MOHO Issue does NOT pass.

[SilverRanger]

Originally Posted by GT6921

Along with the non attending units to be eligible to cast their votes too.
Same structure for local should be for Regional (delegate) level.

Perhaps a mechanism could be developed to ensure all unit members have their vote counted. I'm still perplexed as to how the delegate from my former unit was able to cast my vote as a yes, when I was never notified of the intent to vote, afforded the opportunity to vote, or comment on the proposed amendment change. While I was listening to and recording the votes at the delegates meeting today, I noted that some other units voted unanimously for the amendment change, and wondered if it really was an accurate representation of their unit. In fact, my neighbor at the rally told me the exact same thing occured in his unit. They voted on the issue without notifying the majority of the unit membership. At any rate, today's vote proved the "vocal minority" was actually the majority.

I hope this makes sense. I started happy hour early today.

[mistral blue]

Originally Posted by SilverRanger

Perhaps a mechanism could be developed to ensure all unit members have their vote counted. I'm still perplexed as to how the delegate from my former unit was able to cast my vote as a yes, when I was never notified of the intent to vote, afforded the opportunity to vote, or comment on the proposed amendment change. While I was listening to and recording the votes at the delegates meeting today, I noted that some other units voted unanimously for the amendment change, and wondered if it really was an accurate representation of their unit. In fact, my neighbor at the rally told me the exact same thing occured in his unit. They voted on the issue without notifying the majority of the unit membership. At any rate, today's vote proved the "vocal minority" was actually the majority.

I hope this makes sense. I started happy hour early today.

Does your unit use "block" voting?

[05ModPod]

Originally Posted by Eddy

Chuck,

I don't agree with the grandfather clause. Sorry, but it just opens a can of worms, serves a select few, and opens the door for the next group of people who might be faced with having to leave the club to expect similar privileges.....

Kristine

You might want to check out page 25 Article VI Sec2. C. Regular Member - this in itself is a grandfathering clause relating to a members who may or may not own a TT or MOHO....Why would this be any different to the above grandfathering? - any insite??

I tend to agree with you on the "choices" and the understanding but in reality it does not always work that way

some of these members we are talking about have been in the "Club" since their first ever family camping airstream purchase - they deserve a "privilage" and this club and it's membership should respect it to. Like founding members - they are the sustinance of the club and what we should be building our future to retain.

[azflycaster]

I do not think that alot of people understand how the vote should be done. Each unit has it in thier constitution how the unit will vote. With that in mind the unit is supposed to take the percentages of that vote and apply them to the number of members in the unit. If your unit has 100 members but only 50 vote you would multiply the acutual vote by 2. That is, a 20 - 30 vote would be 40 - 60 at the delegate meeting.

I think it is important for every member to understand how the unit works. If you have questions, ask. If you were not informed of the vote, find out why.

[05ModPod]

Originally Posted by azflycaster

I do not think that alot of people understand how the vote should be done. Each unit has it in thier constitution how the unit will vote. With that in mind the unit is supposed to take the percentages of that vote and apply them to the number of members in the unit. If your unit has 100 members but only 50 vote you would multiply the acutual vote by 2. That is, a 20 - 30 vote would be 40 - 60 at the delegate meeting.

I think it is important for every member to understand how the unit works. If you have questions, ask. If you were not informed of the vote, find out why.

I was under the impression that a lot of units changed this process after it came to light during the name change voting fiasco. And now those who do not vote their vote is cast as an abstension - not a percentage to the result of a units vote?

If some units have not changed that method then perhaps that is a good start for the region communication efforts - to educate their NEW unit Presidents -who really are not new as most will have served several yearly terms in positions working up to the presidency....

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by wheel interested

I'm anxious to see 1m1v (one member one vote) go ahead and the business meetings be divorced from rallies like church and state. We can do this more efficiently online and by mail and if needed proxy.

Our numbers may dwindle and that is the challenge to update the WBCCI and make it fun for new and young. But it reamins a 52 year old club and that is always worth saving. Perhaps we need to pull in our spending belts a notch. We have avid Airstreamers who would never consider leaving because we are an Airstream club. That has been preserved. It is not about friends, because friends will stay with you but it is about the club identity.

I agree that you shouldn't lose friends because you decide to purchase a different brand of camper. I know we have several friends who do not have Airstreams and we still camp with them. There are many, many ways to increase our membership and it could start with simply learning to keep the members we presently have.

[azflycaster]

Here is the bylaw that covers the unit vote.

ARTICLE XVII
DELEGATE VOTING
Sec. 1 A delegate to the annual meeting shall cast the total entitled votes of the constituent unit as determined by a vote of the regular and members present and voting at a regular or special meeting called for that purpose, with such vote expressed as a percentage of the votes for or against and the results applied to the total entitled regular member vote count of the unit. Exact half votes will be cast as halves and fractional votes of more or less than half will be rounded to the nearest whole number. Except that a delegate may cast the total entitled vote of the constituent unit in whatever manner he determines proper on any matter which has not been previously determined by a vote of the constituent unit.

