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Old 01-09-2007, 04:17 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate
Gunner, I'm not saying that every officer in the WBCCI is behind this or is self serving, but I do think those that are behind it just so they will have the option of trading for new in a couple of years should re-examine their motives and whether they are doing it for the good of the WBCCI or not. I really don't think they should be involved since there doesn't seem to be anything in it for the club.

There was a post several months ago that said the WBCCI quit giving away the first year's membership with the purchase of your first Airstream because they were only seeing a 15% return on the program. Well, that is a pretty good return and I would venture to guess would return more paying members than these counterfeit motor homes will bring in every year.

It's kind of like the WBCCI doesn't really have a dog in this fight so why would the officers be so interested in getting Thor to put a badge on the Mandalay? BTW, I have done a little research on the Mandalay and it seems they are nice, but really not as much of a luxury coach like I was expecting. I guess I was expecting something along the lines of Monaco.
Well said.
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Old 01-09-2007, 04:27 PM   #128
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Well, I guess my main question is do we actually know the officers have asked Thor to do this, or is this just a suspicion. Also, I don't believe there are enough Officers willing buy motorhomes to sway anyone to spend any money on rebadging. There just aren't the numbers it would take. If Thor is thinking of doing this, they have to have better reasons than just a few WBCCI Officers.
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Old 01-09-2007, 04:32 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate
BTW, I have done a little research on the Mandalay and it seems they are nice, but really not as much of a luxury coach like I was expecting. I guess I was expecting something along the lines of Monaco.
We are in the midst of setting up the St. Louis RV show here at the convention center so I had a chance to go down to the exhibition hall and talk to the sales manager of the local Airstream dealer. He was not aware of the Mandalay issue but he was familiar with the motor homes and said that they were considering them as an add on to their current product offerings. He also noted that Mandalay had some nice touches that he wished Airstream had done on their motor homes. I'm not sure what those were but his reaction to the product line was good.

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Old 01-09-2007, 06:36 PM   #130
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Here I am again. It's interesting to listen (read) opinions, and all the what ifs, the blaming of some for doing such and such, all the while we are suppositioning that something is in the works at Airstream, and unless I've missed it, that's all there is- just someone who suspects something is happening?
I have a trailer and a Class A as well. Now, if Airstream , which is wholly owned by Thor, were to offer an Airstream trailer that was assembled by another plant in the Thor family that looked like an Airstream, was badged as an Airstream, and maybe was of better quality than the present ones, would I raise sand about it. Truley, I do not know. HOWEVERI do think I would be very interested in a Class A that was assembled in a diffferent plant in the Thor family, that looked like my present Airstream, was badged as an Airstream, and maybe was of better quality than my present one!
Since Airstream Jackson Center is tight on production capability, and since Thor is owned by stockholders, and since they want to profit from their investments, it makes very good business sense (cents?) to utilize the already present manufacturing capabilities in the Thor company to satisfy what the market might want, whether they are awful, old, present WBCCI officers or are the up and coming, higher than average wage earners (thats you Minnie) or retired early full-timers in their 50's (Steve and Jane) who want a quality Class A deisel. My 390XL came from the factory with a too-small front axle and tires. Airsteam did a recall, putting on larger tires, but refusing to change the axle. Appeals to Dickie did not produce positive results. Freightliner did not have a good opinion of the route Airstream took either. My coach runs right at 97% of the front axle capacity. That's not what I would say is a quality built coach. Maybe Mandalay does better with things like this?
I just think you guys are really beating each other up, not looking at anything other than if a WBCCI officer would like to continue buying Class A's while staying in the club. Dang, that's the reason I am driving what I am now, rather than another brand....because I want to stay in and enjoy the club.
Now my thoughts of the club are slightly different than others, as I use it as an avenue to tour USA and Canada with others who I know are there for the love of travel as well. I only went to one of my local unit's rallies last year, (because I was 2500 miles away ) so I'm trying to understand this discussion from both sides. I guess I approve of the thoughts of a rebadged (is that a word?) unit, but for a completely different reason than anyone else has described.
By the way, if any of you have pull with anyone at Jackson Center, I still would like to have a true 12,000 lb front axle, instead of the bastard 11,000 lb I'm stuck with now. I call it a bastard one as Freightliner does not offer a 11,000 lb one.
In reality, it is a rebadged 10,000lb one!
I'll stop here, I don't have a conclusion!
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Old 01-09-2007, 07:51 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate
Perhaps it is discrimination on some scale, but I don't think it is anymore a form of discrimination than a Corvette Club or Harley Club or any other brand specific club. I don't think you can lump it into the same kind of discrimination as a country club that only allows WASPs to join.

As for Airstream being independent, you may be right. I'm not sure, but I do know they are an independent corporation founded in 1936 that is wholly owned by Thor (per the Airstream website). Chevy is a DIVISION of GM. If I am not mistaken, there is a difference.
1.) Corvette Clubs don't spend their time figuring out ways to exclude owners of lower-grade 'vettes. Or other grade 'vettes. If it's a Corvette, they let you in.

