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Old 12-28-2015, 11:59 PM   #855
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1966 22' Safari
Englewood , Colorado
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HI, I have a 1966 Safari that, from what I can tell, has spent most, if not all of its time in the Wyoming/Colorado area. It still has the number 17012 on it and I was wondering if there was any info on potential owner(s).

Thanks
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Old 12-29-2015, 05:04 PM   #856
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1967 26' Overlander
Haute-Aboujagane , New Brunswick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Overlander View Post
It is true that WBCCI does not keep records of Airstreams owned by members, nor rallies attended. Participation on "numbered" caravans is recorded for members, but not Airstreams used on them. Sometimes, we can make educated guesses though based upon Membership Directory records.

Your case is very tough, though. The number 25449 was not first assigned until 1971 and thus first appears in the 1972 Membership Directory, which means this number was not first assigned to your 1967 Overlander when it was new. This makes it much harder to know when this number was applied to the Airstream. Over the years, 25449 has been assigned in Membership Directories as follows:
1972-73: Vernon & Jean Higgs, Brookville, FL, no caravans.
1974-75: Unassigned
1976-91: Robert & Ruth Keller, Upper Marlboro, MD, no caravans.
1992+: Unassigned (only spot checked a few Directories)

It thus seems likely that either the Higgs or Kellers owned your 1967 Overlander, but I can only guess that it might more likely be the Kellers during at least part of the time they were in the club (they could have changed Airstreams over the years) because Maryland is closer to New Brunswick than Florida. But depending upon where you bought the Airstream and whether there might be dealer emblems or decals on it might tilt the likelihood to one couple or the other. In any case, neither of these possible owners participated on any numbered caravans, so we really cannot make any guesses about where it's been.

In seems that the Moncton 100 celebration occurred in 1990, so the Kellers could have taken the Overlander to that event if they owned it then. Or another owner may have taken it to that event. We really have no way of knowing.

That's all I can determine. Sorry that it's not much. Enjoy that Overlander!
Thank you for your reply and your research , it is very much appreciated ! It raises more questions than answers lol . We bought our Overlander from PEI . A short ferry ride to Moncton . The previous owners bought it from another Islander so I know it has been in PEI for a while . I haven't found any dealer decals so it may have changed hands privatly . On a positive note , the original number appears to be ours for the taking , if we decide to join the club !
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Old 12-29-2015, 07:45 PM   #857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioMike View Post
HI, I have a 1966 Safari that, from what I can tell, has spent most, if not all of its time in the Wyoming/Colorado area. It still has the number 17012 on it and I was wondering if there was any info on potential owner(s).
This is another toughie and may cause some doubt about what you were told about the prior history of your 1966 Safari. #17012 was first assigned in 1966 which is very appropriate for a 1966 Airstream. #17012 should thus first appear in the 1967 Membership Directory, but this is the only issue I am currently missing. From 1968 onward, #17012 was assigned as follows:
1967: Unknown
1968-1983: Fred R. & Ruth Kruger, Sebago Lake, ME (Maine, not Colordo), caravans 56, 63, & 84.
1984+: Unassigned (spot checked several, but not all issues)

So, what are the possibilities for your 1966 Safari?

1. #17012 was assigned to someone possibly in/near CO/WY in 1966 and was then reassigned to the Krugers in Maine the next year. This is very unlikely (but not impossible), because when a member does not renew, their number is typically reserved for a couple of years before being reasigned to someone else. Exceptions exist and often occur when a member sells their Airstream and informed the club that they will not be renewing, so that the new owner can get the same WBCCI # that is already on the trailer. This seems unlikely in this case.

