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Old 03-09-2006, 07:31 PM   #43
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I am impressed at the coordinated effort here by the moderators on this post (and my karma). I should have seen this coming.

And as for old guard - if the shoe fits... The forums are exactly the place for a change to WBCCI. If not where then? Blue Beret? An ad in a magazine somewhere? Airstream.com forums? Nope, this is the place. Afterall, it is an open forum, isn't it?

No mods have been attacked but you all do have the power to end any discussion if you feel you are being attacked. Question is then who mods the mods? I find stefroberts comments on our (my wife and I) involvement inflamatory, but what to do? Report it to her? O.K... to whom?

Anyway, now that this thread has drifted so far off course, why is it still up? Why hasn't been moderated?
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Old 03-09-2006, 07:47 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
... The forums are exactly the place for a change to WBCCI. If not where then?


Afterall, it is an open forum, isn't it?
Your 2nd Q.

It's not exactly an open Forum. Anyone that can not play by the rules that they agreed to when they signed in will not be allowed to continue.

Your 1st Q

And this is not the place to make changes to the WBCCI. Talk about it. Discuss it. Swap ideas about it. Rant about it. But based on results*, this is not the WBCCI and the WBCCI probably doesn't care about the vast majority of forum users that are not members of the WBCCI. Changes to the WBCCI can only occur at the WBCCI. The WBCCI does not use any data here. They don't care about any of the polls here and my unit doesn't even play here. So accept it or not, ranting about a name change to the WBCCI here will not make any difference there.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

*Results! An awesome unit of measure. Often harsh. Always fair.
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Old 03-09-2006, 08:04 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
I am impressed at the coordinated effort here by the moderators on this post (and my karma). I should have seen this coming.
<snip>
Anyway, now that this thread has drifted so far off course, why is it still up? Why hasn't been moderated?
Karma is intended for members to voice opinions, positive AND negative. "Approve" (agree) or "Diasapprove" (disagree)...while most members only dole out postitive, some do occaisionaly voice disagreement too. That's how it works ~ Karma from a mod is no different than from any other member. It's not a warning, it's just a voicing of disagreement. As far as a "coordinated effort" of the moderators' posts, you are sorely mistaken. This thread is being left to stand because, while it has become heated, it does not violate the policies of the forum...

Unfortunately, it has strayed off course and taken the brunt of a lot of pent up sentiment...which really is a shame because it started off positive with a legitimate question & mostly civil dialog.

How about getting it back on track?

Shari
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Old 03-09-2006, 08:06 PM   #46
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Wow! I'm at school and off-line for a few hours and everything goes to wonky!

Knowing Steph, I know she must be pretty frustrated to have actually posted such a strong opinion. I respect her opinion, but I respect Buttercup as well. I know how hard both Buttercup and Steph have been working with their units. It is obvious to anyone who has ready their rally posts or looked at their web sites.

Its too bad...you both are working toward the same things, but in two different ways. Neither of you are "old guard", and you both love what you have found in your local units.

Lets work toward creating "a plan" rather than tearing each other down. I think that is what Steph was trying to get at.

Kathleen
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Old 03-09-2006, 08:13 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
I am impressed at the coordinated effort here by the moderators on this post (and my karma). I should have seen this coming.

And as for old guard - if the shoe fits... The forums are exactly the place for a change to WBCCI. If not where then? Blue Beret? An ad in a magazine somewhere? Airstream.com forums? Nope, this is the place. Afterall, it is an open forum, isn't it?

No mods have been attacked but you all do have the power to end any discussion if you feel you are being attacked. Question is then who mods the mods? I find stefroberts comments on our (my wife and I) involvement inflamatory, but what to do? Report it to her? O.K... to whom?

Anyway, now that this thread has drifted so far off course, why is it still up? Why hasn't been moderated?
Your "coordinated effort" on the part of the moderators is nothing more than a conspiracy theory on your part. I asked the other mods a month ago if it was time to shut the WBCCI threads down, and it was the consensus of the other mods to leave the subject alone. While I don't feel the need to justify any of the actions of the moderators, I will tell you that the responses on this thread are merely us as members responding.

Further, the moderators deal with each other. I've had posts pulled, appropriately, by other moderators. The moderators as a group are incredibly tolerant of members' opinions and unless a post is in really poor taste or someone is attacked (violation of the "play nice" rules), they stand.

And, this is NOT the place to change the WBCCI. Other than having members here who are members of WBCCI as well, there is no other affilliation. Your website, or an ad in the Blue Beret, or a mass mailing to WBCCI members all seem to be the ideal places to engineer advertising for such a change if you think it appropriate.

