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Old 12-14-2006, 01:09 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Communicator
Below is a response from Jim Franklin, Immediate Past International WBCCI President:

12-10-2006 The amounts listed in the bylaws are correct. The .40 cents per mile you are mentioning comes out of the amounts listed. Only an officer's travel expenses, rally fees and other expenses all come out of that amount. Any money not spent rolls over to the next year's budget. All expenses are justified with receipts. The money listed in the bylaws does not begin to cover the actual amounts officers spend out of their own pocket for maintenance and upkeep on their equipment and other requirements associated with meeting the demands of being a club officer. …

Thanks and Merry Christmas, Jim Franklin
As I understand this, all reimbursements come out of the $11,500 budgeted for the International President.



Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbird312
...
In the last 2 years, I put $2600 worth of tires on it. Every 25,000 miles, it requires an M3 maintenance, that is normally around $1500 each. The depreciation on my 2000 model is probably $20,000 a year the first 5 or 6 years. …
This is only the start of the expenses involved with operating the rig. I’m sure there are other items of wear on the internal “creature comfort” mechanical systems (A/C, furnace, generator, electrical, sewage system, etc.).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
If I am way off here, sorry. Show me and I'll gladly take my caining....

If I'm not that far off base...perfect example of your dues monies at work....

There is some significant fat...and when I read this:

"Depreciation, fuel at $3.00 plus a gallon, upkeek costs certainly are not covered by the recently raised rate of .40 cents."

If I plug in $3.00 a gallon into my equation, I still come up with $1.00 left over at the current .40/mile which unless my math is off, which it could be is $5000 after fuel costs after a 50,000 mile trip. So, why the increase if it all goes back if not spent and detailed receipts are needed?

My point?

It just seems like an open ended check. What I mean by this is that there is no incentive for these "volunteers" not to travel the country on the member's dime. Heck if I could get someone to pay for my gas, I'd volunteer to see the country and meet fellow Airstreamers too!

I'm sure I've left something important here out that would effect these numbers, but the numbers as they are really aren't as important at being paid back for 50,000 miles as a volunteer.
Now with all the expenses that have been pointed out that are not covered by your equation, you are only considering the fuel expenses so there are considerable out-of-pocket expenses that aren’t included in the sum you come up with. While you come up with ($50,000X$.40=$20,000) a total of $20,000. In addition to the previously pointed our wear-and-tear you aren’t including, there are over the road incidentals like meals on the road, camping fees while traveling, camping fees while at the IBT Meetings, etc. None of this is included in your total of $20,000. What’s MY point? If I understand the thread on the WBCCI Forum, the $11,500 is the CAP on expenses that will be reimbursed to the International President. Even with just the ACTUAL fuel cost you calculated of $13,250 the ACTUAL fuel cost would exceed the cap by $1,750! Not to mention all of the wear and tear on the rig and other travel related expenses. The way I figure, the International President is probably in the hole several thousand $$ to be the International President.

Now I am new to the WBCCI so I may not understand the thread I read. Maybe the travel related expenses are in addition to the $11,500 but the International President is still at least $2,000 in the red with out-of-pocket expenses for fuel. So I am not likely to complain that he/she gets preferred parking or seating at the meetings and entertainment or even if his/her piece of chicken is better than mine. I’d say he/she probably feels that it’s one expensive piece of chicken!
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Old 12-18-2006, 01:03 PM   #30
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With the exception of the International, that is not covered, are there designated rallies and travel for reembursement, or are any and all rallies and travel eligable at their choosing? Do many travel by common carrier, rent cars and stay in hotels?

It is my understanding that officers are assigned to be representatives at certain events. The reimbursement procedures are outlined in the Blue Book which can be found at www.wbcci.org. Sorry for referring you but I think there is too much to quote here.
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Old 12-18-2006, 03:36 PM   #31
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I think you missed my point. My point was that this is a pleasure and volunteer thing. There should not be any reimbursement for wear and tear and really since most would go to Internationals anyway, there should not be a big reimbursment for fuel. I'm not saying be a grinch, but I am saying between some of the perks there appears to be some fat. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, but a lot of folks that are not talking about it, are voting via their membership renewals, which continue to decline. Soley because of this one issue? Prob not, but it's this issue, along with the issue of priority seating, among a wide range of issues that fuels these membership declines nationally and in some cases, locally.
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Old 12-18-2006, 04:24 PM   #32
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I understand where you are coming from to a point, but all memberships are voluntary and for pleasure. I have been a member of a professional organization for a number of years. The board members and officers got their annual planning meeting trips reimbursed. They also got other perks, I'm sure, that I'm not aware of. Were these organizations for pleasure? Not exactly. But they were voluntary and serving on the Board and as an officer required a lot of one's time and were tough to get volunteers to fill. Perhaps you have been a member of organization where you had to fight to get these positions and got nothing in return for serving your fellow members. I'd love to be a member of such an organization.
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Old 12-18-2006, 05:13 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate
Perhaps you have been a member of organization where you had to fight to get these positions and got nothing in return for serving your fellow members. I'd love to be a member of such an organization.
I did and I had no expectation nor did I even elude that there would be an issue for wear and tear, special parking, priority seating, etc. The events I ran simply were for the good of the group. I stepped up because it was something I was going to participate in anyway and my way of giving something back. Any expectation to get money back for fuel, to me, since I was already going to go, seems somewhat selfish, if in fact I was truely volunteering in every sense of the word.

