I felt that skyvalley meant that if MALs had the right to vote then WBCCI would have more members, as the absence of that right stopped them from becoming WBCCI members. I, in no way, feel that MALs should not have the right to vote. It is unfortunate that there are so many members who do not have the right to vote.
Bill
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Bill, you are correct. But let me explain further, not being able to vote discouraged MALs from rejoining.
Being a step child is not fun, when we joined the WBCCI as MAL we paid full price and thought we were full fledged members, then later we found out we could not even vote on WBCCI issues because we didn't belong to some other club!
Had it not been for the great 4CU which we were able to join, we would be gone!!! We now drive over a thousand miles to 4CU rallies. Can everyone afford that, time or money wise?
The right to vote could also turn around a number of AS owner non members to MAL, that I have talked to.
Let us change before we vaporize.
Thanks for listening,
John
__________________
To paraphrase Socrates, I know one thing,
and that is that I know nothing. Even with in my so-called area of
expertise.
As I see it the possible candidates for '08 need to get their resumes out with a well written mission statement to all units by Feb 1 08. These candidates will be running as candidates from the floor, without the support of the INC (Nominating committee) This gets all the information out to the units so they can decide BEFORE Bozeman what candidate to vote for.
Then Motions to run said candidates can be made and units can vote. Every unit corresponding secretary is listed in the blue book, and you may even be able to get a list electronically from Jackson Center that can be printed on labels.
The feedback I heard was that if units had had this information in time the floor nominations would have had a chance of passing. As it was the delegates were locked into doing what the units told them to do.
__________________
Brett G
WBCCI #5501 AIR # 49
"Stop worrying about the potholes in the road and celebrate the journey." -- Fitzhugh Mullan
Wise men talk because they have someting to say; fools, because they have to say something. -- Plato
In politics, absurdity is not a handicap— Napoleon
As I see it the possible candidates for '08 need to get their resumes out with a well written mission statement to all units by Feb 1 08. These candidates will be running as candidates from the floor, without the support of the INC (Nominating committee) This gets all the information out to the units so they can decide BEFORE Bozeman what candidate to vote for.
Then Motions to run said candidates can be made and units can vote. Every unit corresponding secretary is listed in the blue book, and you may even be able to get a list electronically from Jackson Center that can be printed on labels.
The feedback I heard was that if units had had this information in time the floor nominations would have had a chance of passing. As it was the delegates were locked into doing what the units told them to do.
How do the units get the information if its not posted in the BB or the regional leadership decide not to promote someone outside the normal "party" lines?
Sorry I guess I just don't understand. Reading the club bylaws it would appear that the only way to "really" be considered and "publicly" advertised as a candidate you would have to go before the nominating committee. I don't see anything in place to "get the word" out to us minions that are in the trenches if we were to belong to a unit that "does not care" for change.
Tell me if I'm wrong, but a perfect example is on the MOHO vote where if I as a member of the club did not have a unit rep at the meeting, my vote didn't even get counted. And I wouldn't be surprised if some of those units didn't even take a vote.
As I peer through tangled brush that includes briars and poison ivy, I don't see how the club as a whole can improve until the majority of the club units are as proactive as the WDCU, NEU, NYMETRO and 4CU.
We already have three candidates that will run from the floor in Bozeman '08. We're looking for two more. We will notify the current nominating committee of our intent to run from the floor -- to give all members a choice of candidates for '08.
We're giving advance notice so that the INC can decide if they want to provide some way of putting us in the Blue Beret well in advance. We don't believe they will have any interest in that -- the INC typically selects the officers for the coming year and the membership does the unanimous lemming head nod and that slate gets elected.
We believe that if the membership has any choice at all -- almost regardless of who the candidates are -- they will vote for change. I think that's a sign of how desperate members are to see this club advance, to change it's look and feel, and to put member satisfaction and value at the top of the list. We're losing a thousand members plus a year. New members are not so much of an issue. We gain a thousand new members every year. It's keeping them in the club that's at issue.
We need to get travel trailer members back in charge -- that explains AOAI and Four Winds motions to a tee -- leaders that are out of touch with OUR club. Their club -- and their group of friends don't see the club the way the Silent Majority does. We get it -- they get something entirely different.
How does the information get out to units should the INC decide not to allow alternate candidates entry into the CLUB'S Blue Beret? A direct mailing to all Unit leaders that state exactly that plus the resumes of candidates that are running for office.
We will go forward but we hope that the INC finds a way to offer multiple candidates AND includes a paper ballot for members. If they don't we're looking at FIVE hours of roll calls just to get through elections.
