Problem with IBT Amendment No. 1

[wnew1130]

This is a copy of an email that was just sent off to Mr. Elmlinger.

Art & I do not consider ourselves to be "ill informed". In fact, we are very well informed, in part due to this forum, the WBCCI forum and the Save Wally forum. Not to mention, the Blue Beret, and the Internationals, unit rallies and Caravan's (three in the last year) that we have participated in. We also spend five months a year in an Airstream community in Florida. No, I don't think we are "Ill-informed". But perhaps there is a different criteria for being informed? We are not of the inner-circle of the Club. Just regular members who joined the Club for the love of Airstreams and the joy and excitement of Caravanning.

That's explains our "going to any length to remain part of the Club": the caravanning and rallies!!!! Sure the people are nice, but the real fun is the caravanning. That's why we sold our two year old Airstream Class A diesel pusher and still remained members of the Club. We could have kept the dang thing (it certainly wasn't worn-out) and kept it running for a good many years. In fact, we are certain that thanks to the numerous repairs and rebuilds done in Jackson Center, the new owners have a much better unit than when we owned it. We didn't like motorhome driving, living or camping. We actually prefer living and traveling in our 1975 Airstream 25 foot Tradewind! And it has enough closet space for us because we're not obligated to wear a tux and ball gown, or a red coat and white flannels for that matter.

Mr. Elmlinger's fear of Airstream and Thor pulling out "a six figure monetary subsidy" is very revealing. The WBCCI is held hostage to Thor and Airstream! WOW, that's big news. The Club has to make them happy. Not the members, the corporate entity. Allowing "grandfathered" members to purchase an SOB will cut the funding from Thor and Airstream. All this in addition to Airstream "putting our collective backs to the wall' by getting out of the motorhome market. (Really just the Class A market: they still make Sprinter's and Westphalia's.)

Oh, and where does that six figure subsidy go? As a Thor stockholder, I'd like to know. Just what is that money subsidizing? The WBCCI, Thor and Airstream should be doing a better job in letting the general membership know. If I were running those corporations, I'd be making sure that they did know. Or is there something to hide?

As far as "grandfathering" creating a second class membership, yet MAL's are not because they have the option of joining a unit? Any member that would be "grandfathered" also has options. Option 1: buy an Airstream product. Option 2 thru 10,000: they can join FMCA, Good Sam, or Fleetwood's club, or Holiday Rambler's club or Winnebago's, or whatever they choose. (I can't join the Chevy club because I own a Dodge, but that's a whole 'nother thing that the Club's leadership doesn't get.)

Mr. Elmlinger doesn't want to "tell Life-Members that they are not now really Life-Members." Are you a Life-Member if you no longer own an Airstream and buy a Winnebago? Can you do that now? In Article VI, Section C it is stated that Regular Members can't buy another brand of RV. Do you want to tell Life Members that their Airstream club is open to SOB's? Line up them lawyers. (Maybe, like last year, we can use the same Airstream lawyer?)

The rationale that the Club will lose 20% of it's membership is based on what kind of new math? Isn't 860 motorhome owners in a club of 6,919 members (2006 year), 12.4%? Are they all leaving next year if the "motorhome amendment doesn't pass? Are they all drinking Kool-Aid?

How many members will stay in an Airstream club that is not an Airstream club? My feeling is a lot more members will leave in disgust, if this ill conceived amendment to the very basis of the Club's foundation should pass, than would be retained by letting in SOB's. (Any way you look at it, if it's not made by, sold and serviced by Airstream, it's an SOB.) What happens down the road if Thor "puts our collective backs to the wall" again and sells off Four Winds?

As far as volunteerism goes, we have volunteered at our Unit level. We co-hosted rallies. We cleaned toilets. We prepared and served meals. We washed floors. Last year, Art was on three different committees at the International. We've given months of our lives to be "early worker's" at various Internationals (and had the pleasure of losing $700+ of Caravan fees for the privilege of doing so). Yup, that's what "real members" do. They volunteer in any way they can, when they can. They do not expect to be led by a leadership that is loftier than them. A leadership that retreats to its "Gold" section can only be separated from the "real members", the little worker bees.

Our life on the road prohibits us from holding office in a unit. But when we stop traveling full-time we will assume more responsibility. We know that we are not material for the International level. We express our thoughts, not the party line. And we stand behind all the other Club members that also speak their minds. We might not like what they say, but we don't give them pursed lips and head shaking, silence as our esteemed leaders have given to us. And we would never tell others that they are "ill-informed" because they have a different opinion. How condescending!

As far as the excuse that the Club is not attracting new Airstream owners because "younger people are not joining any organization". Poop. WUASMTC! Younger people join "youthful" clubs: Harley Davidson and other single brand clubs, or vintage interest clubs like Tin Can Tourists. (Note to self: is that why the VAC gains members every year?) The WBCCI has not positioned itself for that market, because it doesn't want that market, or is the leadership is too inept to tap that market? Art and I are at the start of the Baby Boom generation. We retired at 55, sold the house, and are enjoying our life on wheels. I bet there are a lot more young retirees coming down the pike, just yearning to "Live more, see more, do more". Give them the Club they deserve, or they will find it elsewhere. I danced at Woodstock, I marched in Washington. I'm not wearing a red coat, pursing my lips and waiting for an invitation to the President's Ball and I'm appalled at our Club having over 20 different kinds of badges. For Heaven's sake, who needs that kind of nit-picking? And I am resentful of a slate of officers that runs unopposed. You bet. Are we, the members, deemed too stupid to make a decision? It sure looks like some people think so. Are we so stupid or "ill-informed", that it's not even "one member, one vote"?

