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Old 07-01-2007, 01:07 AM   #57
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Wish I could. I am listening to simulcasts and archives in Michigan so very glad you made such a great showing of support in Perry. Great job! Metro NY is a pretty cool unit. Saw pictures of the last rally and have met Joe at the January IBT and Leo in Salem. Fun times I am SURE! Say hi for me.
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Old 07-01-2007, 06:45 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT6921
Hey Kristine - I don't know all the details of this effort - I have stayed away from it - cause I can fly opinions with the best of them. But I would like to think that this whole thing was not just about a few executive members. That it went well beyond just the WBCCI and was most likely somesort of pushing from the Thor wings of power. Might even be something along the lines of using IBT as pawns possibly and the WBCCI membership base as the source for acceptance of the fact that Airstream is owned by THOR and thus the "club" should be owned by THOR as well - possibly.....

It is hard to keep all the facts straight over the months of development and communication and lack there of, rumours, conjectures (including mine above) The fact remains that WBCCI is an Airstream only Club. With a prerequisit for membership being you own an Airstream RV product.

The only way for this to end is to end the "Airstream" product completely and that is NOT going to happen. Thor will have to accept that the Division of Airstream is sole entity. Product marketing and product lines will change yearly - for primarily SALES not members! It is the clubs responsiblity to recruit and RETAIN its members - through the efforts of it's members however diversified they may be, and the dynamics of the total club.

See now I got out that soap box again geesssss....

The saying be a part of the problem or the solution is a choice - make a choice. Find out what you want to get out of the club and go get it. It may take a single Rally or it may take several years of searching....

I was very glad to see todays results - and there were a few more plusses to the club as a result. The behind the scenes supporters should once again be commended for their committment to this 52 year old foundation!

Kristine I hope you will find your niche within the Club - you have a voice and some good input - don't be discouraged.
I too want to believe all that you have posted here about Thor having more to do with this than we realize. I have also been trying not to get too verbal about things and to see both sides of what is happening before sharing my thoughts, but it is hard to do (both me not being verbal and seeing both sides!) when we don't really have all the facts.

I agree that it is up to the club to obtain and retain the members, but not with a name change or by allowing other camper brands into the club. There seems like so many other ways to go about this that have not even been attempted yet and that really bothers be.

Thank you for your encouragement and may our camping adventures one day meet.

Kristine
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Old 07-01-2007, 07:52 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streamer23
Is it possible that in your unit the side with the majority swings the rest of the votes?
Your unit has 22 members...20 yes and 2 no,so the yes side having the majority carried all 22 votes.
I spoke with an officer of our unit, and that seems to be what happened to us.
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Old 07-01-2007, 08:27 AM   #60
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It works that way in a lot of units...defined in the local units constitution or bylaws...(not sure which). But yeah, its not a pure democracy. Kind of like how we elect the President (of the U.S). electoral votes...delegates, etc...NOT by "popular vote".
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Old 07-01-2007, 08:56 AM   #61
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Is that when the entire units' votes are cast as a block? That certainly lends more votes over to one side and possibly an advantage over the units that represent the count. I think all unit votes should be collected and tabulated similarly for the International roster. I still am hoping to see one member one vote and members that don't vote don't get their vote cast for them and MALs also having a vote in the future.

I would like to know how many actual members voted and how many did not. Making voting issues known well in advance and all positions represented in our media the Blue Beret as well as from the units (and did I hear some units did not receive communications that should or were sent out but not received?) and simple procedures for submitting a vote not contingent upon attendance of a particular meeting or rally needs to be implimented. Also need to get the votes from the units to International when no delegate is able to attend the International Rally from their area. Then we need to campaign to get members to exercise their vote.
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Old 07-01-2007, 08:57 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck
It works that way in a lot of units...defined in the local units constitution or bylaws...(not sure which). But yeah, its not a pure democracy. Kind of like how we elect the President (of the U.S). electoral votes...delegates, etc...NOT by "popular vote".
It may work that way in some units, but it is wrong. A delegate is required to report the vote of the members, not to vote based on majority rules. The club by laws are very clear on this. It may seem like a small point, but look at it this way:
If a unit has 33 members and the vote is 18 yes and 15 no and they use the majority rule they would vote 33 yes. Since changes require a 2/3 majority the members voted against the change but the unit voted for it. IMO the entire delegate proccess is flawed. In the case of this years vote, 14 units did not have a delegate present to vote. Why do the hundreds of members of these units have no say on matters like this?
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Old 07-01-2007, 09:28 AM   #63
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The block vote is apparently what happened in my former unit. I estimated there were roughly 10-12 members present when the issue was brought up and voted on, yet all 50+ unit votes were counted in favor of the amendment. According to their by-laws, it may have been procedurally correct, but it still doesn't seem right.