Unlike this year, names will not be withdrawn once roll calls start. Different resumes and different candidates for the varying positions could draw far different results. We hope the INC will figure all of this out, but...
As the 'ol geezer (newkid64) predicted -- we intend to have our mailings out mid-January the latest.
How do the units get the information if its not posted in the BB or the regional leadership decide not to promote someone outside the normal "party" lines?
It is going to require campaining. Each unit would need to be sent the resume directly, outside of the nominating committee process. If possible some units may have someone that is willing to present the "un-anointed" candidates to their units, Volunteers?
The BB will never support this as it is a club organ, and this is outside the norn. The energy used figting that would be better spent doing things outside the system.
I would be happy to present these members to my unit, if they will get me their information.
One of the things that comes up here over and over again is lack of information. Many units do not have the skills to fully utilize the Internet, so for these first few rounds of changes the best way is snail mail.
In the future the www may be the way it works, but for now it is going to take some good old campaining by the members to make the units aware of the un-anointed candidates.
__________________
Brett G
WBCCI #5501 AIR # 49
"Stop worrying about the potholes in the road and celebrate the journey." -- Fitzhugh Mullan
Wise men talk because they have someting to say; fools, because they have to say something. -- Plato
In politics, absurdity is not a handicap— Napoleon
We already have three candidates that will run from the floor in Bozeman '08. We're looking for two more. We will notify the current nominating committee of our intent to run from the floor -- to give all members a choice of candidates for '08.
But why run from the floor? Why not go through the nominating committee? Seems to me you would have to be heard if you went through the IBT's channels....right? Have a Unit/Region Prez nominate the candidates...if they are brought forth through "the process" then they will be presented to all...seems like a lot less work to me. Not saying you still wouldn't do your own campaigning simultaneously to get the members asking "what about the other guy?"
I am certain the alternate candidates would get more votes than were obtained at Perry if they names & positions were out there beforehand rather than coming from the floor after many delegates were already locked into their votes by their members. As you know, our DenCO Unit delegate was allowed to "vote his concious" and did...he voted 100% for the alternate candidate from the floor, but others could not change their votes. Now of course, depending on the individual delegate, this could have backfired...but I am proud to say, it didn't.
Shari
__________________
Vintage Airstream Club - Past President 2007/2008
WBCCI #1824 - DenCO Unit Past President (2005)
AIR #30 - Join Date: 2-25-2002
The candidates might do better as a group than just running as individuals. As I had proposed before, they might form a unified front with a definite platform of improvements to the club which would attract votes. They might call themselves the "Progressive Members". Not to say they are democrates but rather would like to see improvements and still maintaining the core values of the club. The Save Wally folks and the VAC organizations would look like the best places to start, as they have demonstrated the ability to organize and operate successfully. They also seem to represent the most basic core values and a the same time are younger than average and are flexible enough to propose and provide activities that might attract younger members to membership than the "Old Boy" nework. There are some people like Bill Schrieder and people in the computer club who have demonstrated they ability to bring the club up to speed on the internet and public relations.
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Bill, you are correct. But let me explain further, not being able to vote discouraged MALs from rejoining.
Being a step child is not fun, when we joined the WBCCI as MAL we paid full price and thought we were full fledged members, then later we found out we could not even vote on WBCCI issues because we didn't belong to some other club!
Had it not been for the great 4CU which we were able to join, we would be gone!!! We now drive over a thousand miles to 4CU rallies. Can everyone afford that, time or money wise?
The right to vote could also turn around a number of AS owner non members to MAL, that I have talked to.
Let us change before we vaporize.
Thanks for listening,
John
John,
Not to step on 4CU, I am an associate of that unit, but try El Camino Real, we have a rally at Borrego Springs in October, a lot closer and you might enjoy.
Bill
__________________
Bill Kerfoot, WBCCI/VAC/CAC/El Camino Real Unit #5223
Just my personal opinion
1973 Dodge W200 PowerWagon, 1977 Lincoln Continental
1979 23' Safari, and 1954 29' Double Door Liner Orange, CA
The INC selects candidates for office -- they do not provide a list of competing candidates for office. There is no vote here -- there is no choice. There were at least two I3VP candidates this year that went before the INC. They selected one -- it's the way it works -- members don't have a choice -- a body of three -- this year IPP Shafer, Tetzlaf, and Richers will be telling you exactly who you will do your unanimous lemming nod vote for.