2. The Krugers bought your Airstream when new and that is when the 17012 was assigned. How and when the Airstream got from Maine to Colorado, we do not know. This option brings the possibility that the Krugers may have taken your Safari on some or all of these caravans:
- 56 - Western Mexico Winter 1968
- 63 - Yucatan Winter 1969
- 89 - Mexico Fall 1972

3. Someone else owned your Safari after 1984 and joined the club but likely did not remain in the club very long, possibly being a "one and done" that joined after a Membership Directory was published, but not renewing and thus not being listed in the following Directory. I consider this unlikely, because by 1984 most new members were getting reassigned 4 digit numbers and generally only got 5 digit numbers if they bought a used Airstream that already had a 5 digit number on it. Also, it would be a coincidence if they joined in the 1980s or later with a 1966 Airstream and just by chance got randomly assigned a number that has been first assigned in 1966.

I actually believe that option #2 is the most likely. The Kruger's may very well have bought your Safari new, but they might have changed trailers some time during their time in the club, possibly soon after 1966. If they sold it on their way to or from one of their Mexico caravans, they could have sold it somewhere near Colorado. Mind you, this is just speculation, but such a scenario could support the contention that your 1966 Safari has been in/near Colorado most of it's life. On the other hand, if the Krugers sold it in 1983 or so when they did not renew in the club and it then made it's way to Colorado, that would still be a long time in that area.

That's all I got. Enjoy that Safari!
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Old 12-29-2015, 08:18 PM   #858
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What a great service you provide for everyone curious about the history of their numbers. Thanks!
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Old 01-22-2016, 10:03 AM   #859
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1967 28' Ambassador
1964 19' Globetrotter
1960 24' Tradewind
Edgewood , Kentucky
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I've got a couple you could help me with please.

First pic is a 1960 tradewind
Second (which am surprised it has a sticker, or maybe a knock off) is a Avion C-10 truck top.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 01-22-2016, 11:08 AM   #860
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The Avion might be registered with the old Avion Travelcade club. Don't know if any Avion people have an old register list. Nothing to do with the WBCCI.
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Old 01-22-2016, 11:41 AM   #861
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1962 22' Safari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtisanAir View Post
I've got a couple you could help me with please.

First pic is a 1960 tradewind
Second (which am surprised it has a sticker, or maybe a knock off) is a Avion C-10 truck top.

Thanks in advance!
First, let's address the Avion. There used to be an Avion club. I think their numbers were more squarish than WBCCI numbers, so that's an Avion club number and I cannot help.

Regarding the WBCCI number, the trouble with that is that 8505 was not first assigned by WBCCI until 1963 (and would thus first appear in the 1964 Membership Directory) and back then most Airstreams joined the club immediately when new. Given that this number could not have been applied to 1960 Airstream when new, it is hard to guess when it was applied. Also, the numbers are not extremely faded, which means they might be much newer than having been applied in 1963. Also, the club reuses numbers a couple of years after a member does not renew their membership. #8505 has been assigned as follows according to the Membership Directories:

1964-66: Dr. Ray & Mary Koch, Kankakee, IL, no caravans.
1967: Unknown (I am missing this directory)
1968-1980: Wilbur & Ciela Detter, Archibald, OH, Caravan 56-Western Mexico Winter 1968 & Caravan 67-Eastern Canada Summer 1969.
1981-82: Unassigned
1983-87: Glen & Maxine Pipins (or Pippins), Dexter, MO, no caravans.
1988-89: Unassigned
1990-92: Harold & Juanita Pomeroy, Lebanon, OH, no caravans.
1993+: Unassigned (I only spot checked a few directories, so it is possible someone else had this number for a year or two, but that would be it)

Given that you are in Kentucky, I would say that any of the couples that were assigned #8505 are close enough that it would be reasonable for their Airstream to have eventually made it's way to Kentucky, but I cannot offer any guess as to which one (or ones) most likely owned it other than to note that Lebanon, OH is closest to Edgewood, KY of the possible choices. Given that distance and the lack of fading on the numbers, maybe the Pomeroy's would be my most likely guess since they were also the last to be assigned 8505. But that's still just a guess.