Oh, by the way, if the motorhome amendment does pass, we will retain our membership because we enjoy the caravans, rallies and the VAC. But we won't be "real members", because we'll spend our energy and time volunteering in a club that has real member\leadership.


Carol (& Art) Hall
WBCCI #12461

[rideair]

All,

This is what I have sent back to Mr. Elmlinger. I again, want to "THANK" him for responding to my email and allowing me to post his reply. I think we all want the WBCCI to grow and become once again the club it once was. We just have very different thoughts on how we get there. So, with that said, here it is:


Mr. Elmlinger,

Thank You, for your response, I have posted it along with Mr. Thompson’s response. I “Thank” both of you.

You bring up some very good points.

• Money from Airstream, Inc. (THOR)
• Associate Members would feel like second class citizens
• Class-A Motorhome owners do most of the work.
• Magical answers of how to recruit new members
• Life Members hiring attorneys
• Disenfranchising 20% will not help gain new members
• Time for those complaining to take on more of a role.
• Young members do not have time to devote, but do what they can.

If it’s the money you are worried about, then give the “Associate Member” the option to buy any “THOR” Class-A Motorhome, not any motorhome. Many people I have spoke with do want any brand other that Airstream allowed in the club, so some may say, even this is a gift of thanks. As for the “second class citizens” it sounds like there are currently hard feelings from the Class-A members anyway in regards to doing most of the work. I agree, more people need to step up to the plate. But, don’t forget, you were once the “younger group” and at one time had the older group doing most of the work for you! When our time comes, we will do the same. The answer to getting new members is not magic. Unlike other clubs, Lions, Elks, Masons, etc… The WBCCI has a company “Airstream” that is building/selling 2500 new trailers each year and many older trailers being restored for use. Let me say this, in the past I have “always” defended the WBCCI, even when its members; members that have left and possible new members have made fun of, disliked, not understood the red jackets, ties, Blue Berets, Flags, military style, etc… of a “caravan/camping club”. To many of our baby-boomer and younger members “It’s just camping”. I’ve had people email me asking “Why do I have to wear a suit and tie, in Perry GA, in the middle of summer, just to have dinner”. In their eyes, their not going to work, a wedding or a funeral, their going camping. There is no doubt, the WBCCI is aging as a club, with that, comes all the more reason to change from the once “appreciated club style” of the 50’s 60’s and 70’s to a more “relaxed style” today. Has anyone noticed what Airstream, Inc. has done to market its products? They as a company found they needed to change the look of their product to a newer “relaxed style” of trailer. We as a club need to do the same. I hear all the time where people say they joined a unit, but found no value or fun in being a member of that unit. I personally think, they should have stayed a member and tried to fix the unit of which they joined. But to often I hear; I did not join the WBCCI to fix a broken club or unit. You talk about Life Members and the suing that could take place, what do you think is going to happen if this motion passes? That the “Life Members” who join an “Airstream only” club are just going to roll over? No, you will have many members leave the club and those who are Life Members will bring suit against the WBCCI and the IBT. I do agree more people need to step up to the plate and volunteer. I’m the first to say, members, you need to step up, but I’ve found many just want to be asked. If asked, they will help and do as much as they can.

Who knows, maybe in the end, it would be best to give back all “Life Member” Class-A motorhome owners, who want this change, who feel they do all the work for the club away, their money back. You/they could then take all that money and start the “Airstream/Thor Motor Home Caravan Club International”. Then no one would have any reason to feel like a second-class citizen in the new “ATMCCI”. This would allow the WBCCI to get back to its roots, allow the Class-A motorhome owners (who want this change) to keep buying and doing all the work in their new club in their new Four Winds motorhomes at their new club events. Being the WBCCI would still be an “Airstream only” club, Airstream/Thor would have no reason to stop giving the WBCCI its “six figure monetary subsidy”. Trailer owners would be forced to step up and start doing the work, like they did in the past. These “new” volunteers could push and change the club from the old red jackets; ties and Blue Berets and military style system, to one where the meetings have people that are dressed in polo shirts, shorts and possibly ball-caps. The new laid-back style of the WBCCI would attract more new owners of Airstream trailers and B-Vans and over time would grow.

I’m not trying to be smart/rude or ungrateful by saying this. If the amendment passes as written, you will have many if not more members leave this club than Class-A motorhome owners that will be forced to leave if this change doesn’t happen. If it doesn’t pass, over time you may have members forced to leave, either way, it’s not going to be pretty. But, like the old saying goes, “Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater”.

