Vintage sub-units?

[Midamrail]

Following on the heels of the recent Blue Beret survey thread...


Has anyone tried, or are there reasons not to try, creating Vintage sub-units of their local units wherein members would have to be WBCCI, VAC, and local unit members but would also be members of a Vintage sub-unit?

Our scenario is that we're members of the WBCCI, VAC, and our local unit. We've found the people in our local unit to be friendly, welcoming, and hospitable, but we haven't been pleased with our experiences at traditional WBCCI rallies, especially compared to the Vintage rallies. There seems to be a trend in our metro area of younger, working people joining the unit - sometimes with vintage trailers, sometimes with brand-new Safaris and Bambis - and then attending one rally and never coming back. In driving through our area, I'm surprised at how many vintage Airstreams - many restored - I see parked in driveways that are obviously used. I've been seeing more and more lately, but I know most of their owners are not involved in the WBCCI. I think they're missing out on all the friendship and enjoyment we've derived from our VAC experiences, and our local unit is missing out on bigger membership numbers, new members, and the opportunities for distinctive ralllies and caravans.

Would it make sense to work the local units to create a Vintage sub-unit? The Vintage sub-unit would recruit Vintage owners and hold occasional caravans and rallies designed more like the VAC rallies but always make them available to the regular unit members, and the Vintage sub-unit could work with the regular unit and the region to create Vintage parking, open houses, and other traditional features of VAC rallies at the regular WBCCI rallies.

I think the end result would be an increase in unit membership, a higher retention rate for new members, the building of a "bridge" between the more traditional membership and a newer membership, more appealing WBCCI events, and an eventual subtle and manageable change of mindset in the WBCCI.

[smily]

I have actually done exactly as you are referring.

I do have some correspondance on the issue from the President of the Vintage Club if you choose to follow up on the issue.

Getting a unit sanctioned is an undertaking but not too bad. The difference in your plan and mine, I was going to develop a VIntage unit locally, say here in the Southeast. I actually solicited members on this very forum. I will search and find thread.

The President of VAC pointed out that the VAC is an intraclub of the International membership. Therefore, their Rallies and events are an International type as compared to regional or local unit level. If you choose to do so as a local unit, you have to allow any WBCCI member to participate whether thay are vintage or not. (Which is what I think you indicated you would do). That brings the point that since the rallies and events you plan are not really exclsive to Vintage or whatever your focus is. So really you wind up with another Local unit.

I believe another member has suggested you do just that, split from your current unit and develop a new one that is comprised of members that share your interest. Those measures have always existed. There are some minimum requirements for you to sanction a new unit and or maintain a unit.

Go fo it! You are doing well and your drive will prove to be successful. Just like I said in the beginning and all along, it will be what YOU make of it. Make it a good one. I am looking forward to attending one of your units events.

Smily

[overlander63]

Might not be a bad idea, on a unit-by-unit basis. Some units may only have a couple of vintage coaches, while others may have the majority being vintage.
I think it would be a good idea, for a nominal surcharge, to have vintage sub-units available. They could have vintage-only activities, hold clinics, even have a monthly "trailer repairing" day, where everybody gets together and helps out a member with a project, or two.
The forums here are great, but, for example, if I wanted to help you install a new black water holding tank, I couldn't, because we are too far away from each other. Someone closer to you may be able to help you, and in exchange, maybe you could help them install that awning they want.
Terry

[smily]

One of the biggest issues, believe it or not, (Argosys), discrimination is bad Joo Joo in the WBCCI.

The bylaws and constitution dictate that if you are a WBCCI unit, you must allow any and all WBCCI member to participate and you must allow any Airstream owner to join.

I am not certain how the VAC governs. Can a member or Officer of the VAC explain the membership criteria?
I think you have to own a vintage unit to be a member, but can you preclude WBCCI members, who do not own a vintage, from partcipating in you functions?

Smily

[thenewkid64]

Ken,

I am not an Officer, but I was a member and have sent in my renewal. This is how I remeber it:

The type of member is based on what you own. if the coach is "vintage" then you can be a full member with voting rights, and serve on the club board. Non vintage are considered associate members and can join, but cannot vote, or serve on the board. This is the same way in local units. Only full unit embers can do these things too. Associate members cannot. This is following the WBCCI club guidelines.

So anyone who wants to can be a member. The type of member is determined by the age of your coach.