Last, I don't believe this thread has strayed off the subject much at all, but I'll be happy to close it if that's what you want.

Roger
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Old 03-09-2006, 08:34 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Action
And this is not the place to make changes to the WBCCI. Talk about it. Discuss it. Swap ideas about it. Rant about it. But based on results*, this is not the WBCCI and the WBCCI probably doesn't care about the vast majority of forum users that are not members of the WBCCI. Changes to the WBCCI can only occur at the WBCCI. The WBCCI does not use any data here. They don't care about any of the polls here and my unit doesn't even play here. So accept it or not, ranting about a name change to the WBCCI here will not make any difference there.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

*Results! An awesome unit of measure. Often harsh. Always fair.
I think the intention in so very many threads about WBCCI including those dating back years in time, is to share information, ideas and opinions with each other. This forum is a gathering place for Airstreamers. There are quite a number of forum members that have geniune interest in this as well as the polls. We have at least two recent polls on the WBCCI name change started by current moderators, Stephanie Roberts and Janet. Are you fashioning your criticism against the subject, or against the individual here?
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Old 03-09-2006, 08:41 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideOut
Karma is intended for members to voice opinions, positive AND negative. "Approve" (agree) or "Diasapprove" (disagree)...while most members only dole out postitive, some do occaisionaly voice disagreement too. That's how it works ~
BTW, I forgot to mention that "positive" karma has twice the value of "negative" karma. The value of a member's karma is defined here, post #2.

Shari
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Old 03-09-2006, 08:57 PM   #50
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hi folks......

wow i sure agree with what the mods are saying here....thank you.

bcup....seems that whenever someone disagrees with you they are part of the conspiracy or have a vested interest in the name change.....and here on the forums neither of those things are true....

and the mention of negative karma is laughable......a guess it does go around bud....i only send love....

many of the wb delegates who have posted on the issue only do so rarely...because they get less than civil replies....and usually not the sort of thing normal people would say face to face....

having a thick skin is key to forum survival...and these folks just don't care....and move on.....so it's our loss from their future contributions.....

sure it's hard to get info on an issue that predates joining or for other reasons isn't discussed much...till now.....but you assume this issue is a huge deal and a big controversy....and i honestly don't think it is......and frankly if lots of folks joined the wb days before the big vote.....can they say "stop, stop.....we need time to think"

as we all try to remember.......it's just camping.......and as noted already, the wbcci has always been about travel and the trip....not the club name.

sure lots of airstream folks hang here but most seem not to enjoy these wb name issue threads.......

and the wb has a web site.......i've read only a very few posts there pro or con.....would it not make sense to take the fight there? or at least try there?

in the spirit of trying to help you and 65gt and who ever else hopes to turn this vote a round......
here is a suggestion......
offered sincerely.....

1. compose a letter with the position you'd like to promote....maybe you AND gt each do this...
2. get out the wb directory and highlight 10 or 20 or 30 members
3. address envelopes to these members......this is less than 20$ out of your pockets...
4. include with the letters a plea that if they agree with your position.....you need them to copy and mail the letter to 10 more members.......and so on...


now i realize this looks like a chain letter and it is sort of.....but if only HALF of the folks you post to AGREE with your position.....and promote the effort to block the vote/name/whatever......

you will have a much larger effective support group for the issue.....and will be doing something to actually affect your issue......of course if very few members care or are against the name change......well.....so be it. you need to communicate with the folks that will cast votes......and in a volume that isn't reading this......

now back to your regular programing....

cheers
2air'
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Old 03-09-2006, 10:22 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Action
And this is not the place to make changes to the WBCCI. Talk about it. Discuss it. Swap ideas about it. Rant about it. But based on results*, this is not the WBCCI and the WBCCI probably doesn't care about the vast majority of forum users that are not members of the WBCCI. Changes to the WBCCI can only occur at the WBCCI. The WBCCI does not use any data here. They don't care about any of the polls here and my unit doesn't even play here. So accept it or not, ranting about a name change to the WBCCI here will not make any difference there.
Oh, I misunderstood - I thought that was the impetus for change. My mistake. You are right - WBCCI can't be changed.

And thus - through these forums no trailer can be repaired, no rally can be held, no idea expanded.
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Old 03-09-2006, 10:34 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested
I think the intention in so very many threads about WBCCI including those dating back years in time, is to share information, ideas and opinions with each other. This forum is a gathering place for Airstreamers. There are quite a number of forum members that have geniune interest in this as well as the polls. We have at least two recent polls on the WBCCI name change started by current moderators, Stephanie Roberts and Janet. Are you fashioning your criticism against the subject, or against the individual here?

