tradition and who didn't, and who were rebels and who weren't....labeling and blame fixing, and king building.....and constant STRATEGIZING and vote counting, and finger wetting, and monitoring over EVERY decision that I made for years trying to move an organization out of "the way it had always been done" into greater effiency and self reliance.
Many times when I saw things that needed change, I would meet with my Board to recommend a course of action, and all I got was resistance....and sometimes after getting all the resistance, I would just issue executive order as CEO and LEAD ANYWAY.
And sometimes, organizations deserve to DIE. No less than TWO YEARS after my final day as Chairman and CEO, due to term limits, my successors turned leadership tails and ran, outsourcing the administrative functions from Austin, to the National office 1500 miles away from the people they serve. Membership has declined precipitiously since then and the organization will die in due course.....after a storied 100 yr plus history.
I say all that to say that in picking your battles to fight, the WBCCI must also pick the battles THEY fight.
Submit the NAME you want for the unit.
Call it "The Four Corners Camping Unit" if you want to, and leave off any mention of a state if you want to....if they don't know there is only ONE FOUR CORNERS in the USA, maybe they are not as travelled as they should be.
IF WBCCI wants to deny the charter and not accept the dues money, they are cutting off their nose to spite their faces....
Then answer the question: Will the WBCCI survive long term fighting to keep people out this way??...and is that what you want to be a part of???
Organizations need to adapt....but most of the time they die instead.
WBCCI desparately NEEDS an innovative by-laws committee to trash what they have, and re-invent themselves.....but they would have to fight every old-timer in the organization that does NOT want change to do it.
I am tired and rambling and should just probably erase all this and not post it.
These are the types of battles I do NOT want to fight because I have spent many professional hours fighting these type political battles within a political action committee where they were amplified because it was professional politics at stake.
Fighting these kind of battles in search of relaxation away from professional pressures is not my idea of recreation.
I may ulitmately decide to pay WBCCI dues through this newly chartered unit, because it would meet my needs much better than the local Lubbock TX unit, but my tolerance for by-laws fighting and exclusiveness for the sake of "that is the way we have always done it and we don't want to change", over inclusiveness and moving forward, is limited.
I think what I said 5 weeks ago still makes sense, especially in light of the Chester Edict.
Since you seem to understand and approve of his action
is that called getting one's exercise by jiumping to conclusions and related activity?
What I advocate is reading what was actually written and not what you think might have been said. What I advocate is being open to the arguments made and where they came from.
To me the key is one I see often. That is making a lot of talk but not doing the walk. It is making a pretense at the walk so as to not loose face from all the talk.
There is no sense duplicating something that already exists. There is no sense in expending effort when it is not needed.
WBCCI has enough trouble with a lot of talk not creating much action. The action I suggest considering here is that of first demonstrating the need for organization before trying to organize. I think that is worth more that it has been given in this thread.
(snip) There is no sense duplicating something that already exists. There is no sense in expending effort when it is not needed.
WBCCI has enough trouble with a lot of talk not creating much action. The action I suggest considering here is that of first demonstrating the need for organization before trying to organize. I think that is worth more that it has been given in this thread.
What a good number of folks are saying is that they have indeed tried to make things work with the exisiting NM unit and the western Colorado unit. The results were less than satisfactory. They quit those units, and they won't rejoin. There's the need.
Lynn
I too am not happy with the R11 VP's rejection of the FCU. I am also apalled at some of the comments being made by "old school" WBCCI leadership.
The above quote comes from the WBCCI forum area.
I was to host the first rally for the new FCU. I would like to go ahead with the rally if I can get enough interest. Look for a thread in the near future to spell out the details for this event.
If you guys start something can I be an affiliate member. If you aren't WBCCI then can I be a real member even if you aren't a WACCI club? I'ld be honored to pay the dues and I think I know more than a few other yankees who believe in people more than organizations who would also join. Serve it up and they will come.
I WACCI R U
New rule for WACCI units. You can be a secret WACCI Unit and not tell anyone.
"The action I suggest considering here is that of first demonstrating the need for organization before trying to organize. I think that is worth more that it has been given in this thread."__________________
I have been an outspoken critic of the WBCCI based on personal contact with some members, reading the BB and watching people use this forum to air their dirty laundry. The chances of my joining were between little and none until the idea of a FCU came up.
I wonder if Chester is familar with that old Groucho Marx quote, "I wouldn't want to belong to a club that would accept me as a member".
It's beyond my capacity to understand the hidebound ways of WBCCI leadership. Didn't I see a thread show the declining numbers here?
Bryan: I will try again for a clear, direct and simple statement from you. Would you please list here for me all the positive consequences flowing from Region 11's First V.P., Chester Haughawaut's, disapproval of a one year provisional charter for the proposed Four Corners Camping Unit? Thank you.
__________________
Fred Coldwell, WBCCI #1510, AIR #2675
Denver, Colorado - WBCCI Unit 24
Charter Associate Member FCU
Airstream Life "Old Aluminum Adventures"
And, I would like to know by response from Bryan:
"What are the losses/gains - suffered/achieved by Region 11 & WBCCI for allowing the Provisional Charter of the FCU vs. the losses/gains - suffered/achieved by WBCCI & Region 11 for disallowing the Provisional Charter of the FCU?
Compare and contrast....
