Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-07-2006, 06:06 PM   #1
Rivet Master
 
yukionna's Avatar
 
Massachusetts
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: 1964 17' Bambi II
Posts: 4,278
Images: 18
Send a message via Yahoo to yukionna
Name change fact sheet

I'm a little confused about what the facts are relating to the upcoming vote on the WBCCI name change issue. There are a few threads on this forum which debate the issue but nothing which clearly outlines the facts of the issue. Is there a way we can organize an effort thru the forum to document this issue in an unbiased fashion? I think a fact sheet would also assist the Units to present this issue at their upcoming Spring business meetings. Any ideas?
__________________

__________________
WBCCI Region One

Attitude is the only difference between ordeal and adventure
yukionna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2006, 06:28 PM   #2
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
hi yukionna

as i posted yesterday a slightly abbreviated 3 page fact/history/rationale sheet is in the march bb...

the complete version was mailed to all unit presidents...
so contact your unit president and ask for a copy...
the wb h/q in j/c might also send you a copy...
but given their budget....
i'd suggest offering to pay for the p/c and postage...

now of course this begs the issue......

who's facts are the facts and who's bias is un biased....

like all history.....
the history of this issue is viewed from many angles...
and written by many pens......
but ultimately agreed upon by a group of liars....

within some of the threads here can be found a few posts (usually by the politically active wb members) that suggest how it started, when/where the early votes occured, how it moved to a committee, what they were asked to do and how the ibt folks voted recently....

i think the summary in the bb is pretty good, yes there are issues (like fake unit votes ) about how each unit processed the info and did the committee overstep it's charge (dropping w/b and including a new logo) but on the whole it's pretty good....and so much better than the wild stuff posted here....and repeated over and over.....which in no way makes it any less wild and speculative.

so get march bb or the unabridged version....
and cut and paste the pith from all of these threads......
come on you can do it......
and i know you won't be biased!!!

cheers
2air'
__________________

__________________
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2006, 12:05 AM   #3
VAC President
 
Buttercup's Avatar
 
1977 27' Overlander
1954 25' Cruiser
1990 34.5' Airstream 345
VC Highlands , Nevada
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,149
Send a message via Skype™ to Buttercup
A line of B.S.

I just LOVE how we were told that this was being done to BOOST membership but now it appears that the IBT, through the Blue Beret, states that "the primary goal was NOT to improve membership" as pointed out under the "Discussion:" section,
"a. Members want the name change for convenience and clear identity. A by-product of the change could be increased membership, but that is not the primary motivation."

Well not all the members did want the name change, just those in "the know". And we were told by Roy Bernd, the Name Change Committee Chair, that these actions were being taken to IMPROVE membership.

So Who is zooming whom?

I might also add that the "fact sheet" is anything but. It is a propaganda sheet produced by those who have made a career of producing the name change for the sake of producing a legacy for themselves.

In the end the club will be out 21,300 (minimum) for a name change that will admittedly garner no real gains in membership, lauded buy those with the bedside manor of a veterinary physician and in the end, those who pushed this through with sound and fury signifying nothing will see no improvement in the membership because they forgot one thing - the demographic of the membership in this group doesn't care about knitting circles and amateur radio clubs but just want to go out and have a good time.
__________________
Buttercup's Web Site. WBCCI #17330, 11281 & 7830. VAC Past President, TAC NV-2 & NV-3
Buttercup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2006, 07:17 AM   #4
Rivet Master
 
LuminumTraila's Avatar
 
2006 19' Safari SE
NW of Boston , Massachusetts
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 987
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by yukionna
I'm a little confused about what the facts are relating to the upcoming vote on the WBCCI name change issue. There are a few threads on this forum which debate the issue but nothing which clearly outlines the facts of the issue. Is there a way we can organize an effort thru the forum to document this issue in an unbiased fashion? I think a fact sheet would also assist the Units to present this issue at their upcoming Spring business meetings. Any ideas?


Yuki Ė This is a good idea! It would be great to have at least a history of whatís happened so far for those of us who were out of the loop at the time. Follow that with a good description of exactly what's being voted on and what happens with the outcome of the vote. Add to that some supporting facts, not suppositions, and a complete detailing of the potential costs and any other ups and downs.

