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03-10-2006, 11:16 AM
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#81
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Rivet Master
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer
, Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,080
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I guess you would have to ask Andy why he made a WBCCI forum, and why he offered space for a WBCCI unit web site. Members here do have the choice not to visit threads of no interest to them.
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03-10-2006, 11:32 AM
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#82
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Rivet Master
2006 19' Safari SE
NW of Boston
, Massachusetts
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 987
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Great! Maybe you could give us some insight on why you think the club and its membership would benefit from the name change. You say it's no big deal to you; do you think that the costs involved are worth whatever you feel would be gained from changing the name?
Thanks!
-J
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie M
I'm in my first year as a member of the WBCCI and enjoying my unit and friends of other units that I have met over the past nine months. The name change is no big deal. In fact I support the name change
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__________________
Doug & Jamie, AIR #650
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03-10-2006, 12:02 PM
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#83
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Moderator dude
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested
I guess you would have to ask Andy why he made a WBCCI forum, and why he offered space for a WBCCI unit web site.
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I believe that may have been a mod request.
An insite to this Forum. Andy has created an awesome vehicle in this forum. And he has created several others. As admin/mods we do have input as to what kind of layout works. And what kind of catagories are needed. It's in constant change put together by the team of volunteers. The WBCCI is a revelant topic to Airstream products. And anything revelant to Airstreams is included. We don't restrict any flow of ideas and experiences. This forum was creat to increase that flow of ideas and experiences. However the Forum it's self is neutral on any topic. (And it has zero influence on WBCCI, Thor Industries or Airstream. The opposite is also true.)
And there will be more improvements coming. Always.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
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03-10-2006, 12:03 PM
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#84
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Rivet Master
1977 27' Overlander
1954 25' Cruiser
1990 34.5' Airstream 345
VC Highlands
, Nevada
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85MH325
What I don't understand is why you've chosen this forum to be the basis of your campaign when so few of the AirstreamForums members belong to the WBCCI. While I understand the necessity of getting the word out to those members who belong here as well, wouldn't your campaign be more effective if were carried directly to the membership of the WBCCI local units? I think that contacting each unit's officers, and subsequently the membership of each unit would be a more effective approach.
Roger
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Roger,
What I don't understand is why we shouldn't discuss it here? Just because you don't like the topic? Why do you object? Are you for or against the name change?
Why do you come back and read it if it offends you? There are many threads that I just bypass because I don't care. I suspect that those who are reading this thread (and we all know that there are many watching this) read because they are interested either in the topic or in the impassioned discussion.
What keeps you in???
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03-10-2006, 12:11 PM
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#85
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Rivet Master
1977 27' Overlander
1954 25' Cruiser
1990 34.5' Airstream 345
VC Highlands
, Nevada
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Action
it has zero influence on WBCCI, Thor Industries or Airstream. The opposite is also true.)
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I don't know... I can't help but think that it does influence WBCCI. We all know that many IBT members and other high ranking people do read the forums. They have to be aware that there is rumblings going on. If not, why bother to put out the extended info on the name change in BB? If it was relatively uncontested.
No I am under the impression that WBCCI is very much a part of the forums. Heck, I am a member of WBCCI, I read the forums.
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03-10-2006, 12:17 PM
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#86
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Moderator dude
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
Roger,
What I don't understand is why we shouldn't discuss it here?
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To step in for Roger. No one that I know of is saying you shouldn't discuss it. I don't think anyone is offended if you discuss it. And none of the Forum Admin/Mods or the owner certainly do not object that you discuss it.
The thought that we are expressing is that you (collectively the people that have your view point and have expressed it on very many occaisions) think that by creating many threads and posts you will cause change to an orgainization (WBCCI) that has little affilition to the Airstream Forums. It's actually amusing.
