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Old 04-07-2006, 09:25 PM   #15
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To answer the original question "What if we said No." There is no "No" vote when it comes to the slate of officers. If there is only one candidate for the office and it were possible to vote "No" then there is the possibility that the organization would be left without officers. So, according to Parliamentary Procedure you can only vote "Yes." If there is more than one candidate then you vote "Yes" for one or the other, but there is no "No" vote. In fact, in instances where a candidate runs without opposition, and even where there is an entire slate of officers running without opposition no vote by the Delegates is required. By running unopposed they can actually be elected unamiously without a vote being cast. That is the situation we have in the WBCCI, except for when someone is nominated from the floor of the Delegates Meeting.
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Old 04-07-2006, 10:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest
To answer the original question "What if we said No." There is no "No" vote when it comes to the slate of officers. If there is only one candidate for the office and it were possible to vote "No" then there is the possibility that the organization would be left without officers. So, according to Parliamentary Procedure you can only vote "Yes." If there is more than one candidate then you vote "Yes" for one or the other, but there is no "No" vote. In fact, in instances where a candidate runs without opposition, and even where there is an entire slate of officers running without opposition no vote by the Delegates is required. By running unopposed they can actually be elected unamiously without a vote being cast. That is the situation we have in the WBCCI, except for when someone is nominated from the floor of the Delegates Meeting.
That reminds me of a Beatles song. Inside the USSR....
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Old 04-08-2006, 06:18 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest
To answer the original question "What if we said No." There is no "No" vote when it comes to the slate of officers. If there is only one candidate for the office and it were possible to vote "No" then there is the possibility that the organization would be left without officers. So, according to Parliamentary Procedure you can only vote "Yes." If there is more than one candidate then you vote "Yes" for one or the other, but there is no "No" vote. In fact, in instances where a candidate runs without opposition, and even where there is an entire slate of officers running without opposition no vote by the Delegates is required. By running unopposed they can actually be elected unamiously without a vote being cast. That is the situation we have in the WBCCI, except for when someone is nominated from the floor of the Delegates Meeting.
Thanks, this is very clear. Not a happy thought, but clear. So my guess is that the Nominating committe at the IBT level is experiencing the same difficulties the small Units are. People are not willing to take office.

I can understand how difficult this is. My Unit is dwindling as far as active members to do the work of the Unit (my comment to L's remark that I was carping and not stepping up to the plate irked me a bit). It is sad to think that if that is the case we could have people stepping up without the driving committment in their heart to make any changes.

Perhaps we should be exploring the responsibilities we are asking these people to perform and make it easier to be an officer?
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Old 04-08-2006, 07:19 AM   #18
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Running from the floor

Last year we did not have a candidate that was approved for the by the nominating committee for third International president. Jerry Larson ran from the floor against the person who had submitted his name to the committee but was not endorsed. Jerry won the election. Any office is contestable from the floor but it is a rare occurrance that this has happen and the person wins. In volenteer organization like ours this is pretty common. Many non-profit organizations have an paid executive director which sees to the day to day running of the business. Many of these paid executives are professionals with real ability to carry the hard part of setting day to day priorities and implementing them. We had a paid person for many years but the club never made progress in accomplishing new programs or new ideas. A number of years ago the board decided to do away with the position and save the money because they felt they could run the organization without him. The volenteer board of directors usually sets the long term goals for the organization. By comparison to Good Sam (which is a commercial venture with monitary goals) WBCCI's board of directors have not been able to implement very many programs to broaden the club's appeal to the new generation of campers which are entering the market. Good Sam has continued to grow and has put together a more appealing magezine and alliances with other companies to offer more benifits to its members. Since decisions are made at the top there is no need for multilevel volenteer management and long years of dedication to get into a decision maker position within the organization. Spending the money for an professional inovative thinker, with a history of being able to move non-profit organizations forward, might be money well spent for this organization at this time. He or she must be given real authority to make positive changes in the way we do business and be capable of bringing professional publishing skills in to make the magezine and the programs more appealing to the younger camper families.
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Old 04-08-2006, 08:11 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by dwightdi
Last year we did not have a candidate that was approved for the by the nominating committee for third International president. Jerry Larson ran from the floor against the person who had submitted his name to the committee but was not endorsed. Jerry won the election. Any office is contestable from the floor but it is a rare occurrance that this has happen and the person wins. In volenteer organization like ours this is pretty common. Many non-profit organizations have an paid executive director which sees to the day to day running of the business. Many of these paid executives are professionals with real ability to carry the hard part of setting day to day priorities and implementing them. We had a paid person for many years but the club never made progress in accomplishing new programs or new ideas. A number of years ago the board decided to do away with the position and save the money because they felt they could run the organization without him. The volenteer board of directors usually sets the long term goals for the organization. By comparison to Good Sam (which is a commercial venture with monitary goals) WBCCI's board of directors have not been able to implement very many programs to broaden the club's appeal to the new generation of campers which are entering the market. Good Sam has continued to grow and has put together a more appealing magezine and alliances with other companies to offer more benifits to its members. Since decisions are made at the top there is no need for multilevel volenteer management and long years of dedication to get into a decision maker position within the organization. Spending the money for an professional inovative thinker, with a history of being able to move non-profit organizations forward, might be money well spent for this organization at this time. He or she must be given real authority to make positive changes in the way we do business and be capable of bringing professional publishing skills in to make the magezine and the programs more appealing to the younger camper families.
You bring up some interesting points. This monitary connection that clearly benefits the club in producing a better magazine, a finacial/marketing relationship is something I can see value in. I think this is why I am so opposed to the proposed agreement between Thor and WBCCI there no discussion about what THOR would do for us. If we were to enter into an agreement with them I would like it to be more specific as to the future of the relationship outlining where were could be of service to each other. The agreement I reviewed does not specifie the benefits provided to the club such as marketing, advertising, etc. It is too simple and really gives away more than gains.