I got my March Blue Beret yesterday and it leaves me as confused as ever, especially after reading some of the forum threads and hearing some of the members views v. the executive view. For example, where the BB says "Assumption: It is not necessary to retain "Wally Byam" or any of the current words in the new corporate name." Where did this assumption come from? Is it from the survey? When was this survey done and what did it ask and what answers did it get? Everyone knows you can write a survey to support anything you want it to support, and take from it whatever you want, and leave out what you donít want. Maybe the survey results should be left out of the facts page for lack of integrity. The WBCCI needs to understand that it's membership is in flux and that many people who will be sending delegates to vote on this will be hearing about it for the first time in the next few months.

Couldn't informed WBCCI/forum members, both for and against name change, do a better job of putting information together for the units to take to member voters?

If only this had been handled better last year.

-Jamie
__________________
Doug & Jamie, AIR #650
LuminumTraila is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2006, 08:43 AM   #5
Moderator
 
jcanavera's Avatar

 
2004 30' Classic Slideout
Fenton , Missouri
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,002
Images: 143
Send a message via AIM to jcanavera Send a message via Skype™ to jcanavera
While we can discuss the merits of the name change until the cows come home, the real core issue that I see here is the process of how voting issues are presented to the membership. In my 4 years of being a member, this particular issue (forgetting about what we voted on last April was changed or not) was handled just like every other item is handled that requires membership approval.

Buttercup and GT, correct me if my assumptions are wrong, while you object specifically to the name change, isn't the bottom line core issue that you object to the process itself?

For all intents no matter what we are saying here, the yes or no vote on the name change will pass through the same system that originated the change action last year. Which means that in the case of our local unit. The 20 or so folks who show up for our first rally in April will control the end result of our Unit's vote at International.

Until someone champions or proposes a different system to obtain membership votes, we are doomed to this type of discourse, every time an issue comes forth that is controversial.

The real key for those of you upset that this happened, is to go back to your unit leadership and get some grass roots effort to change the system.

Jack
__________________
Jack Canavera
STL Mo.
AIR #56
'04 Classic 30' S.O.,'03 GMC Savana 2500,'14 Honda CTX 700
jcanavera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2006, 10:37 AM   #6
Rivet Master
 
yukionna's Avatar
 
Massachusetts
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: 1964 17' Bambi II
Posts: 4,278
Images: 18
Send a message via Yahoo to yukionna
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcanavera
The 20 or so folks who show up for our first rally in April will control the end result of our Unit's vote at International.
Jack
Is absentee voting allowed?
__________________
WBCCI Region One

Attitude is the only difference between ordeal and adventure
yukionna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2006, 11:09 AM   #7
VAC President
 
Buttercup's Avatar
 
1977 27' Overlander
1954 25' Cruiser
1990 34.5' Airstream 345
VC Highlands , Nevada
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,149
Send a message via Skype™ to Buttercup
Jack you are correct - we are upset not only at the frivolity of the name change but of the way that it was and is being done. Really, there are so many levels where this is wrong.
The BB and Roy Bernd haver the ability to publish any information on this name change they want in the Blue Beret but nowhere will you find the opposing viewpoint published (except these forums). So of course we are labeled as the whiners and complainers.

Every member has (or will have) the info that Roy published but that means that the membership is only HALF informed. To those who read only this information and think "Yea, this is a good idea" are making that decision with only a part of the information. And therefore this most important decision will be taken by people who are basically probably going to be mis-informed at best and at least uninformed.

The best that we (the whiners and complainers) can hope to do is inform as many people as we can by whatever means (including these forums) we can on the reasons this name change is wrong. I can imagine that Wally is just turning in his grave at the gross mismanagement the IBT and folks like Roy are exhibiting in pushing the name change. And I will hazard a guess that those who are most annoyed at the concerns of the opposing viewpoint are those who just want to see this pass before anybody knows what ever happened. The grass roots efforts start right here, on these forums.

As for absentee voting - it depends on the unit and what they allow. I am sure that the more progressive units will want to be sure they reach every single member so will allow some sort of mail in ballot.
__________________
Buttercup's Web Site. WBCCI #17330, 11281 & 7830. VAC Past President, TAC NV-2 & NV-3
Buttercup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2006, 11:41 AM   #8
3 Rivet Member
Commercial Member
 
Jim Jarzabek's Avatar
 
1950 25' Cruiser
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Lebanon , Ohio
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 238
Images: 16
So much bickering...

