Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-03-2011, 11:48 AM   #15
Stefrobrts's Avatar

1968 17' Caravel
Battle Ground , Washington
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,819
Images: 50
Blog Entries: 1
I hope they have many happy years of camping ahead of them, without all the politics. I wouldn't blame them a bit.


Stefrobrts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 01:33 PM   #16
Rivet Master

Vintage Kin Owner
North central , Florida
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,457
Damn, zz

1984 Avion 30p 9.1 meter. 2006 Dodge 3500 cummins srw short bed crew cab.
avionstream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 02:27 PM   #17
Site Team
Lily&Me's Avatar

2006 22' Interstate
Normal , Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,770
Can't say I'm sorry to hear Forrest has left the WBCCI. I have to feel that this was the right move for he and his wife, and be happy for them that they were able to see the path to take.

We all have to know what we are about, what we believe in and what we want to be associated with. Sounds like they knew.

Good for them. Travel safe.

🏡 🚐 Cherish and appreciate those you love. This moment could be your last.🌹🐚❤️
Lily&Me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 04:23 PM   #18
Rivet Master
Coloradobus's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 758
66 Overlander, The McClure departure is true. They departed membership with a note to HQ and our Unit. Reason was Club politics.
"62 ATW Overlander, '51 Flying Cloud
'67 GT, '90 Squarestream 29ft, 06 Bambi, Bigfoot slide in/GMC Denali K2500, Marathon Coach, Class A.
Coloradobus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2011, 07:09 PM   #19
Rivet Master
Forrest's Avatar
1986 32' Excella
Aurora , Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 636
Images: 21
Why I left the Club

A telephone conversation with the International Treasurer, Bob Moss, finally convinced me that my differences with the Club are irreconcilable. I asked him to verify that almost $30,000 had been spent on legal expenses involving the Defend Wally lawsuit. He put the figure closer to $27,000. I needed confirmation of that for an article I was writing for my Unit newsletter as to why the Proposed Revised Constitution should not be approved.

That led to an argument, and one of the things central to his viewpoint is the belief that the WBCCI is a social club. Over the years, I’ve heard this numerous times, and it explains a lot if you can look at it that way. Airstream becomes only a means to an end with that view, and allowing some other brand of motor home into a social club just isn’t such a “big deal,” in Bob’s words.

It’s a deal breaker for my wife and me. Ten years ago we did not say, “Oh, look at that social club. We really want to be part of that.” No, instead, we saw an Airstream club, and joined solely because we wanted to know more about Airstreams.

However, if we view the WBCCI primarily as a social club, it explains how it has had such things as parades, pageants, contests, luncheons, formal dinners, regimentation, awards, chain-of-command, and social strata. In that venue, an Airstream is just a vehicle marking some vague social status. This is why so often someone with a small vintage Airstream will hear comments about it being “cute,” followed by how, at some point, the owner, “will move up,” to something bigger and better. This applies to the SOB motor home issue too, as was noted in another thread, “they have slide-out envy.”

The Club’s focus on social etiquette is what got Leo G expelled. Both sides know that his expulsion had nothing to do with his violating any rule other than social convention. His refusal to acknowledge the superior social status of the EC7 or IBT or IPP Council, and his noisy incessant attempts to bring them down from those lofty perches are what made him intolerable to them.

Usually, less drastic methods are needed. One strong motivational influence is the promise of position, and keeping friends close, but keeping enemies closer. It is difficult to be critical when you become part of the problem. This is how the Defend Wally civil suit was neutralized, in exchange for a seat on the committee.

The Club’s leadership has proven repeatedly that it is willing and able to manipulate the membership, and are justified in doing so because of their belief that the WBCCI is their club, not ours. It reminds me of something I witnessed a number of years ago. A member of a fraternal order asked one of the officers if he was a, “member in good standing,” now that he had paid his dues. The officer looked at him with disdain and said, “No, you’re just a member.”