As I see it here, I'm not a member of WBCCI. Haven't been since 2003. What I think or observe really doesn't make a difference. These are simply my observations I offer at face value. Some will disagree and I respect that. If a group was doing what I wanted from it, I'd be happy too and most likely throw a few flames my way for pointing out some of the issues with the .org

I can only again say that the national membership numbers (and some local numbers) do not reflect a growing group, happy with the direction things are going. To me this whole topic of perks and reimbursements is but one hot topic in a broader, more complicated set of events and issues.

In the end, membership numbers will dictate in the future if these actions and others were the right move to grow membership and inclusiveness-- or not. My initial take is that they aren't, and are only further putting strain on retention and gaining new members.
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Old 12-18-2006, 05:40 PM   #34
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No one wants to be an officer!

If you will notice, the Officers of many of the clubs keep recycling the same folks over and over. Why is that would one ask. Well, let me give you my view.
I have been asked three times to be an Officer of our club. I have also been asked to serve in the Region. I decline. I can't afford the time or the money to attend all of the Rallys that I would need to be at. Time is money for most of us and just the time is costly in terms of lost income. Even if I could afford that, it costs a lot of money to run accross the country to attend these things. I can't do it.

The other reason is that there are many who will heap critizism on those who serve, while doing nothing constructive themselves. My Wife and I have hosted several events and gotten very little help. We now refuse! We are gradually dropping out of the club and its activities. No new members are joining and stepping up. They can see what happens when someone does volunteer and wisely avoid the trap.

I still belong to the WBCCI and I provide web sites for all of Regions 7s clubs at my own expense. I do that because no one else will take it over. If I quit, their web sites die.

You would never entice me to take an Officers position even if I was re-imbursed for all my travel and expense. I would not be able to put up with the abuse that is heaped upon the Officers of the club by people who do nothing but complain.

You wonder why the club is dying, think about it.
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Old 12-18-2006, 06:08 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
I did and I had no expectation nor did I even elude that there would be an issue for wear and tear, special parking, priority seating, etc. The events I ran simply were for the good of the group. I stepped up because it was something I was going to participate in anyway and my way of giving something back. Any expectation to get money back for fuel, to me, since I was already going to go, seems somewhat selfish, if in fact I was truely volunteering in every sense of the word.
This is true for most, however one thing I don't think has been mentioned, (I didn't re-read every post in this thread today), is that as an officer oftentimes "has to go" to rallies or events that they wouldn't ordinarily go to. Like Officer Installations, major rallies or every single planned rally in a year for their Unit/Region and International. Otherwise, how would they get to know their members?

I know I easily tripled my rally-time when I was Unit President. Before and since "my year" the "norm" was to go out 30 or so nights - 1/2 rallies & 1/2 pleasure. The year I was President I went to every Unit function, the Region 11 Rally, a National Special Events Rally in our area and International for a total of over 70 nights between May-October. I didn't have time to add on any personal trips...which was huge, I can't imagine what it would be on a Regional or International level.

Mind you, I'm not complaining, I knew what I was getting into - it's just a fact...if I wasn't President I wouldn't have been on the road as much as I was. Not to mention, the fact that I am still working and went "part-time" for that year...the financial sacrafice was huge. (Make 1/2 as much & spend twice as much...hmmm, how does that work?)

Even as an Unit President you've most likely been a Trustee, then 2nd VP & 1st VP then Past President (which is also a board position) so the commitment is not just for one year. Keep in mind every Regional or International Officer has done this for several years to get to the position they are now at. So in my mind, the meager stippend or reimbursment they get is well deserved.

Shari
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Old 12-18-2006, 07:38 PM   #36
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You all bring up some really good points...and I admire you all fighting the good fight. And I appreciate Shari's honesty in her post. She is very lucky as are a select few to have what I would consider a heathy, happy unit.

