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Old 03-19-2006, 10:04 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
Given the conversations of a national forum type rally, and the possibility of it happening, let alone the successful local forum type rally gatherings, it may make the whole WBCCI thing moot.
Oh really, how many forum rallies a year and how many WBCCI rallies a year? The nearest forum rally to me in the last two years is 300 miles, the nearest WBCCI rally 20 miles.

Bill
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Old 03-19-2006, 10:05 AM   #30
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Jim, If you don't think reading a letter released to the unit presidents directly from WBCCI headquarters is important enough to give it more thought and rhetoric, just how could that level of involvement help you make other changes in the club? Working together as one does not mean disavowing your co-members viewpoint on important vote issues. This is the way the club works, this is what we have learned, this is how we are starting. I must have missed the big push you are promoting on other more pertinent changes but this is the change at hand now. Not pertinent??. And why do you think the passionate people promoting a no vote for a name change would not continue to try to make other changes if it proves out that members can make a difference? Are you confusing synergy with conformity?
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Old 03-19-2006, 10:06 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooperhawk
I think this issue is not worth all the rhetoric that we have expended. We have bigger issues we need to solve.

1. How to enlarge the club.
2. Streamlining the Administration of the club.
3. How to change the club to more readily meet the needs and desires of younger members.

I could go on. I would rather see more discussions by these same very intelligent and articulate folks on other more pertinent subjects. I'll bet we could do a lot to keep the club vigorous and growing.
I do not disagree with you that there are bigger issues for WBCCI to address, but I do not agree that this issue is not worth the rhetotic it is receiving. The unfortunate thing is that WBCCI leadership has decided to address the name of the club rather that those bigger issues. Until this issue is resolved it will continue to get the bulk of the discussion. And quite frankly, the proposed name appears be actually be turning off many of those younger folks that it is purported to attract, so it may have opposite of the desired effect. I certainly expect a number of current members will quit the club if this name change passes. Unfortunate, but true.
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Old 03-19-2006, 10:26 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Overlander
And quite frankly, the proposed name appears be actually be turning off many of those younger folks that it is purported to attract, so it may have opposite of the desired effect. I certainly expect a number of current members will quit the club if this name change passes. Unfortunate, but true.
I believe that younger potential members are turned away by the rhetoric going on and some of the old rituals. Not by the name change issue. I also feel some members will quit the club whichever way the name goes. Don't you. Heck, I'm even thinking of quitting and I don't even give a rip what name is used. Personally, I wouldn't want to go to a rally and be exposed to some of the intense pro or con rhetoric. Who needs it.
Life is too short to get this upset about such and insignificant thing.

I hadn't posted on this subject for quite a while, and I expect to be savaged and will now let it go again. Just my two cents worth.
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Old 03-19-2006, 10:30 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Overlander
I do not disagree with you that there are bigger issues for WBCCI to address, but I do not agree that this issue is not worth the rhetotic it is receiving. The unfortunate thing is that WBCCI leadership has decided to address the name of the club rather that those bigger issues. Until this issue is resolved it will continue to get the bulk of the discussion.
I agree with 66Overlander. The discussion is focused on the name change because that is the issue at hand. No matter how the vote goes, the broader issues will not be dropped, especially by those who now see what might happen to the club if the members just sit idly by and let an out-of-touch leadershop body take the reins and run the club into the ground. The name issue is certainly an eye opener to the deeper problems, but I don't see how that makes it a non-issue.
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Old 03-19-2006, 10:48 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooperhawk
I believe that younger potential members are turned away by the rhetoric going on and some of the old rituals. Not by the name change issue. I also feel some members will quit the club whichever way the name goes. Don't you. Heck, I'm even thinking of quitting and I don't even give a rip what name is used. Personally, I wouldn't want to go to a rally and be exposed to some of the intense pro or con rhetoric. Who needs it.
Life is too short to get this upset about such and insignificant thing.

I hadn't posted on this subject for quite a while, and I expect to be savaged and will now let it go again. Just my two cents worth.
I don't understand. You don't care about the name change you don't want to go to a rally and you are considering quitting but you do feel strongly enough to come out against those who care and are in the club. What is your motivation? May I ask what really has turned you from a member to a fence sitter, and please don't say it's this rhetoric.

In the rallies I have attended there has been zero rhetoric for the main populous, it's all about meeting with others, getting in line for ice cream and unusual entertainment. Ah but here's where the club could use your suggestions for change.
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Old 03-19-2006, 10:54 AM   #35
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Over There, over there...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
I read that agreement differently than most. It appears that additional licensing agreements are required to produce merchandise. We should really get a look at a few of these other agreements. That would be worthwhile for everyone to see. .... It would be nice for someone to come forward and detail those agreements and experiences. __
Ask and you shall receive! Well, partially at least. I just posted on the WBCCI web site discussion board my 10 reasons to vote against the Name Change Proposal. Look here:

http://www.wbcci.org/Forum/viewmessa...row=11&erow=20

It's under Other, WBCCI or AOAI, on page 2. Those interested can peek; those who aren't can ignore. I hope my post on the WBCCI web site generates some discussion and dialogue over there. If you see benefits in the proposed Licensing Agreement, please bring them to my attention. Thanks,
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Old 03-19-2006, 11:27 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT

Free memberships don't work. AS just proved that over the last few years. You've got fence sitters here that claim they've been fence sitters for years. They're not going to become members. People that join often join because they think they should join. If they have to debate it for YEARS then they're better off not joining. You'd hate to have to top off years of internal debate with disappointment.

I dont think that is the case at all. I know in our case a free membership would make all the difference. Even if it is only a one or two year waiver of the dues. There are reasons to join and reasons not to join but imo the name of the club isnt one of them. Frankly i dont care what the name is. If i bought a new trailer or used trailer and approached the club and they offered me a free membership i would take it. The name is irrelevant.