Maybe the WBCCI is much like an old tree in the back yard, if left alone, it grows and grows to the point were the growth at one time, has started to die and kill the tree. Only by pruning back the dead and limbs that have taken over, can the tree survive. Maybe it’s time for the WBCCI to be pruned so it can once again grow into a beautiful tree.

I want to again, “Thank You” for your response and letting me post it for the membership to see. I’m sure we’d both agree that both of us deeply care for the WBCCI, its members and its future. The difference, I think between us, I’m trying to take the WBCCI into the future and you are trying to keep it in the past. If we as an “Airstream” only club use the romance of travel that the WBCCI instilled in so many people during the 50’s 60’s and 70’s with the needs of “baby-boomers” wanting to relive that same romance but this time driving the car instead of sitting in the back seat, this club will once again be the club that it once was in the past. I just hope in the end that you and others do not take away from us the very club that you have enjoyed for 52+ years.

Paul Waddell
WDCU Prez (In the words of Richard Nixon, “I’m not a crook”)

[lewster]

Originally Posted by gyandell

Who said," I would not join any club that would have me as a member"?

Groucho Marx?

And thanks to rideair and wnew for their eloquent messages. You have done a great job in summarizing the general feelings of most of this group and I applaud your efforts and agree with you 100%!

[WALLY 54]

Originally Posted by Here is a copy of "Jim Elmlinger" response.

"Maybe its time for those doing all of the complaining to take on more
of the leadership roles, such as Region and International Officers,
Rally chairmanships and get better informed and more involved."

Originally Posted by wheel interested

Can we really do this? How many positions are open? I think we can find volunteers. Can we campaign? That would be cool. Or does he mean volunteers from certain people that are in an "approved" status and brought in by the nominating committee?

Carol, girlfriend, I got your back. Let's get Paul to run for Int'l Prez. Yeah, that's it. I'll run for, oh... I don't know... say... Int'l 2nd VP if you go for 1st VP. Can we get this on the ballot for Perry. I'll have a Website up tomorrow for us. (Yes, it can happen that quickly -- it is afterall the 21 Century!)

I don't know about anyone else but I have a lot of time to contribute and am ready willing and able. How about if I start by re-vamping the Blue Beret and get the club communications online by, oh... say... next month?

The IBT apprears to have NO idea who is in the club is or who the club is becomming. I say, it's the blind leading us all down the wrong road. And now we're all stuck at a weird corner and our trailers won't budge.

Originally Posted by "Jim Elmlinger" response

"If we tried "Grandfathering" Airstream would not be happy to the tune of a 6 figure monetary subsidy being withdrawn. That would be a very devastating financial blow to our Club. Like it or not we have ties to not only Airstream, Inc., but to Thor Industries, Airstream, Inc. owner."

If I don't like something I work to change it. Quips like 'like it or not' are a challenge. We can change it. First thing to go would be dollars spent on travel expenses, 1,500 bucks for one IBT member, for just one event, times however many IBT is a waste of money. Second thing to go is the wasted monies on excessively printed materials, of which 3/4's of could be put online. (Not a 'blog' space. A Website!).

(It has been explained over and over how Airstream and Thor don't mess in club business or effect club operation or vote. The '6 figure' statement is a direct contradiction, or should I say 'oxymoron' to what we have been led to believe.)

The ax would keep swinging from there.

Break the ties that bind, baby! Re-vamp the rules.


VOTE NO on the entire International slate when it comes to your unit in April (THIS MONTH). They're going to win anyway -- might as well make them sit through a 45 minute roll call and let them hear YOUR voice. Especially if you won't be in Perry! If they get in through another club-wide unanimous YES election they're just going to fumble around and find another disaster for '08. When is enough, enough?

[bfred]

WOW! we are really getting somewhere now. I have served 14 years as a school board member in the capacity of president,vice president,secretary and treasurer. 4years township trustee and am presently a union negotiator for the fire dept and will accept any position WALLY 54 wants to give me.
As a class "A" owner, who the hell said driving a 39' MH with a toad attached is easier on your health than pulling a trailer hasn't drove through N.Mex in the crosswinds.
It appears this issue is one of politics and as such, we try to clutter the issue with BS. If 20% of the WBCCI is in the market for a class "A" motorhome can I find a partner to pick up a four winds francise?
It is not all that complicated. All the WHAT IF'S do not change the fact that you have to have a Airstream manufactured product to belong to WBCCI period, just as Monaco,Mandalay,Country Coach,Prevost etc. require to belong to their travel/camping club. The IBT could all remain friends if they all belonged to the FMCA. We would welcome them with open arms as we put on some of the largest rallies in the world.

[SilverCabin]

Originally Posted by rideair

Trailer owners would be forced to step up and start doing the work, like they did in the past. These “new” volunteers could push and change the club from the old red jackets; ties and Blue Berets and military style system, to one where the meetings have people that are dressed in polo shirts, shorts and possibly ball-caps.

Where do I sign up?

BTW: Since I'm new to this, I contacted the leadership of my unit and was told we would be voting against the ammendment if it comes to a vote.

Randy

[SilverCabin]

Originally Posted by 65GT

...and what if they had told you they would be voting for it?