You state you want the WBCCI name to remain the same. I hope your current method is working for you to that end. I suggest an alternative that I believe would work. And you can choose to ignore it. Get involve with the WBCCI and take all of the like minded people with you to the WBCCI. Because the change you are asking for can only occur at the WBCCI not here. And that is my opinion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
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03-10-2006, 12:42 PM
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#87
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Rivet Master
1977 27' Overlander
1954 25' Cruiser
1990 34.5' Airstream 345
VC Highlands
, Nevada
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Action
No one that I know of is saying you shouldn't discuss it. I don't think anyone is offended if you discuss it. And none of the Forum Admin/Mods or the owner certainly do not object that you discuss it.
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O.K. Good. As long as no one is offended. Then I can let go of my impression that some on these forums are pressuring those of us who oppose the name change to take our ball and go home quietly.
And really, despite the thought that it in not making a difference, I think it is because, like I said before, There are enough people coming forward stating that they were unaware, or are just not happy about it.
In other words, the forums are doing what they do best - keeping people involved.
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03-10-2006, 12:48 PM
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#88
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Rivet Master
1948 16' Wee Wind
1953 21' Flying Cloud
Denver
, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,169
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WBCCI Forum
Buttercup & 65GT:
For broader coverage and to put the issue more directly under the noses of the WBCCI National and Regional Officers and WBCCI members, why don't you also start a pro- and con- name change debate thread on the WBCCI Forum:
http://www.wbcci.org/Forum/
__________________
Fred Coldwell, WBCCI #1510, AIR #2675
Denver, Colorado - WBCCI Unit 24
Airstream Life "Old Aluminum"
Airstream Life "From the Archives"
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03-10-2006, 01:15 PM
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#89
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Just an old timer...
2004 22' Interstate
Tipton
, Iowa
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
Roger,
What I don't understand is why we shouldn't discuss it here? Just because you don't like the topic? Why do you object? Are you for or against the name change?
Why do you come back and read it if it offends you? There are many threads that I just bypass because I don't care. I suspect that those who are reading this thread (and we all know that there are many watching this) read because they are interested either in the topic or in the impassioned discussion.
What keeps you in???
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I thought I was succinct in my prior posts, but in case I wasn't, I'll restate my thoughts. The WBCCI name change issue is a tempest in a teapot. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not folks join or stay. The organization no longer has a focus and is being pulled in many directions by many different factions who all believe that their vision is THE vision. WBCCI was started as a Caravan Club, and has been so for the past 50 years. I'm not sure what folks want it to be anymore.
I think spending the effort to entertain a name change when there are more serious issues to be dealt with is ludicrous.
I'm not opposed to a discussion of the issues here, nor am I offended. Having many threads, multiple polls, and vitriolic discussions on the subject is a little over-the-top IMHO for such an inconsequential issue, and I suspect that my view is probably shared by more than a few other Forums members.
Last, I believe that the energy expended here, if you want to effect change (or lack of change in this case), would be much more efficiently done by addressing specifically members of the club rather than the current shotgun approach being taken, and maybe having a few members read about it here.
Basically, have your discussions. Enjoy them, but if you're that passionate about this, spend your time in venues where you're likely to make a difference with the membership. Fred's advice is sound.
Roger
__________________
havin' to fix my broken Airstreams since 1987...
AIR 2053 Current: 2004 Airstream Interstate "B-Van" T1N DODGE Sprinter
Former Airstreams: 1953 Flying Cloud, 1957 Overlander, 1961 Bambi, 1970 Safari Special, 1978 Argosy Minuet, 1985 325 Moho, 1994 Limited 34' Two-door, 1994 B190 "B-Van"
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03-10-2006, 01:33 PM
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#90
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Rivet Master
1977 27' Overlander
1954 25' Cruiser
1990 34.5' Airstream 345
VC Highlands
, Nevada
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85MH325
but if you're that passionate about this, spend your time in venues where you're likely to make a difference with the membership. Fred's advice is sound.