Boy there is a lot of infighting going on here.....
It seems like there is enough dissension to form a new group.....perhaps?
__________________
Jim Jarzabek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2006, 12:34 PM   #9
VAC President
 
Buttercup's Avatar
 
1977 27' Overlander
1954 25' Cruiser
1990 34.5' Airstream 345
VC Highlands , Nevada
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,149
Send a message via Skype™ to Buttercup
Jim,

That has been discussed before. If the name change does go through, that might happen... I have seen it before.
__________________
Buttercup's Web Site. WBCCI #17330, 11281 & 7830. VAC Past President, TAC NV-2 & NV-3
Buttercup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2006, 01:21 PM   #10
Rivet Master
 
LuminumTraila's Avatar
 
2006 19' Safari SE
NW of Boston , Massachusetts
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 987
Images: 3
Can't we do both?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcanavera
While we can discuss the merits of the name change until the cows come home, the real core issue that I see here is the process of how voting issues are presented to the membership.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcanavera
Until someone champions or proposes a different system to obtain membership votes, we are doomed to this type of discourse, every time an issue comes forth that is controversial.

The real key for those of you upset that this happened, is to go back to your unit leadership and get some grass roots effort to change the system.

Jack
Jack -- So, do you think if Yuki and other unit Prez's and their membership got a grassroots effort going to show the flaws in the decision-making process, using the name-change decision as an example, this could possibly hold off the name change vote and decision until the process is corrected?

If it's too late for a change in the decision-making process to impact the name-change decision, then I think we need to get ready for the vote and get together some information for our members, get it disseminated, and work out a good process for our units to vote on this matter so they can make an informed decision before the cows come home. Then after the cows are home, we can send 'em out to pasture again while we work on the second problem of a flawed process. (wish I had cow smilie for here )

-J
__________________
Doug & Jamie, AIR #650
LuminumTraila is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2006, 02:09 PM   #11
Rivet Master
 
yukionna's Avatar
 
Massachusetts
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: 1964 17' Bambi II
Posts: 4,278
Images: 18
Send a message via Yahoo to yukionna
Club News from March 2006 Blue Beret

OK, I just received my March Blue Beret and scanned in the text of the article for those of you interested in reading it. My question is: is the name change a done deal? In other words, are we voting on WHAT the new name will be or do we still have a chance to vote on IF the name will change?

Club Name Change Update
R.B. Bernd, Chairman Name Selection Committee

In keeping with the directions of the Delegates at their Springfield, MO, meeting in June 2005, the International Board of Trustees has selected a name that will be presented to the Delegates for approval in Salem. The Board also voted to present to the Delegates a logo reflecting the new name.

The vote of the board was unanimous on both the name and logo.

For your information, we are providing the membership with a slightly abbreviated copy of the Name Change Committee Study that was presented to the Board. The complete study, with all its annexes, has been mailed to all unit presidents.

This information is provided to the members so you will be well informed on the reasoning that went into selecting the name and logo for Airstream owners Association, international (AOAI). Each member will be given the opportunity to vote for the name and logo at their unit before sending their Delegate off to Salem.

NAME SELECTION COMMITTEE STUDY

Task: To recommend a new name for the Wally Byam Caravan Club, International (WBCCI), International, recommend an implementation procedure and develop an associated cost estimate.

Assumption: It is not necessary to retain “Wally Byam” or any of the current words in the new corporate name.

Facts Bearing on the Problem:
a. At the June 2005 Delegates meeting, members voted by a large margin (5,634 to 1,498) to insert the name Airstream in the name of the club.
b. Airstream, Inc. will allow the club to use its name.
c. The name selected must be simple and descriptive of the club.
d. Removing “Wally Byam” from the name and logo will not be acceptable to some members.
e. Most younger members and potential members (who will perpetuate the club) do not identify with Wally Byam.
f. For years the clubs official stationery has had “The Airstream RV Association” in its letterhead beside the logo.
g. WBCCI can be retained as our legal name and we can DBA the name selected, or we can totally implement the change.
h. Beside the international organization, units with official charters containing WBCCI will need to change their charters.
i. Our “Official” name must include the word “Incorporated” – but we don’t have to show it in our logo or paraphernalia.
j. Our new name must clearly differentiate us from the Airstream Company.