Well...good question. Since I'm new to this and trying to come up to speed on the issues, I would have started asking questions based on everything I'm reading here, which has been very helpful.

Hey! I'm on your side here. If you have any advice, please share it.

Reconnection is not the problem. I'm new here. I'm trying to get connected. I haven't actually met any of my unit's officers yet except by email and phone, but I know other people in the unit and we are all of like mind. When I finally get connected, you can be sure I'll be a voice for change in the club.

Randy

[rideair]

April 9, 2007

Paul,

I have read your responses, which appears to mainly address issues other than those
revolving around the Class-A motorhome problem that WBCCI faces today. Also, you have
completely misinterpreted and mischaracterized what I wrote and how others and I feel
about volunteering. I absolutely was not complaining, nor am I aware that there are any
“hard feelings” about the effort that I or others, for that matter, who happen to own
Class-A motorhomes, put into WBCCI (I still do not know how you were able to get so
turned around with what I wrote, since volunteers are not paid, if they don’t like it
they just don’t do it any more, they don’t complein). It is just to point out the
obvious that those that appear to be very heavily involved (volunteering) just happen to
own Class-A motorhomes and to use your quote; “Don’t throw the baby (the Class-A owners)
out with the bathwater,” i.e. don’t force them out of the Club and don’t turn them into
second class members. Human nature being what it is, lackeys will not volunteer (most
likely not at all) the same as “real” members will. Also, I somehow don’t see the
connection between volunteering and your “if asked.” Pleas are continuously being put
out there asking for help in all kinds of areas from Unit and Region Officers to Rally
chairmen (a good example is page 49 in the April issue of the Blue Beret). Most of us
that volunteer, just show up and say, “what does anyone need help with?” That is how
members get involved!

You also use the phrase “over time” a number of times in your reply. Unfortunately, time
appears to be the one thing that we do not have, if we want to save the Club. Your idea
of splitting the Club will only doom both parts to failure.

I do not believe that WBCCI can be singled out from every other organization in the U.S.
also having falling membership problems, as having a completely different reason for
their falling membership, as you suggest. That is just not realistic. I also find it
hard to believe that out of all the hundreds of people that became first time owners of a
new Airstream in 2006, over 90% of them said that, I would like to join WBCCI, but, lets
see, IF I get involved and happen to become a Unit President, then attend an
International Rally and the Unit President’s Appreciation dinner, where I would have to
wear a coat and tie, NO I don’t think I will join WBCCI. Somehow I have a hard time with
such scenario, I think it is more likely people are not joining because they do not want
to make a commitment, which seems to be one of the themes of our societies current
philosophy.

You want to get rid of the suits, ties blue beret, red coats or whatever. GO FOR IT!
All YOU have to do is start writing motion(s) to go before the IBT to get them to change.
I personally have no problem with that, as they did not specify “no shorts please” until
I became a Region Officer. Do you think this will pass the first try, probably not, but
what about the second or third? The down side to this is it relates back to the time
issue, which I still feel is maybe our worst enemy. I will also add that being in Region
XII lets you know that I most probably live in California (which I do) where the “relaxed
dress code” originated, and believe it or not, there are still plenty of business
meetings where a coat and tie is mandatory (obliviously not if you are Steve Jobs). We
do not need to split the Club or diminish it in any way to change the dress code. The
mechanism has been in place for years. SO ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS DO IT!

If I were on the Board of Airstream Inc., and I saw that the Club that we subsidized was
loosing membership at an accelerating rate and whose overall numbers dropped to the point
that instead of contributing to about 18% of product sales (current WBCCI members + buyer
joining WBCCI) to somewhere between the 5% to 10% range I would have to seriously
question the monetary commitment. It may not be eliminated, but would have to be scaled
back drastically. I don’t think a down sized organization is in anyone’s best interest

Yes, Airstream had a record sales year in 2006, but it was approximately -17% less that
the figure you are using

In all that you wrote I see very little mention of the real issue, members, and how to
treat them equitably and how to retain what we already have. You remind me of my
previous employer that when I reached age 50 fired me (just so you don’t misunderstand
again, this not a complaint, only a statement), along with a number of others. Although
the company was small it was the 4th largest in the U.S. for what it did at the time I
was fire. Today it is still in business, but it is not on anyone’s radar for anything.
You sounds like him with your advocating that you would just as soon dump the “old farts”
and have them bugger off. This also sounds a lot like what can best be characterized by
the buzz euphemism “ethnic cleansing,” which to my way of thinking is not how we, the
“old farts” would like to be treated by our fellow members. The bottom line, in my
opinion thee scenarios are abusive and can never be justified.

You spent a lot of time writing, but you do not seem to understand that this Club is
about members (THE PEOPLE) not the things we may have to wear, the type of RV we travel
in or our age. Why not spend your time writing and thinking about the people
(membership) instead of product and other “things?”