Roger
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I know, take my ball and go home quietly.......
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03-10-2006, 01:44 PM
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#91
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Moderator
1968 17' Caravel
Battle Ground
, Washington
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,254
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No, take it somewhere where it will do some good. You can even keep it up here, but are you taking it to the people who can do something about it? That's the real question. For being so passionate about it, you seem hesitant to take any suggestions to really get the ball rolling.
__________________
Stephanie
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03-10-2006, 01:47 PM
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#92
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Just an old timer...
2004 22' Interstate
Tipton
, Iowa
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
I know, take my ball and go home quietly.......
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No... you're probably doing the right stuff... I just don't think you're reaching enough of the right folks on our Forums here. I'd liken your activities here to cheering for your favorite football team while you're watching a basketball game in a gym. You're enthusiastic, but are enough of the right people hearing you for you to be effective toward your goals? Take your campaign on the road. Take it to the leadership and membership of the club on their own turf. Find out how to reach them through the club hierarchy and local units. Have other members here who support your position do the same in their local units. If you haven't already, start similar discussions on other venues. Point out the facts on your website and reference it in your posts. Do it professionally and without rancor. Don't shout when an informed whisper will do. I once had a wise friend tell me that organizations are like a piece of string. You can't push it around from the back or sides and accomplish anything, but you can grab an end and lead it anywhere.
Roger
__________________
havin' to fix my broken Airstreams since 1987...
AIR 2053 Current: 2004 Airstream Interstate "B-Van" T1N DODGE Sprinter
Former Airstreams: 1953 Flying Cloud, 1957 Overlander, 1961 Bambi, 1970 Safari Special, 1978 Argosy Minuet, 1985 325 Moho, 1994 Limited 34' Two-door, 1994 B190 "B-Van"
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03-10-2006, 02:15 PM
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#93
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_
.
, .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
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well folks
i do think the multiple threads on the name change are an issue and have some influence......i was neutral on adding airstream and opposed to aoai but the content and nature of the anti movement here (except for a few) convinced me to support the new name as currently suggested by the committee...
i see very little response to the suggestions of posting this on the airstream.com forums or the wbcci forums.....and still no plan even a simple one....
i have yet to read anything from the small group who bash on this issue....that is complete and clear and factual...or that offers another plan of action. while the committee work isn't perfect...the accusations here are wild and silly....
and the speculating about who and why and where the change will take the wb....
in no way helps gain support for a no vote....it's just mud slinging.
to those new folks recently posting here and opposed to the new name...
welcome to the forums...
i sincerely suggest you take your objections to your local unit and good luck with the democratic process!!
also please post more about your camping and airstream and so on...
i don't think the posts here have any impact on the wb but i do wonder if they have a negative impact on these forums.....and new/members new posters and so on.....
the nature of the days view...keeps these at the top of the list...so guests or folks not logged on don't have the option of not "seeing" them....in the first 15.......and any rhetorical post brings them back to the top...
some forum formats...that don't include a "Bump" feature......only offer these threads to people who have selected to follow them.....and for this topic that would be so nice.......
or perhaps the temporary additon of a wb/name tab....like the ads or side bars or member map tab.......could work....we could then opt to 'click' to read the latest yak...
i still think contacting members by mail or phone is the most productive approach, along with email to any units that have websites, and to the individual unit officials......
i offer to pay for the postage and letter copying......
if either 65gt or bcup (or both) will compose their position statement and action plan for a member mailing....and i mail it to 100 folks of their choosing.....what ever statement they compose.......with no editing by me.
lastly, i would like to see all the "name change ' threads combined into one long thread.
so folks can enjoy the full flavor of this forum debate, without new threads popping up....with the same stuff again, but that don't include the well though out replys in one of the other threads......to much bait and switching going on....
ok,
i'm off to look for something fun or useful here to read.....
cheers
2air
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03-10-2006, 02:28 PM
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#94
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Rivet Master
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer
, Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,080
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Darned if we do, darned if we don't. Kind of a catch all situation in this case. The thread was started by an interested forum member with legitimate questions. It seemed only logical to answer.