At that point since it isnt costing me anything i could work to change the club to appeal to a younger crowd. Not that $70-$100 is a lot but it is enough to keep me from joining when the demographics of the club and its general direction isnt something i am interested in or have anything in common with.
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Old 03-19-2006, 11:30 AM   #37
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Karma Block!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
You do surprise! Karma coming your way!! Rats -- I've been blocked from giving you Karma! I've got some work to do... __
Hummmnnn, looks like you might have to establish an undeground Karma railroad to sneak those K points past the K-blockade. Anyway, when you get it figured out, or time solves the Karmalemma, that would be Karmariffic!

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Old 03-19-2006, 11:41 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wkerfoot
Oh really, how many forum rallies a year and how many WBCCI rallies a year? The nearest forum rally to me in the last two years is 300 miles, the nearest WBCCI rally 20 miles.

Bill
Bill, my comments were in terms where the .org is heading.

At the rate WBCCI is going, there might not be a club left in 5-10 years--- and a name change isn't going to attract the number of younger Streams in my age group to fill the losses. You'll most likely have local splinters that remain, but the .org as we know it today, if change is not embraced from within first from the top down, my point is that the forum rallys might soon outnumber International type events. All future tense, not present or what the local folks do, now or in the future.

Keep in mind I could be wrong. However, when former officers from local groups are talking about the problems, and how they ran into nothing but resistance to change and a number of moderate WBCCI supporter are talking of departing, and the deperate move of a total name change and the hint that Thor may have a bigger influence on the club, the math as the robot said "does not compute".

It'd be cool if the need to be a WBCCI member to be a member of VAC would disappear. VAC for the most part has their act together. I'd bet VAC's numbers would skyrocket if you didn't have to be a WBCCI member.
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Old 03-19-2006, 11:44 AM   #39
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Demographics be damned ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
... I know in our case a free membership would make all the difference ... since it isnt costing me anything i could work to change the club to appeal to a younger crowd. Not that $70-$100 is a lot but it is enough to keep me from joining when the demographics of the club and its general direction isnt something i am interested in or have anything in common with.
Van:

Your statement tells me you haven't yet been to a Vintage Airstream Club Rally, the crazy uncle intraclub of the WBCCI. Age, properly viewed, is a mental state, not a chronological imperative (or impairative for some). We're some of the most mental people you'll ever meet, so hitch up that Argosy and visit a VAC Rally some time for mostly unstructured fun without oatmeal.
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Old 03-19-2006, 12:52 PM   #40
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Gosh, $80 is a lot to me, and if they raised it to $100 I don't think I would pay it. I like the club, but really, it's a $25 club to me, just like my mustang club or miata club. After all, you pay rally fees for activities, you buy your own lunch at luncheons, what do I get back for that $80 but the opportunity to participate?

That's my point. If it's already necessary for the national club to charge so much for dues, what is that money used for, and is a name change the best use of MY money? No!

Free memberships DO work, I got in on the last year of free memberships for new owners. They almost lost me that first year because I joined in April and in two months they started hitting me up for next year's dues. I refused to pay and held out until November, the last possible time I could pay and still get in the book. Every year I still pay in October.

I know of another ASer who got the exact same treatment, got in an email war with someone in the club about it and left and never came back. And he's a good guy, just thinks the club should treat new members better than that.

$80 IS a LOT of money - that's four nights at a state park. Thats a couple nice dinners out. I have to think long and hard before I plunk down $80. I would hope the leaders of the club would do the same before they plunk down thousands on as questionable a venture as this name change.
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Old 03-19-2006, 02:34 PM   #41
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If you read the second sentence on the Denver site page 6A para 4 you get to what I think is the heart of the matter for Thor. WBCCI will not challenge Thor on the rights to the mark and style. I think there is a real claim to be made by WBCCI for use of the name Airstream. I'm no lawyer but I think this sentence is what Thor is after, for WBCCI to give up any claim to the name. And WBCCI is getting nothing it doesn't already have except corporate oversight.

Join WACCI and be happy.
I'm working on the logo, how about one of those pink birds.
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Old 03-19-2006, 02:57 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefrobrts
Gosh, $80 is a lot to me, and if they raised it to $100 I don't think I would pay it. I like the club, but really, it's a $25 club to me, just like my mustang club or miata club. After all, you pay rally fees for activities, you buy your own lunch at luncheons, what do I get back for that $80 but the opportunity to participate?

That's my point. If it's already necessary for the national club to charge so much for dues, what is that money used for, and is a name change the best use of MY money? No!

Free memberships DO work, I got in on the last year of free memberships for new owners. They almost lost me that first year because I joined in April and in two months they started hitting me up for next year's dues. I refused to pay and held out until November, the last possible time I could pay and still get in the book. Every year I still pay in October.

I know of another ASer who got the exact same treatment, got in an email war with someone in the club about it and left and never came back. And he's a good guy, just thinks the club should treat new members better than that.

$80 IS a LOT of money - that's four nights at a state park. Thats a couple nice dinners out. I have to think long and hard before I plunk down $80. I would hope the leaders of the club would do the same before they plunk down thousands on as questionable a venture as this name change.
Are you telling me that membership fees are over the amount I already balked at after my free membership then my second and third year's? and then yet another raise beyond? That is just plain WRONG! Play all the soft soap sentiment you want about just camping and people and relationships being worth every penny and more. Poppy cock excuse my French! We get a book we don't want and a magazine that is all ads and coupons, c'mon --get REAL! Pay even more. You can join a buddy rally without membership fee and pay as you go now. Is anyone figuring this out? Daahh!!!
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