Discussion:
a. Members want the name change for convenience and clear identity. A by-product of the change could be increased membership, but that is not the primary motivation.
b. Members have suggested many names. Of those, the Airstream Club, Airstream Association, Airstream Owners Association, and Airstream RV Association best fit the criteria of descriptive and simple.
c. Following is a discussion of the most predominant Name Alternatives. Numbers 5 and 6 below are included in this discussion, although not considered viable because no specific recommendation is advanced.
1. Airstream Club:When asked who/what WBCCI is our usual response is simply "we are the Airstream Club." It defines us.
2. Airstream Association:Also defines who we are simply. Many members comment that we are much more than a "club", we are an "association" and need to proclaim that. Further, a "club" tends to be exclusive whereas an "association" tends to be inclusive. This is an important but subtle distinction.
3. Airstream Owners Association: Most accurately and simply defines who we are: an association of people who own Airstream recreation vehicles. Including the word "owners" clearly separates us from the Airstream Company, Airstream dealers and vendors of Airstream products.
4. Airstream RV Association:This was added to our letterhead several years ago as an attempt to identify who/what we are. Most of the RVing population of North America knows that an Airstream is a recreation vehicle; therefore including "RV" can be considered redundant.
5. Airstream Caravan Club:Although initially formed as a club whose members participated in caravans, that is no longer the case. Few of our members participate in caravans, per se. In 2003 and 2004 fewer than 15 percent of our members participated in a numbered (U-R-N) caravan. A frequent reply when soliciting new members for the Wally Byam Caravan Club is: "We don't want to caravan, so we're not interested in joining a caravan club." The word "Caravan", to the uninformed conjures up visions of RV's traveling lock step down a highway.
6. Any name containing WALLY BYAM:Retaining Wally Byam in our name is popular with traditionalists (mostly long-time members). Including Wally Byam complicates the name and does not define who we are. Presently it is necessary to explain who Mr. Byam was when defining ourselves. His goals, standards, ethics, etc., can be
retained within our Association, but it is not necessary to retain his name in our name to do so.
d. A new logo should be included in the package presented to the delegates, even though that is not part of the task. The IBT has the authority to make a selection, but because it is an emotional issue affecting the entire membership, it is this committee's strong recommendation that a new logo should also be approved by the membership through the delegates at the 30 June 2006 meeting. This will speed the process of name changeover and completely unify the entire procedure.
e. Many logos have been reviewed. The logo recommended has been the most popular with members who have given opinions. The silhouette of the Airstream on the globe map outline, and the wrapped name clearly identifies us as traveling Airstreamers.
1. This logo is very similar in color and design to our present logo. Therefore, "grandfathered" items, such as flags, will not be so obviously obsolete.
2. The next most popular logo contained a small silhouette of Wally Byam. That logo begged the question, "Who is the guy with the funny hat?" Further, if we are removing Wally Byam from our corporate name what purpose is served by retaining his likeness in our logo?
f. When we change our corporate name all our clubs materials (logo's, badges, flags, patches, stationery, etc.) should be changed to reflect what we call ourselves. This renders any argument of cost of one method over the other basically mute.
g. If we call ourselves "X", our materials need to be changed to reflect "X" - - not the old "Y" Therefore, we will need to go to the expense of a new logo and having it trademarked and registered. That will have to happen regardless of whether we officially change our Articles of Incorporation or corporate name only. Thus, the net cost is the same whichever method is used.
h. Units and regions must be allowed to "grandfather" as much of their existing material as possible. At the unit's discretion, inventory of items such as unit officer flags, stationery, badges and other material containing current identification should be exhausted through attrition. Past officer's flags should be permanently "grandfathered." (Note: Logo decals for membership badges will be issued free to units.)
i. Lawyers familiar with patent and trademarking warn us that we will have no legal rights to our DBA name - - it is not protected from use or legal assumption by others. Further, their experience is that at a later date, DBA organizations usually proceed to legally adopt their DBA name, thus incurring duplicate legal expenses. Amending the Articles of Incorporation now completes the entire process with finality.
j. There will be a minor cost at the unit level. Costs will vary between units based on a variety of things, e.g., when and how many unit officer flags does the unit want to replace (the major expense at $57 ea); will the unit use up its inventory of stationery or dispose and order new; other WBCCI brand specific items a unit has that should be
replaced; and the costs for changing Articles of Incorporation in its state (if incorporated).
k. Implementation procedures, logo design and associated costs for any name would be equal.
I. Once the IBT selects a name and logo to be presented to the delegates, availability/legality of their use needs to be determined so we are assured that what is presented to the delegates for approval can, in fact, be done.
m. Name change in Ohio takes 2 weeks. Federal Trademark Registration could take 3 to 4 months. The corporate counsel believes the likelihood of infringement is very remote. We can be poised to go forward as soon as the new name is approved at the Delegates Meeting, 30 June 2006.
1. New stationery, flags, badges, patches, etc., can be ordered and put in use within a few weeks.
2. Formal Federal Trademark Registration can also commence.