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03-10-2006, 02:34 PM
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#95
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_
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, .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested
Darned if we do, darned if we don't. The thread was started by an interested forum member with legitimate questions.
It seemed only logical to answer.
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and yet no one opposing the change has answered post #1....
and wheel interested, if you would like to compose a position statement and action plan...i will mail it with the others....honestly.
sorry i'm busy looking for a meat loaf receipt to try....
or a summer fruit cake....
cheers
2air
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03-10-2006, 02:43 PM
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#96
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The Hawk's Lair
1985 34.5' Airstream 345
BACK WOODS
, Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 922
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Meatloaf?? Go to Foodnetwork.com, Paula Dean and get the one with sausage and hamburger. It is GREAT!
__________________
AKA THE GUNNER
There is no "I" in the word "team," but there are four in "Platitude Quoting Idiot!"
AIRSTREAM 345 TURBO-DIESEL
VFW, LEGION, NRA
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03-10-2006, 02:49 PM
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#97
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Site Team
2002 25' Safari
Dewey
, Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 15,615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
sorry i'm busy looking for a meat loaf receipt to try....
or a summer fruit cake....
cheers
2air
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2air, this link was made for you: http://www.imgag.com/product/full/ap/3034801/
__________________
Richard
Wally Byam Airstream Club 7513
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03-10-2006, 02:55 PM
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#98
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Safari
2015 27' Flying Cloud
Vintage Kin Owner
Conifer/Evergreen
, Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 12,702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azflycaster
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LOL!!!!
Shari
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03-10-2006, 03:03 PM
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#99
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Rivet Master
2006 19' Safari SE
NW of Boston
, Massachusetts
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 987
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Fred -- I took your suggestion and visited the WBCCI forum. I only found one thread on the name change issue and it had 7 posts since 1-15-06. A few of the posts in that thread contained information given at Airstreamforums.com and suggested that people visit here to find out what's going on because no one seemed to be paying any attention or offering any information on the WBCCI forum. That could be why people are coming to this site for discussion. I left a note there anyway (and was censored already for the word "associated")
__________________
Doug & Jamie, AIR #650
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03-10-2006, 03:17 PM
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#100
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Just an old timer...
2004 22' Interstate
Tipton
, Iowa
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougjamie
Fred -- I took your suggestion and visited the WBCCI forum. I only found one thread on the name change issue and it had 7 posts since 1-15-06. A few of the posts in that thread contained information given at Airstreamforums.com and suggested that people visit here to find out what's going on because no one seemed to be paying any attention or offering any information on the WBCCI forum. That could be why people are coming to this site for discussion. I left a note there anyway (and was censored already for the word "associated")
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Good for you! My suggestion would be to take at least part of your discussion over there... not 'cause we don't want it here, but because it needs to be on WBCCI turf! Keep both going, and post elsewhere as well. Call the WBCCI office and make sure the national officers are following it. THEY'RE the folks who need to hear you and see the discussion. Use the WBCCI forums appropriately; it's what it's there for, and probably THE best way to communicate with the club leadership. Point everyone who's interested in the issue to post their point of view, and follow it up here as well for maximum exposure.
Draft a counter proposal and forward it. Get it out and in the hands of the membership. Give them that choice. The ball's in your court.
Good luck!
Roger
__________________
havin' to fix my broken Airstreams since 1987...
AIR 2053 Current: 2004 Airstream Interstate "B-Van" T1N DODGE Sprinter
Former Airstreams: 1953 Flying Cloud, 1957 Overlander, 1961 Bambi, 1970 Safari Special, 1978 Argosy Minuet, 1985 325 Moho, 1994 Limited 34' Two-door, 1994 B190 "B-Van"
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