You say that YOU are “trying to take the WBCCI into the future and you (me) are trying to
keep it in the past.” This is a very interesting statement that you make. First off I
do not see myself as any kind of a messiah, but only as Region Officer elected by the
membership of my Region. My “job” in this case is keeping them informed about what is
going on and to provide them with the best information that I can and look out for their
best interests. I was a member of the motorhome study committee and I have personally
spoken with the parties that had the facts and information that I need to do my “job.” I
am one of a team of elected Officers, most of whom recognize and take very seriously the
problem that WBCCI now faces, that are putting forth the effort to try and avoid a
catastrophe involving the membership. It appears you are saying that you and only you
have the correct information not only the Class-A motorhome issue, but on what the
overall philosophy the Club needs to adopt. You do not appear to give much credence to
the ideas and knowledge that the elected IBT members, plus all of the other Region
Officers, bring to the table on this issue, even though we have been actively involved
with putting together a positive solution and have a very considerable amount of history
regarding this issue. Is the solution perfect? No, we do not live in a perfect
universe. As I previously wrote, if we “fiddled while Rome burned,” the hue and cry
would be even greater in the next 3 to 5 years.

Again, I am not sure what you mean when you write “ I am trying to take the WBCCI into
the future?” My understanding is that you are currently a Unit Officer. Does this mean
that you are attempting to build some form of constituency, both inside and outside your
Region, because you intend to run for the Region 2nd VP spot in 2009 or is it something
more than that? This issue should not revolve one person or a select group of persons
and their personal wants, likes or dislikes. This is about those members that own a
motorized product that they can no longer replace with a like kind RV and will therefore
be forced out of the WBCCI.

You then go on to write about nothing but the past that you want to return the Club to
and I quote: “If we as an “Airstream” only club use the romance of travel that the WBCCI
instilled in so many people during the 50’s 60’s and 70’s with the needs of
“baby-boomers” wanting to relive that same romance but this time driving the car instead
of sitting in the back seat, this club will once again be the club that it once was in
the past. I just hope in the end that you and others do not take away from us the very
club that you have enjoyed for 52+ years.” So, is this really trying to take the Club
forward or is it a step back in time to try and return Club to its past glory years?
And where do you get from what I previously wrote that I advocated holding on to the
past? Holding onto the past is NOT expanding our horizons by not waking up to the fact
that if the CLUB does not pass this innovative motion to allow another Thor product (Four
Winds) into our Club, we will exacerbate our membership losses to the point that they
will destroy the Club, as we know it! You appear to be the one advocating trying to hold
on for dear life to the “impossible dream” of the return of Airstream’s glory days. It
is time to move forward with innovative ways to increase WBCCI membership, not retreat
into nostalgia. I have written this before, but here it is again: it is about the
members, not product, BECAUSE WITHOUT MEMBERSHIP THERE WILL NOT BE ANY WBCCI.

Those that vote against allowing Class-A motorhome owners to remain full members will be
responsible for destroying the Club, as we know it today and that appears to be your
intent as your quote wants to turn the clock backward to the glory years. Some who get
older sadly end up living in the past, as a result of a mini stroke or Alzheimer’s. I do
not recommend that the Club go there. You are correct to call attention to the new
models that Airstream has been producing. They are sleek and ultra modern, they are
looking to the future with change, which is what WBCCI also needs to do, not moon about
the past glory years, but to expand our thinking and tolerance and become a vibrant Club
again with lots and lots of members of all ages.

Yes, Paul, I do want to see this Club grow and prosper and I do deeply care a great deal
about the people that make up the membership of WBCCI. They are what is very important
to me. Sorry, I was really determined to try and keep this short, but it is too
important an issue to short change. Denial will neither make this issue go away, nor
will it alter the fact that it does really exist. The only way to solve the issue is to
face it in a positive manner, by taking care of the membership that we already have, in a
positive way, so that they can help recruit additional members. Also, if there is anyone
else out there that has something positive to say about the passage of the Class-A
motorhome membership issue please feel free to share your thoughts. I am more that
willing to share the wealth.


PS: Art & Carol, I have read your response and have decided that your comments say more
than I ever could on why the Class-A motorhome motion needs to be approved by the
membership. I stand by initial comments forwarded to you. If you are serious about
finding out where my facts and figures come from then go to one of the sources that you
cite, which is the April issue of the Blue Beret and read the article entitled “It’s All
About Members, Our Friends!”

This may be posted anywhere you like, as long as it is posted in total and unedited.



Jim Elmlinger, wbcci #3296
Region XII President '05-'07

Moderator note: I have removed personal contact (phone, address etc.) info from this message.

[JimGolden]

This Elmlinger guy is really talking me out of ever joining WBCCI.

If I had a Corvette and then sold it and bought a Ferrari, I wouldn't complain that I could no longer be in the Corvette club. I'd join the Ferrari club.

I'm 37. Not a spring chicken, but not super old. As to why younger people aren't joining....it has nothing to do with commitment fear. I do all kinds of stuff for my EAA chapter and I'm probably 25 years younger than the average age. I echo the sentiments of many others on these boards: I want to have fun. Fun to me is not wearing a monkey suit with a goofy hat and being told what to eat, what to drink, what flags to fly while marching in some parade. Camping is supposed to be fun. Young members are turned off by the formality. It is the antithesis of relaxation. It is not that Gen-X has the attention span of a circus monkey, it's that we're told what to do; we don't want that on the weekends.

