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Old 03-10-2006, 04:03 PM   #99
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Fred -- I took your suggestion and visited the WBCCI forum. I only found one thread on the name change issue and it had 7 posts since 1-15-06. A few of the posts in that thread contained information given at Airstreamforums.com and suggested that people visit here to find out what's going on because no one seemed to be paying any attention or offering any information on the WBCCI forum. That could be why people are coming to this site for discussion. I left a note there anyway (and was censored already for the word "associated")
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Old 03-10-2006, 04:17 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by dougjamie
Fred -- I took your suggestion and visited the WBCCI forum. I only found one thread on the name change issue and it had 7 posts since 1-15-06. A few of the posts in that thread contained information given at Airstreamforums.com and suggested that people visit here to find out what's going on because no one seemed to be paying any attention or offering any information on the WBCCI forum. That could be why people are coming to this site for discussion. I left a note there anyway (and was censored already for the word "associated")
Good for you! My suggestion would be to take at least part of your discussion over there... not 'cause we don't want it here, but because it needs to be on WBCCI turf! Keep both going, and post elsewhere as well. Call the WBCCI office and make sure the national officers are following it. THEY'RE the folks who need to hear you and see the discussion. Use the WBCCI forums appropriately; it's what it's there for, and probably THE best way to communicate with the club leadership. Point everyone who's interested in the issue to post their point of view, and follow it up here as well for maximum exposure.

Draft a counter proposal and forward it. Get it out and in the hands of the membership. Give them that choice. The ball's in your court.

Good luck!

Roger
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Old 03-10-2006, 05:11 PM   #101
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WBCCI Forums

I too went there and looked at the forum. Only 360 people - not too many. I registered and the first message I saw was a statement that "The forum administrator has the right to edit, censor, delete or modify any posted message." No difference with the forums here. But there is no statement of policies as these forums have and therefore no guidelines at to what posts would be edited for which content. This leaves the door open to having WBCCI remove a thread if it doesn't like the content, for example a movement to stop the name change.

I saw few posts but what I did see is that he threads spoke of there being (generally) disappointment in the leadership but also hope that some of the changes the leadership was taking would be taking (somewhat unspecified as to what changes exactly). I also saw no posts in support of the name change.
Actually it sounded exactly like many of the discussions we have had on these forums.

But this also left me with questions. For example...How many of the 360 members are WBCCI members? Of that how many are, say, IBT, delegates, unit officers, or just represent WBCCI in any official capacity at all? That lead to further thoughts - with so few people there (and so many here) why expect that the WBCCI would be better aware of the issues expressed on that forum than over here? I bet that there are more officers, IBT and delegates registered here than over there. In fact based on a poll, there are more registered WBCCI members on these forums than total registered individuals on WBCCI forum.

Looking further, that forum has no moderation that I can see. It is a simple forum structure and I am only guessing that there are no active moderators or administrators (being as WBCCI farms out the site maintenance to an outside company). The "administrator" had only one post - a statement of the "CODE OF ETHICS". The administrator turns out to be Cindy Reed, who if memory serves me correctly is part of the office staff.

All in all, my impression is that the WBCCI forums are not a resource to carry on any discussion on any aspect of the name change or any WBCCI business because it a dead forum. On the name change there is a total of 7 posts - and not one statement in favor of the name change. Half the posts had questions and no responses by anybody stating that they are from WBCCI in any capacity.

Now on to poke around the airstream.com forums...
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Old 03-10-2006, 06:21 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by azflycaster
2air, this link was made for you: http://www.imgag.com/product/full/ap/3034801/

ok azflycaster...or is it flycatcher? thanks for the bunny link...
it's funny bunnies AND meatloaf!
i'd throw ya some green .....
but the meter says i gotta spread it around first....

and cooperhawk those meatloaf receipes in the p.m. are mighty fine....

careful now, this thread might become interesting and useful....

food for all!

and happy snake saturday to all me' lucky charms......

cheers
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Old 03-10-2006, 06:45 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Buttercup
I too went there and looked at the forum. Only 360 people - not too many. I registered and the first message I saw was a statement that "The forum administrator has the right to edit, censor, delete or modify any posted message." No difference with the forums here. But there is no statement of policies as these forums have and therefore no guidelines at to what posts would be edited for which content. This leaves the door open to having WBCCI remove a thread if it doesn't like the content, for example a movement to stop the name change.