I would be very interested to see the organizational structure of Good Sam.
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Old 04-08-2006, 09:59 AM   #20
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Internet Town Meeting for Candidates

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested
The WBCCI forum is live and in place. Seems it could be posted this evening. New general thread then e-mail candidates and ask them to post a thread under their name starting a parallel thread linking to the main introduction thread. Let them introduce themselves and then let the discussion begin, unit by unit, delegate by delegate.
Carol:

Excellent suggestion!! The WBCCI web site and the Forums on it are presently underutilized, so let's use them as a new 21st century medium of information exchange. Start a new thread for each national officer position. Post questions there and email the WBCCI National Officer candidates, advising them of the questions posted on the WBCCI Forum and requesting them to post answers there and continue an ongoing dialogue with members. Those who do not respond reveal, in my mind, a lack of modern and current credentials for the position, notwithstanding their earlier lifetime accomplishments as listed in their static resumes.
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Old 04-08-2006, 10:00 AM   #21
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Spending the money for an professional inovative thinker, with a history of being able to move non-profit organizations forward, might be money well spent for this organization at this time. He or she must be given real authority to make positive changes in the way we do business and be capable of bringing professional publishing skills in to make the magezine and the programs more appealing to the younger camper families.
This is not so easy as it sounds. It is just a different flavor on what they tried last time and decided wasn't worth the cost.

A group like WBCCI doesn't have to spend money for a professional inovative thinker, it has to tap the enormous innovation and creativity it already has - in its membership.

The 'authority to make changes' is another issue closely related to what I think motivated this thread. WBCCI does not need a dictator who can force changes as a given authority - it needs leaders who have vision and can lead change. This leadership responsibility cannot be delegated.

Looking outside (e.g. superman or Thor as cited above) for some magic cure to the ills perceived is not, and has never been, a very satisfactory avenue towards progress.

Good Sam could make a good foil but it is not a mission driven organization such as the WBCCI. Any comparisons would have to be very carefully qualified in this regard. There is already evidence that such qualifications are being overlooked in the comments about changing WBCCI in its branding or in its appeal to certain population segments or such things. These veer away from what sets WBCCI apart and makes it unique. It veers away from the kind of thing the prompts people like Tim to set up SaveWally.

I do think an organization like WBCCI needs professional association management. This gets touchy because WBCCI already has a headquarters staff and has dismissed the standard model. Other models of professional association management and the proper role of such management are not always easy to fully understand, either.

As noted in this thread, there is tremendous dissonance in the area of communications. On the one hand members miss information that is presented to them via usual and customary channels. This is frustrating for the management and leadership as well as the membership. On the other hand, there are members who distrust the processes and procedures of the association and feel left out or an insignificant voice in the organization.

It also appears that change is happening in how the association grooms and trains its leadership. This change is 'just happening' and not being tended and nurtured and that means perhaps more growing pains that would otherwise be suffered. The old model of working up through the ranks is coming into question from several fronts. Other methods of training, encouraging, and developing the leaders needed for continuity are being implemented out of necessity rather than planning or careful consideration.

One step in the right direction is the set of seminars prepared by some folks in R2 for the I'Rally to improve local governance. Another is, I think, threads like this. The question for WBCCI is whether or not these ideas can be turned into active innovative and creative leadership for actual change.
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Old 04-11-2006, 08:34 AM   #22
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One step in the right direction is the set of seminars prepared by some folks in R2 for the I'Rally to improve local governance. Another is, I think, threads like this. The question for WBCCI is whether or not these ideas can be turned into active innovative and creative leadership for actual change.
Thanks for the plug for the Leadership Workshops that will be offered at the International Rally. There are four workshops. The organizers of these workshops are the 2nd VP of Region 3 and the WBCCI Membership Chair and they each will be conducting sessions. One workshop leader is the 2nd VP from Region 2. Ideas originated as a grassroots endeavor. More grassroots endeavors will help improve the organization.