I am all for an exchange of ideas. I am all for polls and opinions.

When it has been stated multiple times by same people, I define that as pot stirring looking for a reaction. Not any specific reaction just a reaction. There is little point in it. It does nothing to propel the cause it just gets people excited. And at this point it may be getting people excited not to join the WBBCI. Or leave this forum or just lurk because they don't want to be involved with that kind of excitement. They just want to go camping with a neat RV.

So to answer the Q. I am not criticising, complaining or condeming I just want to point out that real change is not gonna happen here. This is not the WBCCI. (If someone were passionate about doing something) Cause a great idea just gets lonely with out ACTION! And at this time I believe all points have been made at this place called the Airstream Forums. To restate it or to discuss it more is silly. (That is my personal opinion) To really make change from the direction that the WBCCI is going, someone actually has to get off their 'puter and get into the WBCCI. This is my suggestion. It's that old saying "Talk is cheap"

And if one doesn't want the change and wants to rant about it - rock on! Just don't expect anything to change to your view point.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

And for what it's worth, I would rather not see the name change. I am just not that passionate about it. I'd rather spend my energy travelling. Let the others play name games.
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Old 03-09-2006, 10:39 PM   #53
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Quote:
and the wb has a web site.......i've read only a very few posts there pro or con.....would it not make sense to take the fight there? or at least try there?
Well this site is also owned by THOR now so this is actually the perfect place. [quote]From NETWORK SOLUTIONS web site, domain name info:
airstreamforums.com

Registrant:
Thor Tech, Inc.
419 W. Pike St.
Jackson Center, OH 45334-0629
US,/quote]

Quote:
in the spirit of trying to help you and 65gt and who ever else hopes to turn this vote a round......
here is a suggestion......
offered sincerely.....
1. compose a letter with the position you'd like to promote....maybe you AND gt each do this...
2. get out the wb directory and highlight 10 or 20 or 30 members
3. address envelopes to these members......this is less than 20$ out of your pockets...
4. include with the letters a plea that if they agree with your position.....you need them to copy and mail the letter to 10 more members.......and so on...
Thanks for the advice. But based on my experience in the advertizing and marketing industry, that will not work for this situation. And frankly, based on your past posts to not only myself and others who do not support the name change - I seriously doubt that this advice is offered in the spirit of helping.

People are still questioning this name change and if they are met with resstance when the do - they will run away from the issue so I want to be sure that anybody who questions are not treated like lemmings and forced off the clif. There is another choice and voting NO is the more reasonable choice to make on this issue.
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Old 03-09-2006, 10:44 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
Oh, I misunderstood - I thought that was the impetus for change. My mistake. You are right - WBCCI can't be changed.

And thus - through these forums no trailer can be repaired, no rally can be held, no idea expanded.

You know Buttercup, I will defend your privilage to express your opinion on the forum as long as you stay within the rules. No matter how wrong I believe your statements to be.

It is also my belief that anything is possible. However the sad truth to the matter is nothing is accomplished unless someone does something.

Trailers get repaired because some one takes action
Rallys get held because some one takes action

So my only Q for you is when are you going to do something that makes a difference?
When is your passion going to move you to follow through with your opinions on the name change?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
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Old 03-09-2006, 10:47 PM   #55
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Questions: What was the ORIGINAL, complete motion, reguarding the name change? How is that being honored?
Observation: Looks like a straight 'up or down' ballot.... vote yes this way, vote no. Simple. That's it.
They are not asking your opinion here, they are calling for a specific vote!
Don't like it? Vote no and make them go back to drawing board.
So far, in all of this, I have seen nothing that will cause me to join and part with my money. I cannot see the value, and don't need to be involved in a non issue for me.
Direct your delegates how you or your unit wants the vote cast, and stick with it.
Looks like at this point the only thing you can do is vote it down and begin anew if you really feel that need.
Lots of strang and durm being wated here, folks.

Elizabeth in Iowa
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Old 03-09-2006, 10:55 PM   #56
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Quote:
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Well this site is also owned by THOR now so this is actually the perfect place......

Just to clear this up.. While Thor has rights to the domain name they do not own this site or the content contained here. This site is privately owned, by one individual. The site could be migrated to a new URL, new servers, heck - even sold to a new owner... but Thor does not control, govern or otherwise have input here.

Last year they sent out nasty-grams to many businesses using the word Airstream in their titles. Some businesses changed their names e.g. Airstream Dreams became Vintage trailer supply. Others, like this one, wishing to keep it's name chose different paths.
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