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Old 06-08-2010, 08:49 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Kerrbett View Post
Implementing change will require extensive rewrites of Constitution and Bylaws.
And just how do you expect to have extensive rewriting of the Constitution and Bylaws when the same people that write those bylaws are the same people that pass on there legality?

One of the thrust that will be addressed in the suit is challenging this lack of separation in the structure of the Leadership. If you have not read it as of yet there is a motion moving up through the system, that if left to the Leadership will be killed. The suit if successful will require a revamp of this monolith of power.

Here is the proposed ammendment

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...ion-59520.html

Read it and see if it doesn't warrant a helping hand.
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Old 06-08-2010, 08:50 PM   #16
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Thumbs down Enough Already

the TAC stalking of every WBCCI thread is getting to be a bit much gentlemen.
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Old 06-08-2010, 09:17 PM   #17
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the TAC stalking of every WBCCI thread is getting to be a bit much gentlemen.
Rodney,

I am a fully paid member of the WBCCI...so why is it that I can't comment? I bring up The Airstreamer's Club only as a living example of what the WBCCI just refused to provide. As I said, they don't even want us members to be able to do what we would like to do on our own. Until that changes... you bet I will be commenting on these threads.
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Old 06-09-2010, 07:48 AM   #18
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Right Leo... Kerry's points are all on target, but the problem here is not a lack of ideas. It is that the folks in charge do not care to listen to them.

To that end, they went so far as to kick you out of the club... and... to have another plan waiting in the wings to kick you out again should you find a way back in.

What makes you think they will now consider the Ontario Units good points?
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Old 06-09-2010, 08:03 AM   #19
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Right Leo... Kerry's points are all on target, but the problem here is not a lack of ideas. It is that the folks in charge do not care to listen to them.

To that end, they went so far as to kick you out of the club... and... to have another plan waiting in the wings to kick you out again should you find a way back in.

What makes you think they will now consider the Ontario Units good points?
A changing of the guard has to occur, don't you think? The old ways are pretty entrenched up top, and there is not going to be a quick and clearly visible metamorphosis, IMO. That's just not the way change happens. Small, observable behaviors change first, attitudes/beliefs/perceptions and internalized changes come later.

There is attention being paid to all this hubbub, careful monitoring of the threads and posts here and those within the WBCCI who want to see positive and enduring changes occur. Some are looking for signs of an epiphany or "ah-hah" moment, I don't believe we're going to see that and it's just not realistic to expect it.

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Old 06-09-2010, 08:35 AM   #20
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Wow, I was hoping for some discussion and we have that in buckets. Thank you everyone. That said, some specific responses. To HowieE, a member brought Forrest's motion to our attention before our Spring Meeting and the Unit members voted very strongly to support the Motion. To those who say you can't have fun in WBCCI, we have a lot of fun in our Unit. We had 90 Airstreams at our Spring Rally and everyone had a ball. The Unit really is the heart, but we have too many small struggling Units that are aging out. At some point, we probably need to consolidate Units, but that is for the local members to decide.

We are certainly aware of all the talk over the past few years about modernizing WBCCI and we have been part of that. We are not trying to downplay the efforts of others. This time, we are trying to be more specific. My fear is that we were seeing the start of some minor tinkering (eliminate the I3VP) when we need major surgery (eliminate the whole EC). The EC and IBT as well as 2020 need to see a groundswell from Units all across the club to overcome the inertia. We all need to push and some are choosing to do that via the legal route, others with different tactics. No one effort may be successful on its own, but in combination success may be achieved. If it isn't, we want to ensure that the good times we have in our Unit will continue unabated whatever the fate of WBCCI.

Cheers,
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Old 06-09-2010, 10:28 AM   #21
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re: "most of the club run non-profit sites I frequent only have ads for merchandise sold through the club. There is generally no commercial advertising except through a link tab." -- this is called manufactured rationale. Take a look at organizations like the ARRL, IEEE, AARP, and more and you'll find that in both print and online publication they use advertising to support their efforts. The key issues are the cause for trying to generate revenue and the governance structure of the organization.

re: "I thought the job of the officers of a corporation was to maximize the benefit provided to the share holders and increase the net worth of the operation." -- This is true for a commercial adventure but not for a nonprofit. Look at the laws for nonprofit incorporation or the tax exemption rules, to see the differences.

Nonprofits differ from 'commercial' organizations in that they don't try to fatten the wallets of the owners but rather to further their mission. The governance of nonprofits also tends to be volunteer and elected. The accountabilities of a nonprofit is to the public while that of a commercial organization is to its owners.

Quote:
The purpose of a single town hall meeting of members is not to prepare a detailed management study, it is to get a solid feel for what active members of the Unit want to see their club become.
The suggestion was not for a detailed management study but rather for concrete suggestions based on fact and not on malicious gossip.

It is a member's responsibility to be constructive in his efforts with the organization. That means making sure that the basis is correct and the efforts are constructive.

Feel good venting from drinking some hate monger's cool aid is not constructive 'town hall' behavior IMHO.

Our society is plagued by 'feel good ideologues' who don't incorporate reality in their thoughts and instead float around on platitudes and wishful thinking. It has only created misery and destruction in society and governance. Even in the small, with recreational clubs such as WBCCI, we need to discipline ourselves for intellectual integrity and appropriate consideration for honesty and constructive efforts.

