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Old 01-22-2007, 11:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
I can tell you Bob that most of the MALs are so because there is either a poorlly foormed unit or no unit near them that can properly serve them. And rather than join a poorly functioning unit or one that is troo far away, they elect to be a MAL.
In addition to Buttercup's explanation...a MAL may not have enough information about WBCCi units to make an informed decision and does not want to commit without a reasonable chance of the right choice.
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Old 01-23-2007, 12:12 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE
In addition to Buttercup's explanation...a MAL may not have enough information about WBCCi units to make an informed decision and does not want to commit without a reasonable chance of the right choice.
That is why we started as MAL, did not know the purpose of a unit and too many in California to figure out which one to join. However, one rally, the 2003 VAC rally in Santa Maria, made our decision and we are pleased.

Bill
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Old 01-23-2007, 12:45 AM   #17
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It would be best IMHO if all MALS joined the nearest Unit to become a part of the voting process. If many Units opposed this it would be better.

As a former MAL I'd suggest that you current MALS check with your friends and see what they have to say about their Units. Seems like an easy way to find a fit.
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Old 01-23-2007, 02:31 PM   #18
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Redistricting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goin camping
It would be best IMHO if all MALS joined the nearest Unit to become a part of the voting process. If many Units opposed this it would be better.

As a former MAL I'd suggest that you current MALS check with your friends and see what they have to say about their Units. Seems like an easy way to find a fit.
Would they be better off if they joined the WDCU as opposed to a different unit? Would their vote be more meaningful regarding the proposed Constitutional amendment if they joined a 1M1V unit?
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Old 01-23-2007, 02:37 PM   #19
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1M1V units are the best way to guarentee that your vote counts. Units that throw the weight of the entire unit towards the majority only ensure that not all of its members have a say. While this may be advantageous for some positions, it is not fair to everyone.
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Old 01-23-2007, 02:54 PM   #20
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Which begs the question....

Do we know which units are 1M1V?
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Old 01-23-2007, 02:55 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by mistral blue
Would they be better off if they joined the WDCU as opposed to a different unit? Would their vote be more meaningful regarding the proposed Constitutional amendment if they joined a 1M1V unit?
I would think the goal would be to have as many Units as possible voicing a negative vote. One big Unit voting no does not carry the same mandate as one large Unit and 65 small ones.

I would encurage you all to find the smallest drying up Units you can and join up and start getting your votes lined up. A dying Unit is usually a lot more agreeable than a thriving one. Because you and your friends are offering them existance and validation. These folks just like you want to camp and have fun. Be the "New Blood" that keeps them alive and convince them to your way of thinking.


P.S. To me "meaningfull" means successfull.
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Old 01-23-2007, 03:08 PM   #22
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Bottom line, 2/3 of the votes are needed to pass this amendment to our Constitution. How it gets defeated is not as important to me. That doesn't mean I'm against more units voting no. The more the merrier! I just want to get the job done right now. Pumping new blood into a dying unit is a fantastic way of making a difference! Changing their antiquated bylaws and Constitution to one that recognizes 1M1V will go a loooooong way in reviving the WBCCI. A wiser choice at this point if you want your vote to truly count, I'm afraid, is to find a 1M1V unit.
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Old 01-23-2007, 06:47 PM   #23
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MB,

You are starting to sound like a Save Wally supporter. You better be careful. That can get you into trouble with some folks here!
Love to see your spirit.
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Old 01-23-2007, 07:33 PM   #24
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All Units are one member one vote.

There has been no circumstance yet produced that illustrate a problem with the current mechanisms that could be solved by eliminating the affiliate member (MAL) class. This implies that the 1M1V issue is constructed and contrived and not tied to real issues.

The proposal does not address the core reasons for a Unit structure in regards to the mission and purpose of the club.

Lou, I think you missed the point of my question.

There are also several unsuported facts being tossed out as a given that should be highly suspect. Generalizations about a group should never be made flipantly as they are in this discussion unless there is good measure to support them.

Also keep in mind that these issues involve an extremely small portion of the total membership. From what I can tell, it is much less than 1% of the membership that even thinks it worth enough to even show up in these discussions.
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Old 01-23-2007, 07:38 PM   #25
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The Check is in the Mail!