Social standing in the WBCCI is paramount. It is more important than numbers, and IPP Jim Franklin was being honest with his notorious statement that the Club should concentrate more on quality members than on quantity.

This indicates that they are quite willing to let the Club lose members and that they will never accept a more egalitarian arrangement.

The EC7 created the Revision Committee, and that committee reported to them. The committee did indeed write the revision to the Club bylaws first, and when that conflicted with the current Constitution, they took it upon themselves to rewrite that. They have told us that the revised constitution is more democratic with its direct voting concept, but I see it simply centralizing power and control with the EC.

The entire package is akin to some of the bills in Congress. It is sometimes referred to as, “logrolling.” It is the practice of combining different proposals, called riders, into a single bill. By doing this, such a bill might win majority support, whereas the riders, if presented as separate bills, would be defeated.

This is an old tactic and opposed to it is the single object rule that many states have to prevent a popular bill from being used to pass riders that are unpopular. “The single object rule is also intended to promote orderly legislative procedure and reduces the potential that legislators will unwittingly enact buried provisions that are extraneous to the general subject of the bill.”

The Revised Constitution Proposal is logrolling, plain and simple. The EC7 know that direct 1M1V is popular, but that changing the name of the Club is not. They know that change is popular, but that leaving the IBT in complete control of the bylaws is not. To maximize the effect, the proposal was kept secret until the last possible moment, and even now, the bylaws that it was written for, are secret. The EC7 knows what is in those bylaws and understands the riders that are attached.

Bob Moss and other International Officers feel that people like me are hurting the Club by the dissension we create. I cannot deny that contentiousness leads to loss of membership. I also understand that we cannot save the Club by destroying it. Never the less, the historical fact is that the greatest membership losses occurred long before I joined. Yet, I have never heard anyone in a position of authority admit that the loss of membership is due to the policies of the EC7, IBT or IPP (with the exception of past Region President Bob Thompson – who was suspended for his comments).

I have no doubt that if, instead, the Club was doing well, they would take credit for that, but not once have they accepted any credit for the decline. Instead, the loss of membership is blamed on others or on other factors. For a while, it was economy, or that the units are not doing their job to recruit. Later, it was the Vintage Airstream Club, then it was Save Wally, but always the blame is put elsewhere.

In so many words, Bob Moss asked me to compromise, and go along to get along for the sake of the Club. Why can’t I just do that? Well, it may simply be that some differences cannot be resolved. I do not want anyone to think that I left because of Bob, or that he’s less for seeking compromise. He’s a good guy, in a tight spot, doing his best to get through. I want to believe that.

After we hung up, it occurred to me though that as long as malcontents such as myself stay, the Club’s decline will be our fault. Yes, you read that right, because if it is our fault, then it is not their fault. Our presence enables the International officers to rationalize that. But if we leave the Club to them (as some of them have said we should), will that save the Club? If it does, will it be a club we want to belong to? Probably not, and either way, leaving seems the only logical way out of the dilemma.

They may be willing to do so, but I do not want to fight forever. One thing that my wife’s stroke impressed on me is that our time is limited. We can’t take it for granted and shouldn’t waste it on vain efforts.
Out for coffee!
Forrest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2011, 07:25 PM   #20
Rivet Master
wkerfoot's Avatar
1979 23' Safari
1954 29' Liner
Orange , California
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,611

Thank you, how eloquent.

Bill Kerfoot, WBCCI/VAC/CAC/El Camino Real Unit #5223
Just my personal opinion
1973 Dodge W200 PowerWagon, 1977 Lincoln Continental, 2014 Dodge Durango
1979 23' Safari, and 1954 29' Double Door Liner Orange, CA
wkerfoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2011, 08:44 PM   #21
4 Rivet Member
Howard E's Avatar
2007 25' International CCD
Lamy , New Mexico
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 268
Forrest, thank you and happy trails.