No notice was given to the general unit membership about the issue, or impending vote. Last year, they mailed out ballots for the name change issue, so I expected no less this year on the motor home amendment. I already knew about it and was prepared to voice my opinion, and cast a no vote, but then found out about the final results of the voting in our newsletter. It won't happen again (to me) in the future, because I transferred to a unit that counts all of its members votes. If block voting and this type of questionable tactic is permitted in the future, there can never be an accurate representation of the membership.
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Old 07-01-2007, 09:28 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy
Could it be that they not only want to be able to remain in the club, but that they want to be able to remain as officers in the club? If the article you mention above lets them stay as members then what is it they were really seeking?
If I got a new Class A MOHO to drive for two years for free, then had the option of buying it 'used' at a greatly reduced price, why NOT be an officer! That is what they seek!
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Old 07-01-2007, 10:42 AM   #65
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If I got a new Class A MOHO to drive for two years for free, then had the option of buying it 'used' at a greatly reduced price, why NOT be an officer!
Is Thor or WBCCI still going to provide new MOHOs for the officers after the vote?
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Old 07-01-2007, 10:47 AM   #66
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Good question. I would think that perk had more than a little to do with driving the bus on the last motion.
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Old 07-01-2007, 12:02 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azflycaster
In the case of this years vote, 14 units did not have a delegate present to vote. Why do the hundreds of members of these units have no say on matters like this?
This is part of what needs changing. Many units operate with the same mindset. If you aren't at the rally where the meeting occurs, you don't get a vote. That's why here in St. Louis 12, or so folks controled 49 votes that were cast at the International. This is fundamentally wrong.

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Old 07-01-2007, 12:15 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcanavera
This is part of what needs changing. Many units operate with the same mindset. If you aren't at the rally where the meeting occurs, you don't get a vote. That's why here in St. Louis 12, or so folks controled 49 votes that were cast at the International. This is fundamentally wrong.

Jack
That piece will have to be "fixed" at the local unit level. What I would suggest to members who do not like the way their unit operates is to push for a change at the unit level. If the unit does not want to listen, shop around for a unit that will listen.
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Old 07-01-2007, 12:43 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested
Is that when the entire units' votes are cast as a block? That certainly lends more votes over to one side and possibly an advantage over the units that represent the count. I think all unit votes should be collected and tabulated similarly for the International roster. I still am hoping to see one member one vote and members that don't vote don't get their vote cast for them and MALs also having a vote in the future.

I would like to know how many actual members voted and how many did not. Making voting issues known well in advance and all positions represented in our media the Blue Beret as well as from the units (and did I hear some units did not receive communications that should or were sent out but not received?) and simple procedures for submitting a vote not contingent upon attendance of a particular meeting or rally needs to be implimented. Also need to get the votes from the units to International when no delegate is able to attend the International Rally from their area. Then we need to campaign to get members to exercise their vote.

It seems that several people have stated their unit did not identify, discuss or hold a vote on the Motorhome issue. We can speak for the Sierra Nevada Unit as new active members who ar enot on the SNU Board; their monthly newsletter noted that the Motorhome issue would be discussed and voted on at their April rally which was a reasonable travel distance for many of their members how might only drop in for the discussion and vote. Four or five members did infact drop in for that purpose and other members traveled in excess of 450 miles for the rally (primarily) and the vote (secondary).
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Old 07-01-2007, 12:53 PM   #70
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Wow this is great news!

What redeems my faith in the process is that when I looked at hour our unit president voted he did what he promised. We had 33% against this motion and that is how he voted.

Now it will be interesting to see in what form this resurfaces!!!
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