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by mistral blue

They had no idea what to do when Leo was nominated from the floor. You'll see a Constitutional amendment to address cumulative voting in the not too distant future. He let them, and the whole assemblage, off the hook when he and Joe Colao withdrew the nomination.

Even after they came back from break I could hear them discussing how the vote would have to have been done when "3 people are running for only 2 slots." They had no idea how to handle this.

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by GT6921

You might want to check out page 25 Article VI Sec2. C. Regular Member - this in itself is a grandfathering clause relating to a members who may or may not own a TT or MOHO....Why would this be any different to the above grandfathering? - any insite??

I tend to agree with you on the "choices" and the understanding but in reality it does not always work that way

some of these members we are talking about have been in the "Club" since their first ever family camping airstream purchase - they deserve a "privilage" and this club and it's membership should respect it to. Like founding members - they are the sustinance of the club and what we should be building our future to retain.

I'll have to check out that information. I hadn't heard that it was already somewhat already established, but then if that is the case then why were they claiming a loss of membership should these members buy an SOB? That was a very heavy push in swaying this proposed amendment.

I do not wish to deny anyone that respect, but I think they are looking for more than that. Could it be that they not only want to be able to remain in the club, but that they want to be able to remain as officers in the club? If the article you mention above lets them stay as members then what is it they were really seeking?

Also, as mentioned, they do have alternatives. They could haul a small TT behind their brand new Mandalay or Four Winds and still be members, couldn't they?

[05ModPod]

So no amendment came forth last year to correct a blatant flaw in the casting of votes.

I guess the action within the same article Except that a delegate may cast the total entitled vote of the constituent unit in whatever manner he determines proper on any matter which has not been previously determined by a vote of the constituent unit. is what many units are exercising instead.

But then we may never know unless an explanation is provided by each delegate -

eg.like Ontario unit with 177 no votes - somehow I can not believe that all 177 members showed up to the unit meeting to cast their vote. However after I left I did see that they passed a motion that members could vote by mail on International issues. So they could have all had the opporutnity to cast their vote whether they attended or not this year.

This does not correct the problem of those who do not wish to exercise their vote - are those votes still being included in many units as the above article explains.

Another excellent area to address - the voice of the member and how it is exercised - should a member not have a right to cast or NOT cast their vote too. Member voting member classes and dues all go hand in hand.

[05ModPod]

Originally Posted by Eddy

...... Could it be that they not only want to be able to remain in the club, but that they want to be able to remain as officers in the club? If the article you mention above lets them stay as members then what is it they were really seeking?

Also, as mentioned, they do have alternatives. They could haul a small TT behind their brand new Mandalay or Four Winds and still be members, couldn't they?

Hey Kristine - I don't know all the details of this effort - I have stayed away from it - cause I can fly opinions with the best of them. But I would like to think that this whole thing was not just about a few executive members. That it went well beyond just the WBCCI and was most likely somesort of pushing from the Thor wings of power. Might even be something along the lines of using IBT as pawns possibly and the WBCCI membership base as the source for acceptance of the fact that Airstream is owned by THOR and thus the "club" should be owned by THOR as well - possibly.....

It is hard to keep all the facts straight over the months of development and communication and lack there of, rumours, conjectures (including mine above) The fact remains that WBCCI is an Airstream only Club. With a prerequisit for membership being you own an Airstream RV product.

The only way for this to end is to end the "Airstream" product completely and that is NOT going to happen. Thor will have to accept that the Division of Airstream is sole entity. Product marketing and product lines will change yearly - for primarily SALES not members! It is the clubs responsiblity to recruit and RETAIN its members - through the efforts of it's members however diversified they may be, and the dynamics of the total club.

See now I got out that soap box again geesssss....

The saying be a part of the problem or the solution is a choice - make a choice. Find out what you want to get out of the club and go get it. It may take a single Rally or it may take several years of searching....

I was very glad to see todays results - and there were a few more plusses to the club as a result. The behind the scenes supporters should once again be commended for their committment to this 52 year old foundation!

Kristine I hope you will find your niche within the Club - you have a voice and some good input - don't be discouraged.

[grannyred]

Just reviewed the vote tally sheet. our unit president did not give a correct unit vote tally. there were 2 "no" votes in our unit but the president only voiced the "yes" votes. guess we will have a talk when he returns from perry.

[streamer23]

Originally Posted by grannyred

Just reviewed the vote tally sheet. our unit president did not give a correct unit vote tally. there were 2 "no" votes in our unit but the president only voiced the "yes" votes. guess we will have a talk when he returns from perry.