Hope this helps.
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Old 02-01-2016, 08:28 PM   #862
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1968 30' Sovereign
Rockford , Michigan
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Hello. I have a 1968 Sovereign that I purchased in July of 2014. I am working on a omelette rebuild, and wonder if you can provide any information for me. The WBCCI number is 14752. I believe it has been in Michigan for quite a while. Thanks in advance for any information....
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Old 02-01-2016, 08:29 PM   #863
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1968 30' Sovereign
Rockford , Michigan
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Hmmmm. An omelette rebuild? No, a complete rebuild.... Oops.


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Old 02-02-2016, 12:08 AM   #864
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1962 22' Safari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newas4mark View Post
Hello. I have a 1968 Sovereign that I purchased in July of 2014. I am working on a omelette rebuild, and wonder if you can provide any information for me. The WBCCI number is 14752. I believe it has been in Michigan for quite a while. Thanks in advance for any information....
Mark
Quote:
Originally Posted by newas4mark View Post
Hmmmm. An omelette rebuild? No, a complete rebuild.... Oops.
Hi Mark,
Yeah, I had never heard of an "omelette rebuild" before, but I've certainly had some interesting auto-correct words, so that makes more sense.

Regarding #14752, it was first assigned in very late 1965 obviously before your 1968 Sovereign was built. #14752 thus should first appear in the 1966 Membership Directory, but is missing. I am missing the 1967 Membership Directory, but assume that what is shown in 1968 likely was the same in 1967 and would have been the same in 1966. According to the Membership Directories, #17452 has been assigned as follows:
1968-70: William A. & Rose Blake, Adelanto, Calif., caravan 66 - Western Canada - Summer 1969. (likely 1966-67, too)
1971-74: George & Elsa Weber, Scottsbluff, Neb. (1971) & Denver, CO (1973-74), no caravans.
1975-76: Unassigned
1977-92: Donald A. & Donna Howard, Lapeer, MI, no caravans.
1993-Current: Unassigned

It thus seems likely that the Howard's owned your 1968 Soveriegn since they were in Michigan, but I would doubt the Blake's and/or Weber's owned it unless it is a California built trailer. I would typically expect a vintage Airstream found in Michigan to be an Ohio built trailer, although it is not impossible that a California trailer might be found in Michigan.

That's all I got. Enjoy that Sovereign!
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Old 02-02-2016, 07:42 PM   #865
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1968 30' Sovereign
Rockford , Michigan
Join Date: Apr 2014
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Thanks for the information... A quick Google search showed that Donald Howard passed away in 2013, so I won't be able to talk with him. My trailer is definitely an Ohio build, so I think you are correct. I am enjoying the rebuild process. Hopefully we will be able to use it some this summer. Aluminum tent?
Mark


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Old 02-03-2016, 12:48 PM   #866
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1966 22' Safari
Englewood , Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Overlander View Post
This is another toughie and may cause some doubt about what you were told about the prior history of your 1966 Safari. #17012 was first assigned in 1966 which is very appropriate for a 1966 Airstream. #17012 should thus first appear in the 1967 Membership Directory, but this is the only issue I am currently missing. From 1968 onward, #17012 was assigned as follows:
1967: Unknown
1968-1983: Fred R. & Ruth Kruger, Sebago Lake, ME (Maine, not Colordo), caravans 56, 63, & 84.
1984+: Unassigned (spot checked several, but not all issues)

So, what are the possibilities for your 1966 Safari?

1. #17012 was assigned to someone possibly in/near CO/WY in 1966 and was then reassigned to the Krugers in Maine the next year. This is very unlikely (but not impossible), because when a member does not renew, their number is typically reserved for a couple of years before being reasigned to someone else. Exceptions exist and often occur when a member sells their Airstream and informed the club that they will not be renewing, so that the new owner can get the same WBCCI # that is already on the trailer. This seems unlikely in this case.