2.) There's nothing independent about Airstream. Read Thor's annual report.
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Old 01-09-2007, 08:34 PM   #132
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Sure. Remember the Che-vette??!!
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Old 01-09-2007, 08:52 PM   #133
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The Corvair? The Cordoba? The list is endless...
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Old 01-09-2007, 09:37 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PWRSTRK
1.) Corvette Clubs don't spend their time figuring out ways to exclude owners of lower-grade 'vettes. Or other grade 'vettes. If it's a Corvette, they let you in.

2.) There's nothing independent about Airstream. Read Thor's annual report.
Ahh, but there is the rub..... If that's the case then why all the full about Motorhomes back in the day, Argosy and now Basecamp?

Airstream might not be independent, but it is it's own company, simply owned by a parent company that owns other builders. If you read the Money article about how Wade and Company run Thor, he lets each company build what they want, as long as it sells.

GM also make Impalas, Camaros (at least did) and other cars too, but a Corvette club, though they may appreciate an Impala SS, still ususally won't let an SSer join simply because they have an LT1 engine, even if it was built by a seperate company or segment within a parent company.

One other thing...there are Corvette clubs that are niche clubs...vintage, 80s and 90s, so the fact that one says there aren't some splinter clubs, isn't totally true.
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Old 01-10-2007, 08:43 PM   #135
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I don't have an in with anybody at JC, but a complaint to the NTSB might jog their memory just a little and get you that axle you need.
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Old 01-10-2007, 09:00 PM   #136
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Old 01-10-2007, 09:51 PM   #137
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Fred,
Watch out!!!!
I may be mistaken on the numbers, however, the first 5, before the recall, received a whole new axle assembly, 12000 lb units along with 2 new Michelin tires.
The total done was (I think) 14, of which mine was one. The supplier of the axle agreed that, with the addition of higher rated tires, they would recert the original 10000 lb axle to 11000 lbs. Now, I weigh 200lbs, my wife, at 5'9" about 180. I had the unit weighed with us in our seats, and the front axle had 10700 lbs on it. I did not have a full tank of fuel, I did not have any black or gray water, and a half tank of fresh. We were not loaded heavily.
Now, I had a situation with my front Michelin tires (the ones from the recall) that no Michelin people, 3 dealers and the factory rep could explain. I had to buy two new front tires. I personally think the problem was from an overloaded, underrated front axle. I eve n had it over to Gafney for Freightliner to confirm there was no problem with the chassis. There was not. I've had it maintained there on Freightliners suggested schedule.
Now, I wrote Dicky Reigel a very nice (I thought) letter, prior to the tire occurrance, requesting Airstream provide an adequate axle. He did not refuse in writing, however, he did call me and double talk through a series of reasons why he would not do that. Now that the management at Airstream has changed to one that may not have even the foresight Mr. Reigel had. I give no hope for being satisfied with what their position might be. The fact remains, I own a motorhome that I have way more money in than I could ever hope to get back, since Airstream has stopped production of them. It has a very good running gear, it has the axle in it that Airstream specified, not what Freightliner suggests, and I, being a sucker for the "supposed" Airstream quality, purchased. I will use it, enjoy the club, and forever, be a very dissatisfied Airstream Motorhome owner. I have let it be known to enough people that if anything does ever occur from the front axle components failing, they will regret the day they refused to 'properly' rectify their engineering flaw, because of the bad publicity.
Now that said, I will stop my flame. I normally am a very positive person, you have read my posts, however, Airstream has really done wrong on this. I mean it is wrong on so many levels. And they want, or even expect our loyal purchases.
Be thankful you have the 12000 lb axle.
Oh, last year, actually, at Homecoming 2005, I was one of the folks chosen to go and 'inspec' new Airstreams that had already been released for delivery. Of the 5 units, I found at least a page of quality problems on 4 of them. The Westfalia had absolutely none that I could find. Guess which one they have discontinued? Oh, and they thanked me for the time I took to do it. They even went so far as to exclaim that I had judged the Quality of production, rather than judging the engineering. Gosh, I wish someone had judged the MH before shipping.
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Old 01-11-2007, 09:46 AM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
Ahh, but there is the rub..... If that's the case then why all the full about Motorhomes back in the day, Argosy and now Basecamp?

Airstream might not be independent, but it is it's own company, simply owned by a parent company that owns other builders. If you read the Money article about how Wade and Company run Thor, he lets each company build what they want, as long as it sells.

GM also make Impalas, Camaros (at least did) and other cars too, but a Corvette club, though they may appreciate an Impala SS, still ususally won't let an SSer join simply because they have an LT1 engine, even if it was built by a seperate company or segment within a parent company.

One other thing...there are Corvette clubs that are niche clubs...vintage, 80s and 90s, so the fact that one says there aren't some splinter clubs, isn't totally true.
Thank you!
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Old 01-11-2007, 09:49 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
Airstream might not be independent, but it is it's own company, simply owned by a parent company that owns other builders. If you read the Money article about how Wade and Company run Thor, he lets each company build what they want, as long as it sells.
This is exactly what I meant. Airstream is operated independently as if it was a separate corporation with Thor owning all of the stock.
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Old 01-12-2007, 06:06 PM   #140
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steelbird312
I have a friend with the same unit and year you have and he had his axle and tires replaced by AS. I would still file a complaint with the NHSB. I,ve done that on couple of vehicles I've owned and it did get the manufactures attention.
good luck
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