My grand dad was in WWII. He's disenchanted with WBCCI and he's been a member for decades. He says its no fun. So, I don't think this is a "greatest generation" vs. "generation x" thing at all.

To me it's simple: If Airstream built it, it's in the club. If Airstream didn't build it, it's not.

[wheel interested]

Jim Emlinger's letter has come as a grave disappointment. When you see someone like Paul try to get communication flowing and extend his hand (and man do they NEED help) it is discouraging to see officers continue to think of themselves and only defend their own position rather than work towards understanding and truly responding on behalf of the club and it's members and crafting compomises and good faith actions.

[myboyburt]

Quote from Jim Elmlinger latest post:

I think it is more likely people are not joining because they do not want
to make a commitment, which seems to be one of the themes of our societies current philosophy.

End quote.

I respectfully disagree. The New England Unit of the WBCCI is attracting young Airstream owners because we are all about "Fun, Fellowship and Adventure". We love Airstreams and having fun! The NEU's active membership is at about 60%, 85% which are young(er) members. By active we mean the member attends two or more events a year. We currently have over 100 regular members in our unit.

Don't want to make a commitment? Owning an Airstream IS a commitment. If you purchase vintage you must restore and improve. If new you must pay $$$$ to purchase and maintain. Making a commitment isn't the problem, it's what folks perceive about our club (and which is reality in IBT and some Regions) that is the problem.

None of our newbies (that I know of) are concerned that our older members enjoy the coats and berets, maybe it's because many of our long term members are forward thinking and not so set on enforcing the "rules".

The Four Winds MH proposal if passed will be the death of our club as we know it. It would be a real shame for those of us who are just beginning to enjoy the WBCCI.


Michelle Plunkett
WBCCI # 7032
New England Unit - Membership Chairperson

[dufferin]

Again Jim Emlinger stated that the Class A will save the club membership.

Again TELL ME WHY CURRENT AND NEXT MH OWNERS WOULD JOIN THE CLUB MORE THAN CURRENT AND NEXT AS TT OWNERS...

If he can give me a real good motivate answer to that I may change my mind.

[Coloradobus]

With all the controversy this has caused, failing or passing, this motion has and will be detrimental to club membership.
My parents, formerly WBCCI #11697 were in the club. Much to my father's objection, my mom wanted to join the club. We had Airstreams when I was a kid even before my parents joined the Club. Dad didn't want to be part of a "politicking organization" When I bought my first Airstream and joined the Club in 1982, he acquiesced.
Over the weekend, I talked with my Mother, and told her of this bally-hoo about constitutional changes wanting to be made for Four Wind Coach inclusion in the WBCCI. As a person in her 80's, she said this is "dumb." The primary reason she wanted to join WBCCI during their trailering years, because it was for AIRSTREAMS ONLY. Reviewing a recent "Blue Beret" she said it needs updating. She said it looked like an AARP magazine.
She pulled out an old Blue Beret from August 1985, that had a cover photo of the Lake Placid International, "Olympic Village Adventure", 3,965 Airstream attending. Wow. Wish we had that attendence now.

[tincantom]

"This motion came out of a special committee created by the
International President to meet an emergency situation brought on by
Corporate Airstream’s announcement of their getting out of the Class-
A motorhome business. We, the WBCCI membership, had no warning that
Airstream Corp. was going to cease production of the Class-A
motorhomes."

I'd really be interested to know what this special committee did other than go on a shopping trip? Could Mr. Emlinger elighten us on any research, surveys of members, etc. that this SPECIAL COMMITTEE did?

Was Airstream's decision so unexpected? What was the basis of the 2004 membership survey. Did someone have an inkling this was going to occur? Someone was apparently talking to someone (no one wants to own up to who approached who first) about badging SOB Thor products as "Airstream Editions" before the general membership was made aware in any official manner. Rumor has it though that IP Don Shafer made some references to this sort of thing to some gathering at one of the Regions.

"Today the Club is built
really by word of mouth and disenfranchising 20% of the membership
will not help our main form of gaining new members."

Why is this? Why aren't we spending some of our wealth on recruiting new members? Instead we are spending it on subsidizing a lot of travel for the privileged few.

[bryanl]

I'd really be interested to know what this special committee did ... Was Airstream's decision so unexpected? What was the basis of the 2004 membership survey. Did someone have an inkling this was going to occur? ... Why is this? Why aren't we spending some of our wealth on recruiting new members?

It seems that someone spending more than $100k for a motorhome could get a BaseCamp for a toad to maintain membership qualifications in the WBCCI as is ... ;-)

But the questions here hit deeper issues.

1) when people get surprised, either by an "emergency" or by finding out something late, it is an indication of a lack of preparedness and communication. These are good measures of leadership and management (or the lack thereof).

2) not having a solid provenance for measures, such as a membership survey, readily available to all is fuel for the fires of cynicism and conspiracy theorists. Those two phenomena destroy associations.

3) questions about budget planning also indicate a need for better communications about values and priorities and methods. - I think quite a bit has been spend on recruitment gimmicks, but that is another discussion.