Conclusions:
a. Airstream Owners Association, Incorporated most simply and accurately defines our organization. We should then also replace WBCCI with the initials AOAI versus AOA. A Goggle search of AOA results in 2,500,000 hits with organizations ranging from the US Association on Aging to the American Ostrich Association. AOAI gets 31,500 hits
and only the Avanti Owners Association, International is recognizable.
b. The new logo simply and accurately identifies our organization.
c. Organizations and individuals throughout the organization must be allowed to retain and/or use their current stocks of material.
d. The overall benefit of legally changing the name of our organization versus keeping our current name and "Doing Business As" the new name selected far outweigh any immediate cost saving or convenience. Now is the time to do the name and logo change and to fully complete and implement the process.
e. The estimated cost of the name change ($21,300) should be included in the 2006-2007 budget.

Recommendations:
a. Approve AIRSTREAM OWNERS ASSOCIATION, INCORPORATED " as the name to be presented to the delegates for approval at their 30 June 2006 meeting. (Replace the initials WBCCI with AOAI.)
b. Approve the the new club logo (logo in color on page 2) to be presented to the delegates for approval at their 30 June 2006 meeting.
c. Allow units, regions and past officers to continue use of current material until due for replacement.
d. Insist that the name change and logo be fully registered and trade marked.
e. Include money in the 2006 budget for the implementation.


NOTE: The IBT unanimously accepted the recommendations above after amending the name to add the word "International" in that we have members in several countries throughout the world. Thus, Airstream Owners Association International, Incorporated will be the name presented to the membership for their vote. (Our current name also includes Incorporated, but it is seldom used.)
__________________
WBCCI Region One

Attitude is the only difference between ordeal and adventure
yukionna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2006, 02:47 PM   #12
VAC President
 
Buttercup's Avatar
 
1977 27' Overlander
1954 25' Cruiser
1990 34.5' Airstream 345
VC Highlands , Nevada
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,149
Send a message via Skype™ to Buttercup
Depends on who you ask. Some feel(hope) that it is a done deal. But I think that if given the information that Roy puts out in the BB and comparing that to the opposing viewpoints, most reasonablely intelligent people would look at the facts and (just like on these forums) vote against the name change as folly.
__________________
Buttercup's Web Site. WBCCI #17330, 11281 & 7830. VAC Past President, TAC NV-2 & NV-3
Buttercup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2006, 02:57 PM   #13
Rivet Master
 
LuminumTraila's Avatar
 
2006 19' Safari SE
NW of Boston , Massachusetts
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 987
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
Depends on who you ask. Some feel(hope) that it is a done deal. But I think that if given the information that Roy puts out in the BB and comparing that to the opposing viewpoints, most reasonablely intelligent people would look at the facts and (just like on these forums) vote against the name change as folly.
Does this mean that if the delegates vote against the name that is being proposed -- Airstream Owners Association, Inc. -- then there will be no name change? Or does it mean that whoever thinks up these names will be asked to go back and try again? Or will they be voting in order of preference among several names presented and the one with the most votes prevails?
__________________
Doug & Jamie, AIR #650
LuminumTraila is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2006, 03:13 PM   #14
VAC President
 
Buttercup's Avatar
 
1977 27' Overlander
1954 25' Cruiser
1990 34.5' Airstream 345
VC Highlands , Nevada
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,149
Send a message via Skype™ to Buttercup
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougjamie
Does this mean that if the delegates vote against the name that is being proposed -- Airstream Owners Association, Inc. -- then there will be no name change? Or does it mean that whoever thinks up these names will be asked to go back and try again? Or will they be voting in order of preference among several names presented and the one with the most votes prevails?
The delegates must vote as their unit voted for the name change. So a unit vote will be held. If the unit majority votes against the name change then, yes - the delegate for that unit will vote against.
The funny thing is that the IBT tells everybody that the results were overwhelming in-favor of the name change as voted by delegates when this started. But you can easily see how this information is flawed. One delegate does not an entire unit make.
On these forums the tables were turned completely around with a vast majority of the individuals who voted being opposed to the name change. That is why I say that given ALL of the arguments, both for and against, most people will tend to vote against the name change.
__________________

__________________
Buttercup's Web Site. WBCCI #17330, 11281 & 7830. VAC Past President, TAC NV-2 & NV-3
Buttercup is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tile or single piece vinyl? Andy R Floor Finishes 36 05-10-2003 07:56 PM
Ideas to change the floor plan / interieur of a 1979 Safari Hans General Interior Topics 0 12-23-2002 11:58 AM
Sheet Aluminum repair lee_jachter Ribs, Skins & Rivets 8 11-23-2002 09:48 AM
Partial Floor change winner Floor Finishes 12 07-22-2002 07:08 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.