(My old Senior Administrative Policy Prof from Harvard would be so proud of this question)....
sorry to read about the denial...are you really all that surprised?
i'm not.
having seen how long it took to accept mohos, argosy, b vans and so on...
are you not aware of how hard it was for vac to fully form?
from a strategic perspective it was a mistake to propose the 'new' unit in anything but the traditional way...10 or more members...yadda, yadda.
including any reference to the forums was a hugh mistake.
so too was openly planning here on the forum...where not everyone reading is supportive of these efforts....
should have all been done via private messages or email...
or a camping trip or 2...
some of the points are just goofy, as others have noted...but don't ignore these points...
they provide much insight into wb officer thinking...
some other observations...
'no compelling reason to approve'...do the reasons for a new unit need to be compelling?
while there is vague but valid reference to stealing members from other units...there is NO mention of the mal members who were planning to finally join a unit....isn't that a good thing? or those ready to drop out completely if not for a new unit?
ken are you sure some vac folks who are wb officers may not have opposed this new unit...and said so quietly?
65gt...watch it, we are agreeing way too much...5-6 regions max...i agree.
another reason mals will not get a vote...the first order of business would be a national mal unit without a local geographic basis..
and here fred is your real reason why the proposal was denied and the 'positive consequences' of the denial (from a wb view)...
***approval would have lead to other proposals for other inventive units....cyber units, non traditional units, mal units, national units and so on....setting this denial precedent....will effective kill or slow other proposals for forum related units...
cheers
2air'
__________________ all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.johnson
we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
To me, a key factor is that this idea for a Unit came about not through the process of a group of friends getting together at times and then deciding to organize but rather as a means to avoid working within the system to effect change. That is the competition that was of concern and I think it is a valid concern.
Bryan – you can’t always try to teach a lesson from each post you disagree with. This is not a business nor a conference room. This is a club where members spend their FREE time – their DOWN time – their LEISURE time where they want to relax and have fun.
The impetus for the 4 Corners Unit (4CU) started right here:
What’s REAL here is that not only did a few MEMBERS get together and decide this was a better choice than continuing with some of the existing units in the area. This effort has also brought brand spanking new members into the fold. FANTASTIC!
You’re witnessing a handful of new unit founders that are willing (volunteering) to put in more effort into the WBCCI than is currently being done (more leaders = more effort = more results). FANTASTIC!
What is truly sad about what we’ve all just witnessed is:
1) Ken resigned as a VP of the New Mexico Unit.
2) The Region 11 VP that just denied the request is from the very same unit that Ken had problems with which caused him to resign.
Shouldn’t the Region 11 VP have recused himself from even looking at this request as it’s a clear conflict of interest? You bet he should have!
Should the leadership in any Region be making decisions that would stunt growth of the club at this point in time? Cause loyal volunteers to question whether they even want to renew their membership? What’s that phrase? Way to go BOYZ!
At some point in time it’s really necessary for Leaders to stop looking at their personal agendas and start acting on behalf of what’s best for the WBCCI. With a whole new crop of people coming on board that give a damn this WILL start to happen. But to let this little faux pas stand is an insult to all those that are putting in efforts to GROW the club.
I sure hope this little mess doesn’t detract anyone from joining the prestigious and historic Wally Byam Caravan Club. The club as a whole and it’s entire history far outshines any bad decisions leaders keep making.
I for one recognize the Four Corners Unit. I don’t care if it’s in Region 11 or if it’s in Region 2. I think one way or another it’s going to be official in one region or another sooner than later.
Anyone else care to support the 4CU? When you guys get it going (Jack Rabbit like or not) I’d like to send you $1 to become an affiliate member!
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__________________
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I think that WBCCI (ala Region 11) is trying to pack all members into one mold here and it isn't working. I love the (incorrect) comment that people meet face to face, etc... baloney! With so many WBCCI members out and about caravanning or full-timing, how do they do that??? How do they stay in touch? I know the president of our unit spent months at a time away from our homebase but coordinated and communicated via email (and phone where available) to get things done. And that seemed to work just fine.
I can say from experience that in our Burning Man activities we conduct 100% of our business (*February through September) on the net. The only face to face we have is on the playa for the 2 weeks we are there. The rest is all net or phone (via Skype).
There is absolutely no harm in a virtual unit. In fact it can only do good. If it fails the WBCCI is out nothing. If it is rejected outwardly, as was done, it would surely mean more lost memberships. My question is this... Would WBCCI garner more or less memberships by the formation of this unit??? I bet more. I bet that it becomes one of the biggest units in the WBCCI. It fits so many peoples lifestyles and caters to the younger demographic and of people on the road.
The Region 11 response sounds suspiciously like one who is a firm believer in the Luddite Society (somebody should make these poor people a web site - more people might join) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite. It seems like there is no belief in the viability of a virtual unit of sorts. But WBCCI better close it's eyes to the WDCU.... Because they are doing a brisk business in exactly that fashion.
FCU, I lend my support to you as visionaries of change. So much so that I will donate web space and assistance if needed in getting off the ground to your effort (I know you have a site set up right now but if needed, that offer stands). Let people sign up to be members and ante up a couple of bucks for a membership. Lets see where it goes... Sounds like you would have 30 members already (including ours as associates if in WBCCI or as charter if not). That is better than many of the units already in existence. What say ye????
Leo, Nicely put!!
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Our theme song will be crooned by Nat King Cole on the Ipod while we nip a little Jack Frost. 
Can Chip and Dale be our mascots? So much to talk about, so Let's Party! Keep that first Rally date on the calendar, Azfc, and tell me when and where to quietly appear. 
See you down the trail. 
6000+ Airsteam families having fun! 
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