These are reflected in those who think it is OK to personnally attack those who do not share their views, the suspicions about corruption and conspiracy, those who cannot separate opinions and ideas from the people who express them, - and that kind of behavior is another issue that needs to be addressed IMHO as they are also cancers in an organization.

I mean, the choice is not appealing.

As savewally.org has demonstrated, winning one argument is just not enough for some folks. It seems they live for arguing. Win an argument means finding another, loosing an argument means fanning the flames. This is politicing - not "outdoor fraternization."

One the other hand, we have an organization where many members and leaders have a concept of identity that seems odd to me. They represent the contrast to the activists in that they go for the appeasement and the 'go along to get along' meme that seems just as far off center in the other direction.

Neither of these extremes has a good history of solving problems. Rather, the history of activisism and its opposite tend to aggravate problems. They are conflict generating and not conflict resolving.

The MoHo issue was first decided upon back in the fifties. Its re-appearance is only a reminder that all of us must maintain vigilance to maintain and manage what we value. It is an illustration of how letting things slide for years will eventually catch up to the association and create one big mess that might have been easier handled as several smaller ones.

The MoHo issue will get its vote. But we now have an informal 'committee' that will not accept the vote and probably remain as acerbic as they have demonstrated already about not getting their way. That creates the dilemma of what is more important for immediate attention. What is going to do more harm to the club? Tolerating non Airstream brand RV's or tolerating acerbic and intolerant behavior? - the sad part is that this decision obfuscates the very real need for improving management and leadership, cleaning up the membership and voting ambiguities, finding focus and identity, and improving communications. Those kinds of improvements will not be made with the kind of rhetoric and manner of 'debate' that have become the hallmark of this particular venue.

[WALLY 54]

The best way to navigate through the fog and mis-information is to get the facts. The correct facts as they pertain to this moho motion by the IBT, both pro and con, are at SaveWally.org

(my suspicion that the IBT's MO (method of operation) is that, if the membership is confused enough about things, they're more inclined to go/vote with the flow.)



GO WITH THIS FLOW...


WDCU Unit: Unanimous NO VOTE on moho motion in a show of hands at the April business meeting. Thoughts are to instruct Delegate to VOTE NO to the current motion and to VOTE NO on any motion or ammendment from the floor at the Delegates meeting in Perry at the International. (reported on SaveWally.org)

12.49% membership of moho owners has been represented by IBT as "20%-" and "1/3 of the membership."

Airstream announced in 2005 that they were discontinuing moho production, the IBT waits until Dec. 2006 to act on the problem. (but in 2004 survey the question was asked about Four Winds moho's.)

No prospectus has been issued with regards to how many of WBCCI's existing members will buy new or convert to 'new' moho status within the next 5 years.

"Younger people aren't interested in becoming members or volunteering for anything in the WBCCI." (this info is based on what, exactly?)

Growing memberships in progressive units are fluffed off as anomolies and discounted by those thoughts of "younger people are not interested in volunteering."

New ideas are being brought to the table of ideas to increase membership in the WBCCI. They are squelched and disregarded and not given serious consideration by the IBT.

[bryanl]

The best way to navigate through the fog and mis-information is to get the facts.

If it were just so simple!

It is just this underestimating the scope and nature of issues that I think is most problematic. Most of what we are dealing with in these issues has very litte to do with fact and very much to do with intangibles, especially emotional factors. What one chooses to have as a group identity is not based on strictly factual matters, for instance.

Facts tend to be perceptions and these are often presented with an incorrect sense of the accuracy and precision used in the measurement. That leads to misinformation, even if supposedly based on "facts." That is how propaganda can be so effective.

The correct facts as they pertain to this moho motion by the IBT, both pro and con, are at SaveWally.org

I don't think so. The intolerance of the primary participants there to ideas and concepts that do not fit their existing paradigm is well established.

And, as illustrated above, 'facts' can obfuscate and misdirect. The issues cited, the facts listed, may or may not have a connection to the MoHo issue - not to mention presumptions often listed as if they were fact.

As for new ideas being squashed, blaming it on someone else is ever so much easier than looking at one's own actions. As can readily be seen, WBCCI has been quite tolerant of new ideas and new ways of doing things. It is seeking change and it is that change that is being so hotly contested with unfounded allegation and accusation and other uncivil discourse.

What is being objected to, in fact, is just this tolerance. The plain fact is that the organization (savewally.org) that was formed to prevent a name change has now morphed to prevent yet additional organizational change. And, in protesting this change its participants are accusing the WBCCI of being anti-change. ("new ideas ..are squelched..")

Rather than being responsible in treating this as a matter of difference of opinion, it is being treated as a personal quality matter as in the judgment. For example "not given serious consideration by the IBT" is presented as fact wherein it is really an opinion that is not well founded and flies in the face of much readily available evidence.

It is one thing to not understand, to be ignorant. It is entirely another to reject others because of their ideas and efforts and to impugn them because you don't agree with them. The first, ignorance, is at least civil and has the potential for growth. The latter, intolerance and bigotry, only leads towards division and discord.

[wheel interested]

The intolerance of the primary participants there (Save Wally) to ideas and concepts that do not fit their existing paradigm is well established.