I filled out the WDCU membership application today and dropped it in the mail along with a check for $1. Looking forward to voting on the upcoming issues. Also looking forward to attending the Cherry Blossom Rally in 2008. (can't make it to the rally this year)

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Old 01-23-2007, 08:08 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvestysly
I filled out the WDCU membership application today and dropped it in the mail along with a check for $1. Looking forward to voting on the upcoming issues. Also looking forward to attending the Cherry Blossom Rally in 2008. (can't make it to the rally this year)

Lucius
Good for you!!! We are right behind you. We contacted WBCCI HQ and asked what we needed to do to get a specific number for our '54 which has the old ghosted numbers 128 still on her. Kimber (now doing business as WALLY 54 on the forums here) found the number 11281 free (get it? #128). HQ stated that if we wanted that number we should sign up another membership as multiple numbers are not handed out to single memberships. So if the WDCU will have us (check's in the mail) we will be calling that home for our 54 Cruiser.
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Old 01-23-2007, 08:48 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Leipper
What is SaveWally in terms of being able to provide an unqualified and total 'support'? If it is one person, shouldn't that person speak directly? If more than one person, shouldn't there be some established means with accountability to the larger community to stake out such a position so that larger community can know its value?

My understanding is that SaveWally is an advocacy website. A website is a communications media, not a voting entity. For true accountability, there needs to be transparency to the source of the message being conveyed.

If there is a membership and the assertion of support is to reflect that membership, then the demands of 'one member one vote' means that each member should knowing be entering into a relationship where they agree to be bound by certain rules about how their voice is to be represented. It does not mean for one or two people to undertake pretentions to convey with absolute authority the preferences of their subscriber list.

This does not even begin to get into the basic responsibilities of voter education - people fully understanding the issues involved and the implications of a decision.

People can join WBCCI as a MAL in order to avoid being involved in the politics much as people could subscribe to SaveWally just to be informed about politics.

This is why organizations incorporate or otherwise prepare rules of behavior and procedure. It is why they elect certain individuals to represent them. It is why unelected representation is not considered a good thing.

What Paul suggests is a way for someone who joined as MAL without realizing what that status was to be able to change their minds. If they want to become politically involved, that might be a good thing. But it has its hazards as well.
(1)I have only been a member of Save Wally for 24 hours.
(2)IMHO, Save Wally is not one person.
(3)I do not understand your question, "If more than one person, shouldn't there be some established means with accountability to the larger community to stake out such a position so that larger community can know its value?" Could you please rephrase that? I've read it a few times and retyped it just now and I still don't quite get it. Thank you.
(4)I agree with paragraph #2 in its entirety.
(5)There is in fact a membership and Buttercup's assertion was, I think, intended to reflect that membership.
(6)Point well taken Bryan about the demands of 1M1V. Perhaps Buttercup in his zeal should have said, "I support it 100% and I'm sure the rest of the membership will too." (FWIW, I support it 100%)
(7)I do think, however, that Save Wally has done a remarkably fine job regarding voter education. It has been my pleasant experience that Save Wally goes out of its way to help people understand the issues involved and the implications of a decision.
(8)I have no quibble with the rest of this post.
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Old 01-23-2007, 09:07 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leipper
All Units are one member one vote.

There has been no circumstance yet produced that illustrate a problem with the current mechanisms that could be solved by eliminating the affiliate member (MAL) class. This implies that the 1M1V issue is constructed and contrived and not tied to real issues.

The proposal does not address the core reasons for a Unit structure in regards to the mission and purpose of the club.

Lou, I think you missed the point of my question.

There are also several unsuported facts being tossed out as a given that should be highly suspect. Generalizations about a group should never be made flipantly as they are in this discussion unless there is good measure to support them.

Also keep in mind that these issues involve an extremely small portion of the total membership. From what I can tell, it is much less than 1% of the membership that even thinks it worth enough to even show up in these discussions.
Bryan,

"All units are one member one vote" is simply not true. I think we all know that. I truly hope you were saying this tongue in cheek. Just to provoke.

I don't think anyone here has asked for the elimination of the MAL! If they have, I have yet to see it. So once again, I think you're just trying to stir the pot, you rabble rouser, in orderto get Buttercup and 65GT agitated again. IMHO, 1M1V is the fairest way of dealing with all of the major issues the WBCCI faces. It's not just some "contrivance" pulled out of the ether to combat some perceived evil foe. 1M1V is not some strategic move on a game board. IMO, it's a fair and just way of determining what the members of WBCCI want.

As far as "unsupported facts" I'd like to know to what you are referring exactly. I agree that generalizations can be extremely dangerous and I am probably just as guilty as everyone else in that regard. When I do make a lazy and flip generalization I should be called to task. I believe it will only help me grow as a person and become more humble. A little humility is a good thing every once in a while, wouldn't you agree?

Now as far as your assertion that these issues involve "an extremely small portion of the total membership", I couldn't disagree with you more. True, only a small minority of the WBCCI visits this forum, but you don't seriously think that these issues don't affect the ENTIRE club do you?!?
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