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Old 03-19-2006, 04:25 PM   #43
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Hi,

It's all a matter of public record so don't worry about that. I got this directly from the Mother Ship (WBCCI Headquarters).

These are the links and please share privately or publicly what you prepare to keep your members updated we all just want the membership to make and informed decsion. let me know if you have any trouble getting the info many of our sister Units have it on their websites too.

Robin

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http://homepage.fcgnetworks.net/rgesch/lic2.jpg
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Old 03-19-2006, 04:56 PM   #44
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hi name droppers and watchers and belly floppers.....

deciding if the dues are hi/low/just right is a challenge....

? how many use the airstream parks.......? and the discounted camping.....

? how many use the caravans.......? and the (we do it for ya) trip planning......

? how many use the rallies......for all the fellowship, reunion, field trips and so on.....

and surprise.....some folks actually LIKE the legislative process, holding office and so on....some folks really dig this stuff.....

recall the current wb club is serving the needs and traditions of long term members, some newer gung ho members and others working there way up the rank....doing their time......it is hard for them to serve the needs of the new, or those thinking of joining, or those that want something different...

the club does what it knows......


it would seem so much easier to start a new club.......for those that cannot justify the wb, or get what they need from the wb....

who wants to start? i will send dues for the first convention planning meet....

the issue of free memberships isn't as simple or twisted as gt65 suggests...is anything?

someones gotta cover costs for the " new member stuff" and handle their needs at the home office (newbies can be high maintence...till they quit) badges, booklets, mailing lists, postage, a pound of bylaws....and so on.

the most recent program...of dealers paying for the first year......still happens......
with the dealers that are willing to pay and submit the paperwork......

so should the club do anything for the dealers that actually PAY the club dues for the first year?

several have noted that any sort of 'comp' the first year was influential....

lots of the former members who only did the comp year......are quiet here....

anyone sincere about learning how the club works, where the money goes, what the membership derives in value, what the relationship is to a/s the company......is gonna have to join, put in the time....over time....and get up to speed.....that will not happen on this forum.....

a few bits here, a few near facts here, a little 'truthiness'....isn't gonna do it....for understanding, supporting or changing the wbcci.....

so one must decide it is important enough, or not, and move on......few besides retirees have the time to do this....

folks like jack who are full time jobin' and juggle wb duties....are rare to find and keep.....they are the precious prodigy in any local group....

i think the posting of name issues......on the wbcci site is going really well.

and hope that most reading here can filter out the few that post the most.......
non sense....
seems they don't have as much fun on the wb forums......hum......

it's been great to see/read the recent posts from folks like robin and others expressing on this name ....regardless of position on the issue....

that those who seldom post have been doing so.....
is a credit to them....
how about if the rest of us get out of the way......so there views arent' buried.....

i am just gonna read for a while......on this topic....

robin.....you are doing a great job......keep at it......

cheers
2air
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Old 03-19-2006, 04:59 PM   #45
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We don't need a new club, we have one. We're here. Dues are optional.
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Old 03-19-2006, 05:03 PM   #46
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We don't need a new club, we have one. We're here. Dues are optional.
i agree completely stef.......and look how different this community is from traditional clubs......
and look at how the needs are met......

long live the forums!
2air'
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Old 03-19-2006, 05:52 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by wheel interested
May I ask what really has turned you from a member to a fence sitter, and please don't say it's this rhetoric.
It's the rhetoric!!! A while back folks were wishing for change in the club and I made some suggestions on how to effect change and several folks all but accused me of subterfuge in trying to cause change behind their backs. It was then that I knew that a lot of this is just posturing!!

The very people who criticize the club are the ones who attack any suggestions of change. Ask your self why!!
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Old 03-19-2006, 06:00 PM   #48
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You don't need to collect dues to have a club. Not one person has joined for their badges and Blue Beret. You can download for free presentations (well like your 2 part 1990's special 2air) that surpass any past printing of the Blue Beret. We can download receipts and name tags, up to date information. Each of us has their own insurance. What do we need to pay for when the work is done by volunteers and each is responsible for their own expenses? The club would function without the great expense. It would be better to donate the dues and tell people our names, Course that may take more explaining than some want to do.
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Old 03-19-2006, 06:02 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooperhawk
It's the rhetoric!!! A while back folks were wishing for change in the club and I made some suggestions on how to effect change and several folks all but accused me of subterfuge in trying to cause change behind their backs. It was then that I knew that a lot of this is just posturing!!

The very people who criticize the club are the ones who attack any suggestions of change. Ask your self why!!
Oh gee I am bad at that. Tell me why?
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Old 03-19-2006, 07:12 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooperhawk
It's the rhetoric!!! A while back folks were wishing for change in the club and I made some suggestions on how to effect change and several folks all but accused me of subterfuge in trying to cause change behind their backs. It was then that I knew that a lot of this is just posturing!!
Jim,
You have a couple of times mentioned that you dislike the rhetoric on this topic and WBCCI topics in general. I went back and looked at your previous posts on WBCCI related subjects and the responses they received and found nothing directed at you personally. And I only found one single post that seemed to take difference with what you posted, and again I did not read it at being directed at you so much as at the WBCCI in general. I'm sorry if you see it differently.

And I must say that none of what I read was "posturing" (if I understand what posutring is) - even that one post that was a little on the strong side, I think, was written because of passion for WBCCI, what is was, what it is, and what it could be in the future. Many of the people post here because it is a place to freely exchange ideas. And yeah, we're not going to agree with all of everyone else's ideas. But in any case, hopefully when these ideas are fully developed they will cause people to get further involved in the club and initiate the changes they seek.

