July 5th IBT Seminar and Meeting Simulcast

[mistral blue]

Originally Posted by 66Overlander

There is no way that 13 of 14 Units passed that motion.

Do you know this for a fact?

[wkerfoot]

Originally Posted by mistral blue

Do you know this for a fact?

Why 13 of 14 units when the region has 15 units. That fact raises questions to me about the validity of the region 4 president's statements.

Bill

[RickDavis]

Originally Posted by mistral blue

Do you know this for a fact?

At this point no one in region 4 has posted anything about their unit voting for it, or even being aware of it. I think one unit has said they did not vote for it.

It is interesting that not long before the international we were assured on the "other Forum" that there was nothing of this ilk on the agenda.
There was a published agenda for the first meeting on wbcci.org, but nothing for the july 5 meeting.

The appearance of this motion looks pretty suspicious to me and I suspect that it will turn out that region 4 members did not vote on it, but possibly unit presidents were polled. If this had gone through 14 unit meetings it would have been well known before the july 5 meeting.
WE may not know it for a fact yet but things sure point that way

[HowieE]

Originally Posted by mistral blue

Do you know this for a fact?

Yesterday I have asked an officer in each of the Region #4 units if their unit was the dissenting vote. So far one has replied they never even had a vote. We will see how much control the Region president has over the others and how they reply.

[LI Pets]

Rick it appears that this entire issue was done without the knowledge of the membership.

It was done after most left the rally.

We can't trust the leadership, this info is being reviewed by our lawyers for inclusion in the Complaint.

[robandzoe]

Originally Posted by RickDavis

At this point no one in region 4 has posted anything about their unit voting for it, or even being aware of it. I think one unit has said they did not vote for it.

There was a published agenda for the first meeting on wbcci.org, but nothing for the july 5 meeting.

The appearance of this motion looks pretty suspicious to me and I suspect that it will turn out that region 4 members did not vote on it, but possibly unit presidents were polled.

Something smells fishy in Jackson Center.. at least the marketing commitee will be busier. It's one way to boost the funds so that they "Great American Tour" can continue on......

[wheel interested]

I think so too. And even though they outed our re transmittal of the meetings I think the fact finding is advantageous to extend to the membership, which for their number were NOT present, at these 11th hour shenanigans when all members were vacated as prescribed and statements were made that supposedly generated from the collective members of Region 4 and NOT! I want to see the facts behind what I suspect are "tampered" statements, PERIOD! Their bluff, my call! Pay attention kids! The IBT continues to paint themselves into a corner and expects you will not notice... My question to you is, " DO YOU?!"

And you know what 2Air? I realize you think that the WBCCI threads denigrate Air Forums but as I have mentioned before we have a WBCCI sub forum, as there are many other special interest forums such as the 50th African Caravan. It is not my wish to divide but I do believe there is a number of Airstreamers here on Air Forums that do follow the threads on WBCCI through the WBCCI subforum because it is the only place where comments can be expressed without censorship to present the promotional picture of WBCCI to the public. And though I realize we may be a thorn in your side, I also contend that you may be sympathetic as a past member and realize if some remain we would like change to occur. There is no toe stepping, Andy allowed the sub forum. I apologize to those that have left but I applaud those that keep on trying. I do believe that the forums are big enough and amiable enough for all. If I was curt, and I now think I was, I apologize for my deal with it comment.

[66Overlander]

Originally Posted by mistral blue

Do you know this for a fact?

No it is an opinion.

What I know is that the 15th Unit, NOVA, had no knowledge of this motion before hearing about it after July 5th. It must be understood that they were not a fully chartered unit at the time the "votes" supposedly happened and they were not included in the 14 units mentioned.

Of the other 14 Units supposedly noted in the comments, I can only say that the unit I vote thru did not have a membership vote. One of our Unit VPs did not know anything about this until reading it here. Our unit uses mail in ballots for voting and there was no such motion included for us to vote on. While I missed the last Unit membership meeting, I have been told this topic was not discussed, let alone voted upon - but again I was not there to prove it.

My supposition is that the Unit Presidents were polled and that in very few if any cases, were there membership votes, but this is an opinion, not a known fact. I do know that some Region 4 Units are for this type of change and others (I believe) are against it. Unit president opinons may be different than that of the body of Unit members.

I also agree that thus was sneaky to bring it up on July 5th and not in the earlier IBT meeting, nor the Delegates Meeting. Even if nothing improper was done, it sure doesn't look right, knowing that this motion was voted down by the membership only 3 or 4 years ago. My hope is that pressure will be put on Thor and Airstream to solve the issue by rebadging another Thor MH. Beyond that they had better be thinking a very restricted grandfathering option or else they may have a rebellion on their hands (Note: I would not be part of that rebellion, I would just quietly leave the club. There has been too much controversy lately and it just ain't fun anymore.)