Make sure you know your target before pulling the trigger else you may find you have shot something dear to your heart.
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Old 06-09-2010, 12:42 PM   #22
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Ontario did a good job identifying what their members liked and the things they wanted changed about the club, as the 2020 Committee and Norm Beu requested. It was not their request that all the units formulate detail Constitutional revisions (in the proper legal terms) to be enacted by the delegates.

Byaml, I see nothing in your posting of the detail changes that are needed to save this club from bankruptcy in the next five years.

There are similarities between well run corporations and well run non-profits. They have a good long range vision and meet their customer's and members' needs.

There are similarities between poorly run corporations and poorly run non-profits. They do not meet their objectives. They lose money and funding and go bankrupt.

The Executive Directory of Good Sam ( Sue Bray) has just moved on after helping that club increase it membership from 200,000 to 1,000,000 members. In the same time period WBCCI's membership had dropped from 20,000 to 6,400 members. She has set up a consultant service at Susan Bray | consulting & marketing for membershhip clubs. We might consider renting a little of her time and talent.
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Old 06-10-2010, 09:45 AM   #23
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re: "what their members liked and the things they wanted changed about the club" -- The problem with expressing a desire for 'hope and change' without specification or evidence or proper referent is that you set up a lose-lose scenario for all involved. That is why it is irresponsible membership (or citizenship).

For instance, when you have demonstrably false and scurilous allegations such as "It is that the folks in charge do not care to listen to them" you highlight the fact of your own involvement in the problem.

When the leadership gets feedback that is 'pie in the sky' lacking effective referent and with no specificity, they have no way to determine what it is that is actually causing discomfort (and the ambiguity is often related to desires that cannot be expressed without their absurdity becoming evident).

When you have 'eager to please' leadership in this situation, they will do something, anything, to try to meet the complaint. The problem is that no matter what they do, the odds of actually hitting the source of complaint are quite small, especially as they will address what has been said rather than what is behind the words. That means they have been set up to lose. And that means those doing the complaining will also lose.

re: "Byaml, I see nothing in your posting of the detail changes that are needed to save this club from bankruptcy in the next five years." -- (I am honored at the name typo!) -- predicting the future is a tough business. ... But what is interesting in this context is that none of the items in the OP address fiscal matters in any substantial way nor do they express any recognition of what is being done to address budget issues. Again, another example of using evidence lacking fears or other emotion without solid referent or any constructive suggestion that can be weighed and measured.

It is also interesting that one concrete active undertaking to help with budgeting issues was attacked in this thread. It is a good example of the lose-lose process I described.

From the post about "Socratic Posturing" you can also see that there is an active campaign fostering the 'lose-lose' scenario. That is the cancer in our society that must be exposed for what it is. I see some evidence that that is happening but I worry that it may be too little, too late. We have so many issues where the tactics of ridicule, deceit and distortion, empty allegation, and vacuous promises hold sway. It is up to each and every one of us to notice and take heed else we will suffer the consequence.
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Old 06-10-2010, 12:21 PM   #24
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Between Leo and Kerry Lies the Salvation of WBCCI

It seems to me that you guys are right on target with great ideas and visions to save our club.
It is too bad the the rest of our WBCCI members won't necessarily ever see your suggestions because of censorship on behalf of the WBCCI leadership.
Too bad that the WBCCI Forums is closed to open minds.
Too bad that the Blue Beret is closed to open minds.
Too bad the EC won't just resign and give back our club to the members that pay the bills! Perhaps they should form their own club. Have SOB motorhomes, change their name etc.
I would for one like to tell each of you that I appreciate all your thoughtfulness and efforts in trying to save our club.
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Old 06-10-2010, 12:51 PM   #25
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You know, it's a pretty sad story. The WBCCI forums and the BB are censored to filter out contrary views. These views are not censored on Airforums, but woe be to you if you should happen to disagree with a contrary view, for you will be flamed. So take your pick: Censorship or flaming. Neither choice is particularly appealing to me.
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:02 PM   #26
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You know, it's a pretty sad story. The WBCCI forums and the BB are censored to filter out contrary views. These views are not censored on Airforums, but woe be to you if you should happen to disagree with a contrary view, for you will be flamed. So take your pick: Censorship or flaming. Neither choice is particularly appealing to me.
Lynn
Lynn

It has long been known that there is heat in the kitchen and the offer has always been there to exit if it get too hot. Given the choice and believing in a cause I will take the heat and the option to leave over being locked out altogether.

Lets keep focused here. You can't bake beard if you can't get to the kitchen.
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:12 PM   #27
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Perhaps something we can do here is begin a list of clear, concise, measurable objectives for change that we would like to see adopted by the WBCCI as something akin to "mission statements".

For example:

WBCCI will increase/retain membership by _____ by _____ , as indicated by _____.

WBCCI will reduce IBT expenditures by (percent) by (date) as indicated by _____.

WBCCI will develop an election process that includes _____ by ______. WBCCI will implement this process within all units by _____.

etc., etc.

??

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Old 06-10-2010, 03:20 PM   #28
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If being flamed is the price one has to pay, then you'll find yourself excluding input from many members. Censorship by a different name.

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Lynn

It has long been known that there is heat in the kitchen and the offer has always been there to exit if it get too hot. Given the choice and believing in a cause I will take the heat and the option to leave over being locked out altogether.

Lets keep focused here. You can't bake beard if you can't get to the kitchen.
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