[overlander63]

goes down in flames.
It sounded like a good idea at the time.
Terry

[59toaster]

Well this thread seems to have two topics. Here is my attempt to cover both and how they relate to each other from the comments made by Midamrail.

To start off: I am that young working person. My wife and I are in the middle of restoring, from the ground up a 1959 Caravanner. I intend to Join the WBCCI and the VAC once we have our coach road worthy. I have looked at what both have to offer.

There is a combinations of things that has caused me concern with the WBCCI, VAC and it's events. Price of some of the ralleys and events, Time and timing is my other big issue. With two kids, full time job and all that goes with it most of the Ralley's are just not possible for me and my family.

Honestly the price is fair on every one I took the time to reseach to see what I was getting but the problem for me is I can't always attend the full durration of the events and in most cases that means well over half of what the money was going to cover is wasted.

I camp as much for economic reasons as anything. For what it would cost for a Hotel for one night for the four of us I can often camp for 2-3 days or more if you take into concideration food. Tend to dine out when hoteling. A event costing $500 for 4-5 days of activities is tough if you can't participate in about 50% of what that money covers for both time and activity missed. I bet many familys have the same problem.

Economics is also a big reason a lot of younger folks are in vintage coaches as well. I can't afford to lay out $40k on new or nearly new coach. I can however afford to lay out $2k, a lot of sweat equity and cash in small doses over a longer period of time and restore a vintage coach. I see a lot of Vintage owners are yonger working stiffs just like me. There is a flip side in that there is also many Older Vintage owners that do restore or are original owners and their going to have differnt things appeal to them. (like limited rug rats running around hollering LOL).


These Ralleys seem to be planed by and for those that are retired for the most part. Time is not a concern because the kids are out of the nest and they have plenty of vaction time available if they are not already retired.

Many of them conflict with Kids school scheduals . In addition to the School problem many don't make provisions for kids very well if at all. So I either have to take my kid out of School to alow for travel time or I have to miss stuff to not interfere with their important scheduals. Then there is limited activities they are interested in so they get board.

I think what might help to bring in new members is to have some "Family" events durring the summer months and the breaks at locations that will have some stuff to interest the kids. Try to find locations that offer something like a water park or beach nearby where they can do their thing While we do ours.

To sum it up there needs to be some change in many places to draw the younger folks and I mean under 40 with family back in. While the folks I have met both online and in person that are WBCCI/VAC members are great, freindly, helpful, people the over all structure of the WBCCI/VAC is not family oriented.

[InsideOut]

Here's a link to the VAC Membership Website which explains the different levels of membership.

Shari

[thenewkid64]

Originally posted by argosy20
goes down in flames.
It sounded like a good idea at the time.

Terry,

This is not necessarily a bad idea, just one that will not work within the current framework and guidelines of the WBCCI as it stands today. The WBCCI as a whole is all about inclusion. There is a Classic Caravan Club that had to apply numerous times to be an intra club of the WBCCI. They at first wanted, or so I was told, to restrict membership to the intra club to ONLY silver, only classic shaped(read as pre widebody)trailers, period. No Motorhomes, no Argosy's, no squarestreams, b-vans, etc. International would not allow that as it was exclusionary under the International club guidelines.

Please don't read that as ridicule of the Classic Caravan Club, but as an example of how narrowly some folks want to define what constitutes membership.

The Vintage club is a recognized asset to the WBCCI, that is why at Fl State they will be parked together and given a place that is highly visible to "show off".

The Forum Rallies are a great way to have folks from an area get together and have a non-structured rally. I am considering coordinating one in August for the Florida members. I just need to figure out where.

All of the discussion is good. It allows everyone to voice their opinion and be heard. Especially those that are not already a part of the WBCCI. Those posts are the ones I read to try to get a better grasp on what our unit can do to make it better and more attractive while balancing the needs and expectations of our current members.

[smily]

Brett, I am under impression the Classic Club has same rule and regs as VAC. With exception that their Full Members are Classic only, (Silver).
Is that not so?

Smily

[thenewkid64]

Ken,

I am under the same assumption as they are a chartered intra-club.

I am not a member, I have spoke to a member or two and when they hear I have an Argosy Motorhome I get looked at like I just broke wind in church So I will not be a member. I have decided that I will not fund that kind of attitude.