Do you see Pete Daniel or me being selected by the INC? I don't -- Shafer was at it again in his last 'announcement' on July 5th -- that the VAC meeting went well and that the real problem was with a different faction that is not under the control of the VAC.
The IBT does the good 'ol boyz shuffle. Region Officers that don't get selected for I3VP come back in different forms. SCCs, INCs, whatever. If the club has been in continual decline for the last decade you can look to the mind set and defeatist attitudes from a decade long 'ol boyz network.
The budget was based on annual membership losses of 4%. WHAT?! The younger generation aren't joiners. WHAT?! We have ~1,000 new members every year. We have plenty of joiners. We have more people walking away than renewing each year. That's the issue -- that's the problem. While I'm sure there is a long list of why people do not renew our leadership is not treating this like a business. We should have headquarters staff guided with a specific marketing script making phone calls to these people to participate in completely confidential surveys. Again a University statistics and marketing departments could be commissioned to help. No specific details should be shared with a previous members former unit (under the promise of confidentiality). They should merely collect the reasons why members don't renew and address the issues directly.
Our IBT claims to be members of a corporation but they don't run that corporation like a business with a marketing and sales plan and with a real need to attract and retain customers (members).
As for running -- we'll do a single mailing with as many candidadates/resumes as we can get to commit and we'll do roll calls in Bozeman. It's up to the 3-man INC to find a better way. Members will have a choice in Bozeman. It's unfortunate that under the old guard members will be unlikely to have that choice and a paper ballot to smooth the process over for Bozeman. Would you actually expect anything better?
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Leo G.
Wally Byam Caravan Club / VAC / CAC# 6006
Leo, we need enough candidates then that the roll calls take 3 days to complete. Not just a couple hours. Daaaaays to wear them out!
My wife and I looked at each other the other day when we were reading the bylaws and were trying to understand how the nominating committee worked. Your explanation is what we thought how we read it.
There's no way major changes can be made quickly the way the club constitution is written.
I also agree with the poster that recommended we form a "party" and have a qualified representative for all the elective office positions and run them all from the floor.
But the biggest hurdle I believe is getting the information to us minions in each of units bypassing the current leaders, whether they're at the IBT, Regional or those Unit Leaders that don't think change is necessary.
Before we assume that the current board members will refuse to print resumes and candidate information for non-IBT-endorsed regular members running for office at Bozeman, why don't you do a very public (WBCCI forum, this forum, newsletter campaigns mailed to all units and regions, whereever possible to share the information) petition to the board to print such information in the appropriate BB's prior to the Bozeman rally? Have your request complete, beautifully written, perfectly edited, subscribing to the format of the IBT candidates, yada, yada (!) so that it cannot be run down, ignored, and refused without a telling, nasty smear on the IBT face. Take the higher road on this, appealing publicly to the IBT in the broad interest of the club to welcome and show support for all WBCCI members who are prepared to actively participate in the leadership of the club. And thanking them in advance for their acceptance of the vote that follows. Will you need some funds for mailing? Just ask. Remember the ball field in Iowa? ~G
__________________
maxandgeorgia
1995 Airstream Classic Limited 30' ~ Gypsy
Chev Silverado 2500HD Duramax/Allison, 4X4, Crew Cab
WBCCI #5013 AIR #2908
WDCU
Go, Mizzou...Tigers on the prowl!
Before we assume that the current board members will refuse to print resumes and candidate information for non-IBT-endorsed regular members running for office at Bozeman, why don't you do a very public (WBCCI forum, this forum, newsletter campaigns mailed to all units and regions, wherever possible to share the information) petition to the board to print such information in the appropriate BB's prior to the Bozeman rally?
Georgia! Where have you been. I stayed up late at night in Perry waiting for you -- every night past midnight too!
I'm not assuming. Pete and I are putting together a letter to the INC copying the IBT to do just that. It's in Pete's court right now for editing/approval. We fully intend on giving them the opportunity to list an alternate slate of candidates, but it will be a Sanford & Son surprise (Here I come Elizabeth!) if they modify the process for an alternate slate. With notice they should do exactly that for the membership, to save a five hour roll call, but...
The post here was the first salvo -- they're watching you know (Hi BOYZ!)...
We appreciate the offer for financial support but it shouldn't be too bad. Printing, folding, stuffing, $.42x140 = <$70. Pete and I can handle that.
Thank you for the suggestion just the same. I'm always interested in what Georgia has to say (just don't tell Max!)...
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when we were reading the bylaws and were trying to understand how the nominating committee worked. Your explanation is what we thought how we read it. 