Coop when you say:

"My Wife and I have hosted several events and gotten very little help. We now refuse! We are gradually dropping out of the club and its activities"

I hear ya. A mod I know and respect very much here just walked away from WBCCI. When you have very level headed folks like him walking away, you have to ask yourself, why. I'm not saying or even trying to elude that the perks are why, cause they aren't the full reason, but some of the things I'm sure don't help. You are right though. It's the folks that have the time that keep the positions and in some cases is the reason some things stay so static and resist any change.
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Old 12-19-2006, 08:15 AM   #37
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Don't mind the perks

I will add to what Shari and Cooperhawk posted by saying sometime you can't win. As a WBCCI officer, you try to keep the members of your unit happy(sometimes it can be tough), you try to keep to the rules of te WBCCI and add to that, trying to defend, promote and encourage people to join the WBCCI when all they hear most of the time is negative stuff at places like the airstreamforums.com. I have no problem with Barry the Region 2 Prez getting a few bucks for running around to all the rallies, taking up most of his time durning the year and putting Lord only knows how much wear and tear on his rig. I've only been doing it about five years, I can't come close to understanding what it would be like at the higher levels and doing it 20+ years. It's easy to say they should not get these perks when you don't do half what they do for the club or even being a member of the club. Try walking in their shoes and see how it feels and get back to me. My guess, you'll have a different view. I say, give them the cash!!
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Old 12-19-2006, 09:25 AM   #38
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Silvertwinkie, I can understand that the perks that the officers in the WBCCI receive were just one example of what I'm sure were many reasons you decided to drop your membership. That's fine. If I were unhappy with this or any other organization, I would drop out too and no one should blame you. It would have been helpful to the rest of us that have posted to this thread to have realized that you were once a member and no longer are.

Cooperhawk, I certainly can understand your frustration as well, but I realize that there are a lot of folks that are natural born leaders and a lot that are natural born followers and then there are a lot of natural born leaders that were leaders all of their careers and once they retire from their leadership roles at work, they don't want to be leaders in their retirement. I can imagine that a lot of the membership of any organization that has such a broad cross section of the retired community as is prevalent in the WBCCI would have a large prercentage of its members that just want to be members and enjoy the benefits of membership without having to "work at it".

I am still in my career. In fact I have about 20 more years to go. I have been requested several times to be a Scout leader and I decline each time. I am more than willing to participate with my two sons as much as anyone else, but I am a manager all day, everyday and I just don't want to do it in my off time. I am willing to leave it up to someone else. Call me lazy if you will, but I just want to be a follower when work is done and I think that this may be the case with the overwhelming majority of the members of the WBCCI. As a result, most would probably tell you, truth be known, that they wouldn't take on the responsibilities and expenses if you paid them. Apparently a few will and it is left up to this system to make the operation work from an organizational and management perspective. Personally, I have no problem with the current system if it makes the Club work as long as the WBCCI stays in the black.
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Old 12-19-2006, 10:33 AM   #39
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Maybe something new!

You know I would still like to spend time with other Airstreamers. The problem is that the present club is going away and most members don't realize it yet. Each year there are fewer members. When any little change is suggested there are very vocal people who resist vehemently, and as a result, no changes will ever be made. Maybe it's time to start a new club.

I used to rebel at any group that one had to be invited to join and then approved by the members, but i'm changing my mind. I would enjoy belonging to a group without all the rhetoric. I'm frankly weary of it all. Anyone have any ideas?
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Old 12-19-2006, 11:03 AM   #40
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Without reimbursement for manatory attendance at functions you would be limited to folks who could afford to be an officer .That alone could eliminate a lot of good potential . In private clubs very rarely does the compensation cover the true expense of the position , the coorperate world is an other matter all together .
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Old 12-19-2006, 12:47 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate
Silvertwinkie, I can understand that the perks that the officers in the WBCCI receive were just one example of what I'm sure were many reasons you decided to drop your membership. That's fine. If I were unhappy with this or any other organization, I would drop out too and no one should blame you. It would have been helpful to the rest of us that have posted to this thread to have realized that you were once a member and no longer are.
To be honest, it never really made as far as the perks thing. I read about the perks thing first here, nearly 3 years from leaving.

I'm with you 110%. Last thing I want to do when in front of networks and computers is solve everyone's technology problems when I'm home unwinding.

In the end, WBCCI will do whatever WBCCI wants to do and are very welcome to....just not with me and a growing number of departing folks flipping the dime for it.
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Old 12-19-2006, 02:16 PM   #42
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Quote from ticki2:::Without reimbursement for manatory attendance at functions you would be limited to folks who could afford to be an officer .That alone could eliminate a lot of good potential

It seems to me there needs to be changes that eliminates "Class" distinction. When it comes to filling offices, "The Poor Need Not Apply". As it stands those in office have no reason to make changes that would allow "Birds Of Another Feather" to become officers. ----pieman
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