[overlander63]

Brett, depending on how many units you think will get together, and what you want to do, there are a couple of federal parks down here that are nearly deserted at that time of the year, and the volunteer attendants would probably get a kick out of having a bunch of old Airstreams camping out there. They have full power hookups, showers, laundry, etc. Last summer when we went, it was $8.00/night. Only drawback is, it is out of the way, and holding tanks are required, although they would allow "blue tanks" if that is all you had.
I think there are around 40 spaces there.
Terry

[thenewkid64]

Cool,

Lets talk about that next week at the rally!

[InsideOut]

The Denver CO WBCCI Unit has a good mix of vintage and non-vintage trailers. Of the 100+ members, approximately 35 of them own vintage trailers and are involved with the VAC IntraClub as well. Our unit welcomes and encourages members of all ages...both people & trailers! We don't have an official vintage "sub-unit" as we attend the same WBCCI unit rallies offered each month during the season.

Each of our monthly unit rallies has vintage trailers in attendance, some are more geared to the older trailers than others. Specifically, each spring we have a Maintenance Rally at which time everybody gathers at one of the member's ranches and we all work on each other’s trailers for a three-day weekend. It's a great opportunity to get some work done, share expertise, and build unity and friendships working side-by-side. Some of the "older folks with new trailers" enjoy tinkering and dabbling in polishing with the older trailers even though they wouldn't want to maintain one on a full-time basis...let's face it, a vintage trailer demands more maintenance.

Most of the rallies are Thurs-Sun with working folks showing up when they can. We also have 1 or 2 longer week (or longer) caravans to the International, Regional or semi-local events. Obviously, the vintage owners, who are typically working members do not as attend these longer trips in as big of numbers.

In addition, several of us vintage folks get together for "work parties", outside of the rally format. I guess this could kinda be considered a sub-unit, however it’s more just because we like hanging out together. The VAC members also host the Rocky Mountain VAC Rally each summer. Of course the attendance of vintage trailers at "The Big Event" is always higher than the monthly rallies, but vintage attendance at the regular rallies is growing each month. To date, the Rocky Mountain VAC rally has only been a once a year event…in time, every unit rally will become a mini-VAC rally.

This fall, the main DenCO Unit’s September rally is going to feature our vintage trailers at the big Thresher Days celebration in Yuma, CO with a parade through the fairgrounds and an Open House for the public. This was entirely planned by the WBCCI DenCo Unit (not VAC) to encourage and celebrate vintage involvement...

Are there still some “old-timers” that don’t like change and prefer to just sit and chat? Of course, change doesn’t happen overnight. But at least with our unit, the long-term members realize that they will need to change with the times if the unit and club are to remain active. This has been obvious by they influx of families and the “younger generations” to the membership and the involvement of the “under-50” crowd in Officer, Trustee & Board positions.

There isn’t a luncheon or rally that goes by that some of the older folks don’t make a special effort to show their appreciation and publicly applaud our involvement. They have been very open minded and excited to see the unit continue…even if it does mean they have to do things a little differently than it’s always been done.

I see it all as positive…

Shari

[Midamrail]

I think Terry has the right idea in terms of not making the issue such a formalized one. I don't think the WBCCI would have to sanction or approve vintage sub-units; "sub-unit" is probably the wrong word. Couldn't the units that wanted it form a vintage committee or something less formalized? That committee could then be placed in charge of holding rallies and caravans - many of them buddy events to encourage new members - with an overriding vintage theme and tailored to the needs of working owners and families that would still be open to all members of the unit. To discourage or disallow owners of newer units at those events would achieve the exact opposite outcome of the one that is desired.

Surely the WBCCI has to recognize two things:
1. While its ranks shrink, the VAC's ranks and the interest in older Airstreams and Argosies grows.
2. They shouldn't find rules and by-laws to prevent innovation and growth but instead find ways to encourage innovation and growth within the existing framework.

[87MH]

Thenewkid64 wrote: (concerning VAC)

"This is how I remeber it:

The type of member is based on what you own. if the coach is "vintage" then you can be a full member with voting rights, and serve on the club board. Non vintage are considered associate members and can join, but cannot vote, or serve on the board. This is the same way in local units."

Question on the "local units".

I interprete this to mean that there are "local units" within the VAC (such as units within a region). Is this correct?

If so, does anyone have the geographical location of the units?