The name change may only be the first call to action. It certainly seems to be bringing people together to discuss WBCCI more than any other topic since I have been on these forums. I think that is a good thing.
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Old 03-19-2006, 08:00 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by 47WeeWind
Ask and you shall receive! Well, partially at least. I just posted on the WBCCI web site discussion board my 10 reasons to vote against the Name Change Proposal. Look here:

http://www.wbcci.org/Forum/viewmessa...row=11&erow=20

It's under Other, WBCCI or AOAI, on page 2. Those interested can peek; those who aren't can ignore. I hope my post on the WBCCI web site generates some discussion and dialogue over there. If you see benefits in the proposed Licensing Agreement, please bring them to my attention. Thanks,
Wow Fred - I just read your "10 Reasons" over on the WBCCI Forum. Very compelling! With this understanding I cannot see how the IBT could have approved the Committee's recommended name - AOAI oh no!.

I too am held hostage by the karma bug - I gotta spread more around before I can give you karma for this post.
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Old 03-19-2006, 08:31 PM   #52
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Fred,

I gave ya karma for that...
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Old 03-19-2006, 08:47 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Overlander
Jim,
You have a couple of times mentioned that you dislike the rhetoric on this topic and WBCCI topics in general. I went back and looked at your previous posts on WBCCI related subjects and the responses they received and found nothing directed at you personally. And I only found one single post that seemed to take difference with what you posted, and again I did not read it at being directed at you so much as at the WBCCI in general. I'm sorry if you see it differently.
I do see it differently and can see that you do as well. You have your agenda as noted by your avitar and that is just fine with me. I think there are a lot more important things to discuss and this is trivial. I personally don't think that as, has been suggested, the officers of the WBCCI are ignoring the members at all. I think they hear very well and and are trying to serve the club. You or I may not agree with what they do, but vilifying them here does no good at all. You should also realize that there are a lot more members, (than are being vocal here), that have opions and if they thought the officers were doing them wrong, they would speak up.

I personally don't give a rip what they name it. What's in a name?? I am discouraged that when change is probably needeed to save the club, that a vocal few can side track discussion so that more important items are forgotten. Your last posting, whether you will admit it or not, was intended to diminish what I had said. Okay. I really don't care except that if that is the way any change in the club is going to be addressed, then no change can be accomplished. At least the IBT (International Board of Terrorists) (not my label, look it up), is trying to do something. All you folks are doing are playing the (Dog in the Manger). Dog is in the hay manger barking to keep the horses and cows away. Dog can't eat the hay, but doesn't want the other animals to eat it either. Bark over your turf. Nobody cares.
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Old 03-19-2006, 08:49 PM   #54
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And now as Edward R. Murrow said, "good night, and good luck"!
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Old 03-19-2006, 09:43 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooperhawk
I do see it differently and can see that you do as well. You have your agenda as noted by your avitar and that is just fine with me. I think there are a lot more important things to discuss and this is trivial. I personally don't think that as, has been suggested, the officers of the WBCCI are ignoring the members at all. I think they hear very well and and are trying to serve the club. You or I may not agree with what they do, but vilifying them here does no good at all. You should also realize that there are a lot more members, (than are being vocal here), that have opions and if they thought the officers were doing them wrong, they would speak up.

I personally don't give a rip what they name it. What's in a name?? I am discouraged that when change is probably needeed to save the club, that a vocal few can side track discussion so that more important items are forgotten. Your last posting, whether you will admit it or not, was intended to diminish what I had said. Okay. I really don't care except that if that is the way any change in the club is going to be addressed, then no change can be accomplished. At least the IBT (International Board of Terrorists) (not my label, look it up), is trying to do something. All you folks are doing are playing the (Dog in the Manger). Dog is in the hay manger barking to keep the horses and cows away. Dog can't eat the hay, but doesn't want the other animals to eat it either. Bark over your turf. Nobody cares.
Jim,
My intent was in no way to diminish what you said, but to just put a different light on how you thought you had been treated here. I hoped to help you see that you hadn't been mistreated here. Sorry if you took offense at my attempt to clear that up. We all often read into things what we want to see in them. Sometimes an objective third party can clear things up. I know I've needed either that help, or just time itself to see things clearly on other issues in the past.

I do not see how you can think I personally have villified anything or anyone. I think my posts have been very positive and generally about ways to effect change within the WBCCI. Yes, I disagree with the name change that is currently endorsed by WBCCI leadership. But in no way does that mean I do not treat those leaders with respect. I cannot imagine the amount of time and effort they put into leading the club, but they can only lead effectively when they respond to the wishes of the general membership. In this case, I think the way the name change eveloved from the original question into the specific name has deviated from what was approved by the membership. I do not support that deviation.

I hope I am misreading your message, but it seems to try to diminish the opinions and efforts of anyone that thinks the name change issue is an important issue - and I am one of those people. I feel like I am being stereotyped. I think you are transfereing feelings you may have for the most vocal "anti-name change" folks to all of us that oppose the change (or at least to me personally). I am sorry you feel this way and I am sorry if my post in any way hurt you. That was not the intent.
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Old 03-20-2006, 12:50 AM   #56
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A Positive Step

You know - I went back and read the document posted at the top of this string that was sent from WBCCI to the Delegates giving some of the costs and some of the Pro's & Con's about the name change.

I see this disclosure as a very positive step for the club. It is a legitimate discussion of some of the very serious points to consider when deciding how to vote on this issue. The very fact that Club Leadership is trying to make sure everyone is aware of these points is a good sign. It renews my faith that the leaders of this club are trying to make a positive change with the name change. And it appears that they understand that not all of us may approve of this proposal. It almost appears like they may even be begining to realize that the proposal may just be too extreme for most of us.
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