Its our club.
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Old 04-11-2006, 10:55 AM   #23
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Dear Bryan,

I know you have been with the organization a long time and you think we have alot of talent here. If you review the pass 20 years of the club's innovations, we have not been very good in keeping up with the times or retaining membership. Mr. Reed was with us for quite a few years as a professional manager but he did not have the spark or talent that was necessary to move the club forward. Just because he failed does not mean we can not find an approriate person to do the 100% of his time to implement the goals of the club as set forth by an enlightened board of directors. The normal and customary method of succession into the IBT takes about 10 years of club membership. Therefore, the board typically is used to things as they are not looking to make improvements. They also are not typically from a marketing background and therefore lack insight into what would be good to be able to draw new members into the club. The question is of course "What is a successful club?" Is it just meeting the current members needs? Is it just meeting the current officers and leaders needs? Is it just increasing the total membership of the club? Are we truely competitive with the likes of Good Sam or are we competing with other types of camping or other recreational activities the members may chose to spend their time and money on?

Our free leaders are worth what we pay for them. You can not expect full 110% dedication of an individual's time to build up and operate the club. Just preparing the mag creatively would be a full time job as well as selling ads and finding first class freelance writers to develop great articles.
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Old 04-11-2006, 11:53 AM   #24
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Our free leaders are worth what we pay for them.
I will respectfully and humbly disagree and submit that we just look at ourselves as a start towards a more optimistic view.

One of the peculiarities about the United States is its volunteer led nonprofit associations. The country's founders were volunteers. It is the volunteers in our associations who lead and the effort and creativity they provide cannot and should not be underestimated or minimized.

It is often the impassioned volunteers who make things go and grow and blossom. We cannot delegate disappointing results to some scapegoat or other excuse. We have to chip in, step up, and and participate ourselves and do what we can do to make things better step by small step.

It is the money and barter mentality that I think plagues WBCCI (and many other associations facing similar challenges and problems) perhaps too much. This leads to trying to use weak motivators to solve problems rather than trying to leverage the strong ones that provide the foundation of the organization.

The Boise I'Rally was a disappointment in that it was the only time I have run across check ins to a ham radio traffic net shunned or had volunteers rebuffed due to petty leadership squabbles. These things happen and learning can occur.

But then I look at the time and effort committment and contributions of regional officers and I cannot be but impressed by what they invest in the club.

It is the volunteers who lead and it is the volunteers who are giving - and receiving - to the association something money can't touch. Our association is made poor when its members do not realize just how important and how valuable this something really is.
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Old 04-11-2006, 12:17 PM   #25
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I was under the impression that you vote for all the candidates as a package not as individuals. Is this true? Or is this just the way it was presented to me....a vote to approve a list of new officers.
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Old 04-11-2006, 01:55 PM   #26
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If there are more than one candidate for an office, then the deligates are instructed by their unit member who to vote their "unit votes" for. If there are no floor nominations and only one candidate on the ballot the deligates simply confirm the election. If no offices are contested, the procedure simple confirms the election by voice vote. Robert's Rules of Order always apply. It is pretty simple and generally how it goes with many social type clubs with the usual stepping up thru the chairs of office. Any procedure that the leaders are simply selected on who has served the longest is not destined to great change and success. Longevity does not equal creativity.
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Old 04-11-2006, 04:13 PM   #27
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You know I was gonna stay out of this thread until I read the participation issue come up again. I've heard countless people beat the participate positively drum time and time again. "Change from within" they say. I don't think it happens all over the country, but for the most part, there is a staunch resistance to change by MANY of the regions. I've read one or two on this forum alone say that the more they tried, the less it was well received. I know one person in particular whom I consider very level headed, and a pillar and well respected member on this forum as well as WBCCI who has nearly had it (which actually shocked the heck out me)...and volunteers his time for extra stuff within their unit. If the folks that have been in it for years like this person and leave, what does that say about the future? Young(er) folks like me aren't joining, Airstream is selling more than they can produce, yet where do all these new Airstream owners go? Clearly, not WBCCI.

In the end membership retention and overall membership speak louder than anything that's been posted here or anyplace else on the subject.

My prediction is that WBCCI will either continue to dwindle out of existence from natural causes due to the resistance to change bit, or it will become a splintered group of "local" clubs independent of a national movement, until such time the deep rooted folks move on to greener campgrounds.

In closing, my opinion is that there are far more important things to worry about than what has been toiled over around here about WBCCI... but hey, that's just my opinion and it's free, take it or leave it FWIW.
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