Hear hear! Exactly why I am proud to support Save Wally. Save the name and save the brand identity. Long live their paradigm. Long may she proper. A known quantity available, yea verily.

[tincantom]

[quote=Leipper]It seems that someone spending more than $100k for a motorhome could get a BaseCamp for a toad to maintain membership qualifications in the WBCCI as is ... ;-)[quote =Leipper]

That's a great idea, though not original. I think I read this on save wally before. Anyway, this would be better than allowing SOBs in WBCCI.

Tom

[Buttercup]

Another fine Leipper Lecture. I can see your apparent animosity growing towards SaveWally and its participants with each post. I am equally impressed at your ability to further cloud and obfuscate an issue.

The intolerance of the primary participants there to ideas and concepts that do not fit their existing paradigm is well established.

How would you know? We have asked you for ideas but you only offer passive references as to how SaveWally participants are wrong. You yourself have never committed to saying if you are for or against the MOHO issue let alone to offer a suggestion how the MOHO issue could be solved by alternate means. You wave the constitution and bylaws in the air and in the end have nothing substantive to say about the topic. I know you hate SaveWally but it wasn't so long ago that you supported the ideas we had. When we were members of your unit you let us talk about the name change issue - in fact asked us to give a presentation. You are not the same person I knew when we first joined the SNU.

What is being objected to, in fact, is just this tolerance. The plain fact is that the organization (savewally.org) that was formed to prevent a name change has now morphed to prevent yet additional organizational change. And, in protesting this change its participants are accusing the WBCCI of being anti-change. ("new ideas ..are squelched..")

What??? What rock did you just crawl out from under. What we are against is ending the single brand identity of the WBCCI, - remember "The Airstream Club". We as a collective have been working to present REASONABLE changes to the club to increase membership such as implementation of improved web infrastructure for units (a few of our members are working on that), improved distribution of collateral to the membership at a cost savings (such as sending newsletters and membership guides in PDF form, saving the club a substantial amount), improving the identity packages for units to improve awareness in local community, etc... The article in the upcoming issue of Reno Magazine (with a beautiful picture of Buttercup I might add) was one that Kimber suggested 3 years ago when she designed and was art directing that publication. The WBCCI gets a big mention in that article. I myself gave an extended interview about the WBCCI and its history for that story. That is a sample of the things people like us are doing to further the WBCCI and its history. What have you done lately, Bryan? Oh I know - you take whacks at SaveWally and our supporters.

SaveWally did start with the name change issue, that is true. But we are now faced with an ill-conceived and poorly researched idea to allow another brand of trailer into the club and you can bet for sure that we are against that. How do you feel about it, Bryan? I can only get the impression that you thoroughly support this proposal because you really give me the impression (although you have never come right out and said it) that you are a supporter. And every time I call you out on it, you still never come right out and say if you are for or against. You just whack SaveWally.

Rather than being responsible in treating this as a matter of difference of opinion, it is being treated as a personal quality matter as in the judgment.

This is far from a matter of a difference of opinion - this is a matter of the end of a club with 52+ years of history. How can you trivialize this issue like that? especially being a 4th generation WBCCIer. Sorry, but it is no longer your grandfathers club.

It is one thing to not understand, to be ignorant. It is entirely another to reject others because of their ideas and efforts and to impugn them because you don't agree with them.

i think this mat be the case of the pot calling the kettle black.
I believe that SaveWally supporters are far from ignorant. in fact I will go so far as to say that I believe that SaveWally supporters are the best educated in the MOHO issue. I don't care if you dislike the material we put out. Our supporters have taken the time to read not only our material but the information published on WBCCI's own web site, in unit and regional newsletters and in these forums to name a few and they like so many others come to the same conclusion, the MOHO issue is bad for the club. You on the other hand seem to only take whacks at SaveWally. In this issue I am dumbfounded to find where you have offered one single constructive thought towards the issue at hand. You only swing away at SaveWally.

You are so focused on SaveWally as being a harbinger of misinformation but never mention your thoughts at the misinformation coming out from regional and even IBT leadership. Why do you not point out things like the IBT inflating motorhome owner numbers in the club from the actual 12.5% based on current membership levels to 20% mentioned by Jim Elmlinger and even 30% as mentioned in one regional newsletter as not based in fact? Why do you say that SaveWally operates on emotions and not on fact when the IBT states that we will lose 860 members if we don't pass this proposal - there is no proof that this will even happen, no marketing survey to show this as fact? In fact, the IBTs entire presentation on this issue is based on emotion and blindly ignores facts. They took the survey in 2004 and ignored the memberships wished to not bring in other THOR brands. They state that this was so sudden but had over a year and a half to ponder the problem (if one actually exists) and could only come up with this solution? No - you will not show these facts Bryan. My guess is still that you are on the fast ladder up the WBCCI chain and want to make a good impression for the leadership above you that you are one of the team. I like our unit's president better - not to afraid to take a stand on an issue that is obviously so bad for the club.

Bryan, you apparently have an axe to grind on SaveWally - but you should pull the twig from your own eye. Maybe then you also will see that this issue is not about SaveWally, but protecting the history and heritage of the WBCCI.