I could see how the VAC unit could be fairly widespread - could (do) you meet and plan electronically?

Great info and honest questions on this thread!

[thenewkid64]

Originally posted by thenewkid64

The type of member is based on what you own. if the coach is "vintage" then you can be a full member with voting rights, and serve on the club board. Non vintage are considered associate members and can join, but cannot vote, or serve on the board. This is the same way in local units. Only full unit embers can do these things too. Associate members cannot. This is following the WBCCI club guidelines.

Dennis what I was trying to convey here is that the member/associate member rights are the same in the Vintage club as they are in any local unit. As far as I know there is not a regional, or local VAC chapter. Maybe there should be?

[InsideOut]

I interprete this to mean that there are "local units" within the VAC (such as units within a region). Is this correct?

If so, does anyone have the geographical location of the units?

There really aren't local units per se, there are Regional Representatives though. They pretty much follow the WBCCI Regions and can be found at: VAC Contacts

Basically the VAC organization of Officers, etc. is a bit looser on the regional level...if a region wants to host a rally, they do with the involvement of the Regional Representative. From there, it just kinda gathers steam and "happens".

There was a "new" WBCCI Unit that was established a couple of years ago with the main focus being vintage, the Washington DC Unit.

Shari

[Midamrail]

Just from attending the last two RM VAC rallies, Ben and I feel like we've gotten to know much of the Denver Unit WBCCI, and we absolutely adore those we've met (including Shari and Rob!). The unit has a strong vintage component, and the activities seem to be suited for everyone - younger, older, working, retired, families, singles, couples, older trailers, and newer units.

A strong and diverse unit such as the Denver, D.C., and South Carolina units probably doesn't need a sub-unit or committee organized for and by vintage owners and younger, working owners. It might be a boon, though, for the units with declining membership, a low retention rate for new members, and a discernible population of non-member A/S owners in the area.

[47WeeWind]

To expand a bit on what Shari describes above for our Denver CO Unit Rallies, at some Unit rallies like the annual Spring Maintenance Rally we park all the vintage trailers together in one area to facilitate repairs and comparisons between our trailer's various systems and appliances. Having them close together for periodic maintenance is a benefit and makes it like a mini vintage rally within a Unit rally. At other Unit rallies that are more social we intermix vintage with newer trailers to promote friendship among all Unit members. It's no big deal as we're talking about only 20 or so trailers, but alternative parking schemes encourage slightly different social patterns appropriate to different purposes. At Yuma, CO. we will park all vintage trailers together in a wagon wheel apart from newer trailers. This will be our living history display of how Wally and his adventurous Caravanners did it in the old days.

Molly and others might simulate Vintage "sub-units" by piggy-backing vintage get-togethers on existing Unit events, incorporating flexible day-by-day pricing for working families and guests, and parking vintage trailers together at first. This would create mini Vintage Rallies within Unit activities consistent with present WBCCI policies and practices. Make some of these Unit events "Buddy Rallies" and invite owners of those vintage trailers seen throughout your local area. This is what we've done in Denver and it has worked out very well for everyone, both old and new Denver Unit members.

This is one example of how VACers can begin to shape a local Unit to meet their needs. VACers don't have to reinvent the wheel, just steer it a bit more in our direction. This can be done successfully in local WBCCI Units throughout the country. Some Units will resist more and therefore take more time and effort than others. But once Unit leadership and members see our infectious Airstream enthusiasm, they understand the benefits of having us around and begin asking how they can make Unit events more to our liking. Two years ago after all us VACers without working heaters froze our Wallies off at the April Maintenance Rally, our Unit leadership, in a gesture of mercy, moved that event to May, when night time temperatures were less likely to drop below freezing.

As Smillie and other WBCCI cheerleaders have been preaching to the willing and unconvinced alike, all you need is a core group of determined VACers to ignite the process and create their own version of fun inside local WBCCI Units. We can't expect all local Unit leaders to magically divine what we need or want from the Club. Help them; show them the way. Tell them of your wants and needs, then contribute some elbow grease to help make it happen.

Self-absorbed & self-centered people who demand market-fashioned Airstream experience packages need not apply; they disappointment will be exceeded only by their loud whining at having to actively contribute instead of passively consume. For others who script their life instead of serially purchasing prepackaged experiences, here is the magic two-step program for success: get involved and make it happen. Life is what you create while others buy tickets.