[RickDavis]

The ONLY way I could support rebadging of another Thor motorhome would be if it was manufactured under a contract with Airstream and was sold exclusively by Airstream dealers and serviced by the Airstream dealer network.
I do NOT support any kind of grandfathering.
As soon as non Airstream products are in it will not only affect the club but also the exclusively Airstream parks as these folks will want an exception there also.
We are a specific brand club. It is not an issue about people despite the claims of the supporters

[Ed Emerick]

Originally Posted by RickDavis

The ONLY way I could support rebadging of another Thor motorhome would be if it was manufactured under a contract with Airstream and was sold exclusively by Airstream dealers and serviced by the Airstream dealer network.
I do NOT support any kind of grandfathering.
As soon as non Airstream products are in it will not only affect the club but also the exclusively Airstream parks as these folks will want an exception there also.
We are a specific brand club. It is not an issue about people despite the claims of the supporters

Great post Rick, I agree 100%.

If the above is reality then I have NO problem with allowing this motor home in the club. ANYTHING than the above described is NOT and Airstream in my eyes.

[Foiled Again]

IBT - They wouldn't do well in prison would they?

I mean it's so obvious. They DON'T want to keep their Airstreams, but they want to keep the money they get from WBCCI to travel all over the place on our dues. So.... they'll go to obscene lengths to create an artificial "Airstream".

Of course the members of THIS forum can tell them the easy way to be LEGAL Airstreamers - use a 16' as a toad vehicle behind their Prevost or whatever.

I hope someone is e-mailing every member of region 4 letting them know how they "voted"

Paula

[Coloradobus]

Been there and done that. Tow an Airstream with a Prevost. Guess we have outdone the IBT folks. The Colliers knew we had this setup, tho.

This was several years ago, photoed, was our 2000 Marathon H3-45 and 1997 Airstream B-190 with a Roadmaster Baseplate and XL adaptor for Blue Ox Towbar, and a Remco Driveshaft Disconnect. When the bus was too big, we left it and took the B-190 into more remote areas. We sold the B-190 last spring and bought a 1984 Classic 270 Airstream Motorhome, and sold the Bus last fall and bought another. Oh BTW, that Bus had 111,000 miles on it and was just getting broken in. Maybe Airstream should consider converting a Prevost shell like Marathon and Liberty does for the IBT to buy. Be better coach for sure than a Cutter diesel. We know, we had a 1999 Cutter, owned for less than a year. Too much hassle.

[RickDavis]

Originally Posted by Foiled Again

So.... they'll go to obscene lengths to create an artificial "Airstream".
Paula

I believe "Artificial Airstream" could have some campaign potential.

[mistral blue]

Originally Posted by wheel interested

John Turner: "Rationale:
This motion came from Region 4 units, was approved by the Region 4 Board, 13 out of 14 units voted 'yes'."

Was this motion on the agenda for the Region 4 rally this past May and did the Region 4 membership have any notice that it would be discussed and voted upon?

Was there in fact a Moho motion that was voted on at the Region 4 rally this past May?

[Lily&Me]

I'd like to believe this motion was sprung on Region Presidents at International at something akin to the midnight hour, as we discussed the Richard Heyde and other issues for International at our May rally and this did not come up nor appear in newsletters. I just can't imagine our Unit leaders intentionally keeping this a secret, as they appear to be better people than that, as well as aware of current concerns about leadership.

If you look at those who would benefit from this HIGHLY UNPOPULAR and revisited motion, it would be in their best interest NOT to publicize it ahead of time so that members had time to react and perhaps reach their delegates/officers at International to express their opinions.

What were they thinking??!! Sneaky, deceptive and self-serving is just not going to work!

These folks are gonna have to change their ways, or people are gonna be bailing from WBCCI as if from the Titanic in its' last hours.

Maggie

[eubank]

It looks like they might have brought it up right at the end because it was a non-agenda item under new business. While I'd be the last to agree with the proposal (my opinion is that the club is for those towing/driving Airstream-factory RVs, period), it does make sense to bring it up at this point simply because that's the way that meeting agendas work.
Lynn

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by eubank

It looks like they might have brought it up right at the end because it was a non-agenda item under new business. While I'd be the last to agree with the proposal (my opinion is that the club is for those towing/driving Airstream-factory RVs, period), it does make sense to bring it up at this point simply because that's the way that meeting agendas work.
Lynn

Well, for something which was a) already defeated once, b) going to benefit just a few and c) be highly controversial, if it was just an afterthought it was certainly not well thought out and does at this point look very suspicious.

Maggie

[eubank]

Pretty much anybody on the board can bring up new business at the end of a meeting. That it might be kooky is something that can't be controlled. Personally, I like Chris' idea: If they want to have an SOB bus, fine, then they can also get themselves an Airstream trailer and tow it with the bus.

Lynn

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by eubank

Pretty much anybody on the board can bring up new business at the end of a meeting. That it might be kooky is something that can't be controlled. Personally, I like Chris' idea: If they want to have an SOB bus, fine, then they can also get themselves an Airstream trailer and tow it with the bus.

Lynn

I agree----this is the perfect resolution, already in place and which will appease everyone.

Maggie

[Ed Emerick]

&maggie

Originally Posted by doug

Well, for something which was a) already defeated once, b) going to benefit just a few and c) be highly controversial, if it was just an afterthought it was certainly not well thought out and does at this point look very suspicious.

Maggie

Great post, covers all the bases that I was thinking about. I did have a chance to speak to Don Clark about this earlier this week and I will say he was surprised as well it even came up.