2. The Krugers bought your Airstream when new and that is when the 17012 was assigned. How and when the Airstream got from Maine to Colorado, we do not know. This option brings the possibility that the Krugers may have taken your Safari on some or all of these caravans:
- 56 - Western Mexico Winter 1968
- 63 - Yucatan Winter 1969
- 89 - Mexico Fall 1972

3. Someone else owned your Safari after 1984 and joined the club but likely did not remain in the club very long, possibly being a "one and done" that joined after a Membership Directory was published, but not renewing and thus not being listed in the following Directory. I consider this unlikely, because by 1984 most new members were getting reassigned 4 digit numbers and generally only got 5 digit numbers if they bought a used Airstream that already had a 5 digit number on it. Also, it would be a coincidence if they joined in the 1980s or later with a 1966 Airstream and just by chance got randomly assigned a number that has been first assigned in 1966.

I actually believe that option #2 is the most likely. The Kruger's may very well have bought your Safari new, but they might have changed trailers some time during their time in the club, possibly soon after 1966. If they sold it on their way to or from one of their Mexico caravans, they could have sold it somewhere near Colorado. Mind you, this is just speculation, but such a scenario could support the contention that your 1966 Safari has been in/near Colorado most of it's life. On the other hand, if the Krugers sold it in 1983 or so when they did not renew in the club and it then made it's way to Colorado, that would still be a long time in that area.

That's all I got. Enjoy that Safari!

Awesome information Joe. I think you are right on your assessment. I do know that in recent years the trailer was parked in a trailer park and not drive, not sure how long that was. The owner/occupant passed away and the trailer was acquired by a gentleman in Broomfield Colorado that owned it for a number of years before selling it to me. I am very happy to have some history on this trailer, and it looks like it did some great traveling.
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Old 02-06-2016, 12:47 PM   #867
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1970 27' Overlander
Marysville , Washington
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1970 International Overlander

We recently purchased a 1970 International Overlander and are beginning a slow restoration. It has the WBCCI number 10009 on it. We would like to gather as much of this AS's history as possible. Its serial number is 127T0-S204. Is the original WBCCI number available?

Thanks

Tom
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Old 02-12-2016, 10:32 PM   #868
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We recently purchased a 1970 International Overlander and are beginning a slow restoration. It has the WBCCI number 10009 on it. We would like to gather as much of this AS's history as possible. Its serial number is 127T0-S204. Is the original WBCCI number available?

Thanks

Tom
Hi Tom,
We can't tell you anything about where your Overlander has been based upon the serial number, but it does confirm it is a 1970 International 27' Overlander with twin beds that was built in the Cerritos, CA plant. The leading "1" should really be an "I":
I = International
27 = 27' Overlander
T = Twin Beds
0 = 1970
S = Built in Cerritos, CA
204 = Sequential Serial Number

Regarding the WBCCI #10009, I can tell you that it was first assigned in late 1963, obviously before your 1970 Overlander was built. The original assignees only remained in the club thru 1968, and the number was unassigned in 1969.

#10009 was then reassigned in 1970 to a new couple. Here is how#10009 has been assigned in Membership Directories from 1970 onward:

1970-75: Col. Chet H. and Inez Davis, Tacoma, WA, caravan 77 - Mexico Winter 1971.
1976-77: Unassigned
1978-79: J. O. Richardson, Albuquerque, NM
1980-82: Unassigned
1983-2002: Erwin & Elizabeth Michael, San Berdarino, CA, Caravans R82 - Las Vegas to Lake Placid Region 12 1985 & 158 - Eastern Canada Summer 1985.
2003+: Unassigned (only spot checked a few directories)

I would guess that that the Davis's bought your 1970 Overlander International when new in late 1969 and immediately joined the club since the 1970 Directory reflects membership as of 12/31/1969, and since #10009 was unassigned the previous year. This also makes sense because both the Davis's and you are located in Washington state. It thus seems probable that they took your Overlander on their caravan to Mexico in early 1971. I doubt the Mr./Ms. Richardson or the Michael's ever owned your Overlander because of the distance from Washington.

#10009 is unassigned in the current 2016 Membership Directory, so it is very likely it has not been assigned in the last month and is still available. You can contact the staff at club headquarters to confirm: membership@wbcci.org

That's all I got. Enjoy that Overlander!
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