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Old 06-10-2010, 06:51 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eubank View Post
If being flamed is the price one has to pay, then you'll find yourself excluding input from many members. Censorship by a different name.

Lynn

We actually occasionally do remove flaming posts (in the interest of full disclosure). Not because the view point is disagreed with but because sometimes posts are just too mean. We have a be nice rule here but we don't have a "you must fall in lock step with the party view rule". You can disagree, just do it in a collegial way.
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Old 06-10-2010, 07:06 PM   #30
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and thank you for allowing the sometimes civil discussion.
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Old 06-10-2010, 08:21 PM   #31
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It’s disappointing that some feel the need to discredit our views by casting aspersions on the underlying motives (“malicious gossip”). As for the conduct of our discussions at the Unit meeting, phrases like “feel good venting from drinking some hate mongers cool aid” are colorful but nothing more than fantasy. The poster wasn’t at the meeting, which was conducted with civility and respect for all views. There were no raised voices or emotional outbursts. We were simply responding to requests for Units to hold meetings to develop input to our Region officers and to 20/20. There is nothing subversive or irresponsible there. Members have every right to express their views, especially when they are sought.
As for fiscal measures, perhaps our failing is in the brevity of our message. This club currently has over 40 officers at levels above the Unit who are entitled to some degree of compensation for expenses. Finding people willing to serve is becoming a serious problem. Restructuring to reduce that number of officers and changing the role to reduce travel could serve a dual benefit. We don’t need and cannot afford multiple levels of management. It is cumbersome and costly.
Combining the Mid-winter Board meeting with another club event can only save money. We used the example of the Florida State Rally, as it has all the facilities necessary to conduct the Board meeting and is struggling with declining attendance. Other events in the winter in other States could also be used. This is a concrete, positive step that would be easy to implement.
We have Vision and Mission Statements as well as Objectives built into our Constitution. They are recent and they are fine. Other measures/objectives proposed in this thread are suitable for determining how you are doing, but first you need to know what you are doing. The club we have today can take steps to control our expenditures and can try some things to increase revenues. Building membership requires non-members to make the conscious decision to join and then to remain a member. We can’t force anyone to do that, we have to make our club attractive, inclusive and all those good words that mean your Airstream experience will somehow be better as a member of this club. That isn’t constitutional, it’s cultural.
Progress should be possible through civil discourse, the sharing of ideas and receptive leadership.
Cheers,
Kerry #5417
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Old 06-10-2010, 08:28 PM   #32
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So far, the request to hold meetings has not officially filtered down to our unit.
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Old 06-11-2010, 09:32 AM   #33
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The request to hold Unit meetings came from our Region 2 President Roy M back in mid-March. The Region Presidents are meeting with 20/20 at Gillette to provide their advice and Roy asked us to have our meetings before the Region 2 rally in late May. At the Region 2 rally, Roy held a round table of Unit Presidents to get their input. That is where our views were first tabled. Perhaps other Region Presidents chose not to engage their Units.

We are off this afternoon to lead our Unit caravan to Gillette, should be back home in mid-July.

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Old 06-11-2010, 09:37 AM   #34
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Kerry

Best of luck with your ideas at the International. You may not be received with open arms but your thoughts need to be put in front of the meeting.
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Old 06-11-2010, 10:26 AM   #35
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The request to hold Unit meetings came from our Region 2 President Roy M back in mid-March.
Nothing was said at our Region 9 rally about the meeting request, nor had there been any previous notice.

The rally actually turned out well, despite totally chaotic preparation by the RP. He was still recruiting chairpersons at the rally because it was not done well in advance. We were still getting email requests several days before the rally that should have gone out weeks before.
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Old 06-11-2010, 11:08 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eubank View Post
If being flamed is the price one has to pay, then you'll find yourself excluding input from many members. Censorship by a different name.

Lynn
In case you still have not gotten a full grasp between Flaming and Censorship you might want to view this.

YouTube - Video1.mov

This demonstrates how one can use software to completely block users that they do not want to have access to a given site.

Freedom of speech has a price.

While watching click on the You Tube banner at the top of the screen and that will send you directly to You Tube for a larger screen. You will have to close the Forums page while viewing or you will have a 2 audio signals
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Old 06-11-2010, 12:22 PM   #37
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When this was brought to the clubs attention in the form of a grievance against the forum operator (Cortez aka Gibson) chosen by C Burke, not only was the grievance dismissed, the person Tim K was warned that the accusation was frivolous.
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:38 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
In case you still have not gotten a full grasp between Flaming and Censorship you might want to view this.

YouTube - Video1.mov

This demonstrates how one can use software to completely block users that they do not want to have access to a given site.

Freedom of speech has a price.

While watching click on the You Tube banner at the top of the screen and that will send you directly to You Tube for a larger screen. You will have to close the Forums page while viewing or you will have a 2 audio signals
So flaming is good and censorship is bad?

Bill
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Old 06-11-2010, 07:52 PM   #39
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I struggle with this - I have always enjoyed Lynn's posts but must have missed the flames. I am against them and for Lynn.

Pat
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Old 06-12-2010, 09:26 AM   #40
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Interesting to see Brynal move from being dismissive (post 8 - "typical product of those who talk but have no responsibilities to get the job done) to insulting (post 22 - "malicious gossip", "hate mongers cool-aid", "feel good ideologues" "platitudes and wishful thinking", "demonstrably false and scurilous allegations".

I don't know where Bryanl got the idea that our meeting and the many discussions that preceded the meeting was based on the above. We are pretty decent and responsable bunch of people not given to stampeding in pursuit of false idols. Our meeting was well run and not fueled by "hate mongers cool-aid".

Bryanl comes pretty close to going over the line of not "being ever mindful.....". A little respect for those who have honest concerns about the way the club is being led might be in order. And I hasten to add that our unit has such honest concerns.
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Old 06-13-2010, 09:43 AM   #41
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re: "We are pretty decent and responsable bunch of people not given to stampeding in pursuit of false idols." -- I have not said otherwise. Why do you think this?

There are problems which I have tried to describe. Consider the complaint about grievances. There are two loaded words (punishment and secrecy) that need similarly weighted support for proper balance that is not in evidence. And then consider that the complaint is demanding that the WBCCI not be able to express its right of association and that individuals be denied a right of privacy. Do you really want to squash such rights just as a matter of personal preference?

re: "Bryanl comes pretty close to going over the line of not "being ever mindful....."" -- again, a very heavy allegation that is not well considered or thought out. If you find anything I actually said (not what was thought I said) that addressed the person and not the behavior, spell it out. There is a pattern of misperception without consideration of implications that is truly frightening.

I don't doubt the meeting was well run but the outcome as stated in the OP speaks for itself. I have described specific weakness in that outcome as well as described specifically why it does give the impression that it appeared to be " fueled by "hate mongers cool-aid". " It is highly indicative that, rather than address substance as I have, there is defense and there is an attack on me. Again two specific behaviors that, IMHO, need some very careful consideration.
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Old 12-23-2010, 12:00 AM   #42
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For those of us looking for a family-friendly Airstream club... the WBCCI is a lost cause... sorry to say.
Though I am new to Airstreaming, I agree with this statement.
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