Is it possible that in your unit the side with the majority swings the rest of the votes?
Your unit has 22 members...20 yes and 2 no,so the yes side having the majority carried all 22 votes.

[LI Pets]

My first International, It was interesting to see the whole thing work, 4 of us from the NY Metro had an opp to voice our thoughts to the "Lawrence Welk" boaaaard, I know they didn't like my comments because Don S when I was done said let's talk about what in germain to the motion.

The true colors slipped thru when Don S said after the motion was defeated something to the effect don't be so happy not having passed this this defeat will not fix what's wrong with the declining membership.

That's right perhaps if our OLD boys club could see the forest they could have fixed things.
Bottom line is the leadership failed big time.

We need new YOUNGER blood in leadership, keep an eye out for Pete Daniels and Leo Garvey, they may be what the doctor ordered.

Maybe no one should be allowed to serve over a certain age?

One of them said " we're starting to get web sites going for the each unit"

STARTING TO? Hello you should have done that 10 years ago guys!

Here's a great one from Don S, the recorded meetings will be archived for 30 days.

Then I guess they go into hiding?
I thought archives were for a looong time.

Download them when they come out on Monday, also no one is allowed to reproduce them.

PS: there's no such rule!

What ever happened to freedom of speech?

-----

We do need to get this membership up, look at the Harley club, the Corvette clubs their membership is booming lets come up with ways to recruit members.

[wheel interested]

was that you? Metro NY sure was visible. You said they were not keeping up with the times and that is the cause of declining membership and need to move into the internet and out of the Lawrence welk attitude and AS was using the WBCCI like a pawn. I thought you were spot on. Leo and Joe wowed me too. Who was the 4th speaker from MetNY?

[LI Pets]

Hi, yes that was me!

The 4th person was Tom, he spoke about how the dealer he bought his from, Colonial in NJ, never told him about WBCCI.

The NY Metro unit really talks about these issues and are very interested in saving the WBCCI from it's downward spiral in membership.

Stop by say hello I'm in the back across from vintage, red 1 on a group of three.

[wheel interested]

Wish I could. I am listening to simulcasts and archives in Michigan so very glad you made such a great showing of support in Perry. Great job! Metro NY is a pretty cool unit. Saw pictures of the last rally and have met Joe at the January IBT and Leo in Salem. Fun times I am SURE! Say hi for me.

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by GT6921

Hey Kristine - I don't know all the details of this effort - I have stayed away from it - cause I can fly opinions with the best of them. But I would like to think that this whole thing was not just about a few executive members. That it went well beyond just the WBCCI and was most likely somesort of pushing from the Thor wings of power. Might even be something along the lines of using IBT as pawns possibly and the WBCCI membership base as the source for acceptance of the fact that Airstream is owned by THOR and thus the "club" should be owned by THOR as well - possibly.....

It is hard to keep all the facts straight over the months of development and communication and lack there of, rumours, conjectures (including mine above) The fact remains that WBCCI is an Airstream only Club. With a prerequisit for membership being you own an Airstream RV product.

The only way for this to end is to end the "Airstream" product completely and that is NOT going to happen. Thor will have to accept that the Division of Airstream is sole entity. Product marketing and product lines will change yearly - for primarily SALES not members! It is the clubs responsiblity to recruit and RETAIN its members - through the efforts of it's members however diversified they may be, and the dynamics of the total club.

See now I got out that soap box again geesssss....

The saying be a part of the problem or the solution is a choice - make a choice. Find out what you want to get out of the club and go get it. It may take a single Rally or it may take several years of searching....

I was very glad to see todays results - and there were a few more plusses to the club as a result. The behind the scenes supporters should once again be commended for their committment to this 52 year old foundation!

Kristine I hope you will find your niche within the Club - you have a voice and some good input - don't be discouraged.

I too want to believe all that you have posted here about Thor having more to do with this than we realize. I have also been trying not to get too verbal about things and to see both sides of what is happening before sharing my thoughts, but it is hard to do (both me not being verbal and seeing both sides!) when we don't really have all the facts.

I agree that it is up to the club to obtain and retain the members, but not with a name change or by allowing other camper brands into the club. There seems like so many other ways to go about this that have not even been attempted yet and that really bothers be.

Thank you for your encouragement and may our camping adventures one day meet.

Kristine

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by streamer23

Is it possible that in your unit the side with the majority swings the rest of the votes?
Your unit has 22 members...20 yes and 2 no,so the yes side having the majority carried all 22 votes.

I spoke with an officer of our unit, and that seems to be what happened to us.

[Chuck]

It works that way in a lot of units...defined in the local units constitution or bylaws...(not sure which). But yeah, its not a pure democracy. Kind of like how we elect the President (of the U.S). electoral votes...delegates, etc...NOT by "popular vote".