All in all, my impression is that the WBCCI forums are not a resource to carry on any discussion on any aspect of the name change or any WBCCI business because it a dead forum. On the name change there is a total of 7 posts - and not one statement in favor of the name change. Half the posts had questions and no responses by anybody stating that they are from WBCCI in any capacity.
I don't get it. Ok... I'm gonna be a little critical here... you want to save the WBCCI. In the very next breath you're criticizing the WBCCI's attempt to furnish you exactly what you want, a forum to discuss the WBCCI policies with it's staff, officers and membership, but today's the first time you've registered with them? And it's not good enough for you to use? It doesn't have enough members or get used enough? And you don't trust your club's leadership enough that they would allow open discussion about the club and decisions they're making? And you're afraid of censorship without ever having actually posted there? And yet you're passionate about the club name?

Anyway, my point is... other than being critical about it here what are YOU going to do about it there? It's YOUR club!

Roger
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Old 03-10-2006, 06:51 PM   #104
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Buttercup, you raised a lot of puzzlements in your post above. Did you raise them in the new forum? It would be interesting to see the responses directly from the WBCCI. This looks like the time to do it Happy posting! ~G
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Old 03-10-2006, 07:11 PM   #105
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Roger,

Are you registered there? Have you posted there? Funny because when I joind this forum, I did so because it was everything that WBCCI's forum is not. I made a critical judgement then - only difference was that it was in favor of ASForums. Doesn't matter... The response is simple. I took a suggestion to go there and post. I looked around. And there is only one thing to say about it - it's a dead forum, period. But I will answer your questions...
Yes
Perhaps
Definitely
I do not
I am not
Yes, I am - you had to ask?

Wheel is right - damned if you do and damned if you don't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 85MH325
I don't get it. Ok... I'm gonna be a little critical here... you want to save the WBCCI. In the very next breath you're criticizing the WBCCI's attempt to furnish you exactly what you want, a forum to discuss the WBCCI policies with it's staff, officers and membership, but today's the first time you've registered with them? And it's not good enough for you to use? It doesn't have enough members or get used enough? And you don't trust your club's leadership enough that they would allow open discussion about the club and decisions they're making? And you're afraid of censorship without ever having actually posted there? And yet you're passionate about the club name?

Anyway, my point is... other than being critical about it here what are YOU going to do about it there? It's YOUR club!

Roger
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Old 03-10-2006, 07:23 PM   #106
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No, I'm neither registered there nor would it be appropriate to post there as I'm no longer a member of WBCCI. But I'm not the one being critical of the club's management or the direction they're setting.

You seem to have the motivation to try to fix what you percieve needs to be fixed, yet you seem to me to be bent only on criticizing, stirring the pot and rabble rousing rather than effecting positive change.

It's not my intent to incite or demean you and your efforts. I just see them as a fruitless waste of time in the wrong place, and you seem happy to just plug along spinning your wheels.

My observations are meant to be objective and friendly, and I hope you take them that way. I've said my piece on the issue. Thanks for listening.

Roger
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Old 03-10-2006, 10:55 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
Hi Fred! I sent you an email with attachments yesterday -- I hope you got it...
Yes I did, and I just quickly looked at them now. Thanks! I was gone all day yesterday and busy today with other things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
Have you ever spent any time over at wbcci.org in their forums? It's the one place where you can actually find out if a tree makes a sound if it falls in the woods and NOONE is there to hear it. Crickets also come to mind... The right place is where the action is and that's here, that is unless there's a movement to remove the WBCCI sub-forum.
I was making a helpful suggestion to you and Buttercup to expand your audience by also posting your messages on the WBCCI Forum to ignite a dialogue and discussion there, which in my view is another appropriate location that might get the attention of WBCCI officers and WBCCI members who are not on this Forum.

When this Forum began, it had very few members and posters. If the early viewers and lurchers sniffed that there were fewer than 350 members on this Forum and it was therefore "dead" and not deserving of their time, effort and input, it never would have grown to its present size. Capice?