You and your wife will always be welcome at our camp fire!
Howard and Carolyn

Four Corners Unit Treasurer
WBCCI 5279, AIR #24915
Howard E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2011, 08:53 PM   #22
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
lewster's Avatar
Currently Looking...
Naples, FL , Hood River, OR
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,804

It is YOU that is the 'good guy' as you have enunciated the root causes of the WBCCI's problems more succinctly than I have ever heard them stated. If anyone has ANY DOUBT as to why the club will fail while on it's present path, a simple read of your statement above should provide them with a crystal clear picture of same.


Happy trails and happy camping. I hope our paths cross sometime in the future.
Lew Farber...RVIA Certified Master Tech...ABYC Certified Master Marine Electrician
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2011, 08:55 PM   #23
Commercial Member
eubank's Avatar
1967 30' Sovereign
Los Lunas , New Mexico
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,333
Forrest, this is a hard one, and I certainly understand and sympathize!

The problem with the WBCCI has, it seems to me, always been its dual nature: We wouldn't be members if it weren't about our Airstreams. However, we also wouldn't be members if it weren't for the people. Similarly, we find people who walk away from the club precisely because they don't like the unit they chose. Likewise, we also find people willing to raise Cain when proposals are made to do away with the Airstream-only requirement. Neither side of the club's dual nature can be ignored. It's a balance, but not an impossible one.

Maria and I will surely miss seeing you and Patrice at rallies. It's my hope that you'll take advantage of every opportunity join us and other DenCo members just the same. (And if you should decide to join us down here in Angel Fire, rest assured that your discount will continue just the same!)

WBCCI 21043
eubank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 02:45 AM   #24
Restorations done right
Commercial Member
Frank's Trailer Works's Avatar
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore , Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,547
Images: 2
I am so impressed with what I just read. Thank you Forrest for being a great man.
Frank's Trailer Works is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 12:36 PM   #25
Rivet Master
Tom Nugler's Avatar

1972 25' Tradewind
Currently Looking...
McHenry County , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,104
Images: 5
Thanks for the effort you and your compatriots have expended on behalf of the General membership.
Your reflections on the Amendment, Constitution and structure of the Club have reinforced my perception that the New Constitution is, for lack of a better term, a Bait and Switch.
I'm now convinced a NO vote is the correct choice.
Good luck and happy ‘Streaming without all the excess baggage.

AirForums # 2806
WBCCI / VAC # 6411

Not All Who Wander Are Lost.

Avid supporter of trailing edge technology.
Tom Nugler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 03:06 PM   #26
Rivet Master
mutcth's Avatar

2007 23' Safari SE
Central , Connecticut
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,621
Forrest, I just had to compliment you on your post. It was classy - well-reasoned, no-name-calling, informative. Thanks for that; this course of events must be very frustrating for you.

mutcth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 08:26 PM   #27
1 Rivet Member
Mr.InsideOut's Avatar
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 17

Nice explanation of the circumstances and reasoning leading to your decision. We'll see you and Pat at the 3rd Annual TCT Enchanted Encampment Rally in May!

Mr.InsideOut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 10:56 PM   #28
Rivet Master
NevadaGeo's Avatar

1978 31' Excella 500
Genoa , Nevada
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,220
Seems that Airstreamers would like an airstreamers club for airstreamers. Not necessarily an IBT club or MySOBisBiggerthanYours club. Hmm, is there a way to cut out the IBT bunch and retain the Forrests?
and no, my checkbook has not sent the renewal yet.

I admit to being powerless over housecleaning and social niceities
Airforums 22655 and now, WBCCI 22655

NevadaGeo is offline   Reply With Quote


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2011 WBCCI Membership Directory Totals streamer23 WBCCI Forum 28 09-06-2012 06:20 AM
WBCCI Feb. Presidents message RickDavis WBCCI Forum 83 04-04-2011 12:52 PM

Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities

Copyright 2002-2015 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:53 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.