Since I'm not up to creating a parable, I'll post a simple analogy: if you want to spread the gospel, you have to preach beyond the choir, which is already in the church. If you want to convert the heathen, you should seriously consider posting on www.webeeheatherns.com.
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Old 03-11-2006, 12:31 AM   #108
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I have another question -- this question is for those people with "vote no name change" avatar's. Why do you have avatar's that say "vote no name change" when the name change is a done deal? I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from.

From what Shari indicated in her post, the delegates voted "yes" to the name change last year so voting "no name change" doesn't seem to be an option here. It seems the only option is to vote on WHAT the new name will be not IF the name will change. Again, I'm just trying to understand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yukionna
I thought the "done deal" was that the name IS going to change. What I thought was NOT the done deal is WHAT the name will be. So, my understanding is that this June the delegates will vote either yes or no to if the name will be AOAI. If the majority is "yes" then the name will change to AOAI; if the majority is "no" then a new name will be decided on and presented to the delegates for voting. Am I missing something?
Quote:
Originally Posted by yukionna
I think I understand now. Initially I was confused when I saw your avatars because I interpreted them as we still had a chance to vote "no" against the name change which is not the case. A "no" vote will only delay the inevitable name change, right?
Yukionna,
I beleive you've got it. I can say that I sport a "Vote No Name Change" Avatar because:
A. It was available.
B. I do not support AOAI and I want to encourage others to vote against it.
C. It is a non-violent way to protest.
D. It's fun!

I personally am not opposed to adding Airstream to the WBCCI Club Name, perhaps as something like the Wally Byam Airstream Club (WBAC), but quite frankly, I see very little need to do so, so if a motion comes forward to table the whole idea I would be happy to support that.

I believe that if AOAI is defeated, WBCCI Leadership will most likely give it another try, and send another proposal to the membership next year. Hopefully, that 2nd attempt will be a less extreme change from the current name of the club (perhaps something like WBAC?). If that second attempt is not so extreme, I probably won't oppose it. If it passes, so be it. But if that fails, I could very easily see WBCCI tabling the whole name change idea. I would think after two failed attempts it would become obvious to WBCCI Leadership that a name change would not a worth spending any more time or money on.

But these are only suppositions. Time will tell how this will all finally play out. All I know is that I will continue to try to defeat AOAI in a positive and constructive manner. I have been in contact with one of my Units (I submitted an editorial to the Newsletter as well as talked about this issue at a luncheon, . . . and I will contact my other Unit soon). I have also been in contact with my Region and even an International Officer to express my opinion on this proposal. Unlike the image presented by some folks here, at least some of us that are opposed to the name change are trying to influence this decision inside WBCCI as well as expressing our opinions here.

Thanks for your interest on this issue.
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Old 03-11-2006, 06:12 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by 66Overlander
But these are only suppositions. Time will tell how this will all finally play out. All I know is that I will continue to try to defeat AOAI in a positive and constructive manner. I have been in contact with one of my Units (I submitted an editorial to the Newsletter as well as talked about this issue at a luncheon, . . . and I will contact my other Unit soon). I have also been in contact with my Region and even an International Officer to express my opinion on this proposal. Unlike the image presented by some folks here, at least some of us that are opposed to the name change are trying to influence this decision inside WBCCI as well as expressing our opinions here.

Thanks for your interest on this issue.
66Overlander -- Your views and answers to Yukionna's questions are very nicely expressed. Thank you for speaking on this!

I was wondering if you would be willing to share your newsletter editorial (by email perhaps?) with me and others who are interested in it, to help us write our own letters or opinion and informational pieces for our local units. You seem to have a good handle on what has transpired and what might happen with the upcoming vote.
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Old 03-11-2006, 08:52 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
The past is important when dealing with the future. I can give you some history, but facts as to what is coming up -- those are closely held by the chosen few...

THIS post will help you understand how this all got screwed up -- I'm assuming you've never seen it, but I reserve my right to change my assumption based on your feedback...

http://www.airforums.com/forum...63-post35.html

__
Thanks for the link to that post -- I had not seen that before. FYI -- for anyone who hasn't seen the Blue Book and/or the 2006 Blue Book changes yet, this information is online in PDF format on the New England Unit website: http://www.wbcci1.org/ne/links.htm.
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Old 03-11-2006, 10:24 AM   #111
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Old 03-11-2006, 10:45 AM   #112
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Exactly! But I couldn't find the section on flamingo placement in all those pages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
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