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Old 07-01-2012, 10:54 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Nuvite-F View Post
True (in fact, TAC is not-a-club, as the founders early posts on Airforums explain), but it is not clear that TAC has any answers, either.

From what I have heard, the attendance at TAC's [Wally Byam's] Birthday Bash is declining even faster than attendance at the WBCCI International, on a percentage basis. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.)
Interesting comments. I did take a quick look at the web site. Probably not quite what I am looking for. I'd like to see some modern and useful purposes.
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:17 AM   #114
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On 4/18/2012 when I last asked Cindy Reed there were 5651 members

there were 458 KNOWN motorhomes

There were 597 MAL's

The last number mentioned on the broadcast yesterday was 451 trailers/moho at the rally.
Thanks Rick.

597 MALs. They pay an extra surcharge fee because the IBT wants to eliminate and discourage their class (is that discrimination legal?) and they don't get a vote (speaking of which how went the motion for a vote for MALs?) and yet they outnumber the EC, the IBT, all the volunteers together!!! Unit 000 would have some major clout if organized. It appears 451 moho owners( or at the very least a PIP or so and friends) are far more equal than 597 MALs. Is that the "weighted" vote I have heard of?
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Old 07-02-2012, 06:32 AM   #115
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. Next year, the water crew will put down the water lines, so will have much work to do. Also, next year, the "sanitation" crew will be busy, so if you want to come early there will be work. The intent is that the rally will get where it will require many less early workers and that the "many" aren't paying for the few.

I am being installed as the president of region 3, and so far have not been provided with any free meals, in fact I've paid for all of them and have paid from my pocket for my flags, region clothing, and the fuel to get here. I believe in the club and am working to keep it going....as are many members.
The need for water lines and a sanitation crew would imply that next years site isn't as highly developed as the last several locations.

It would probably be wishful thinking that a generator or boondocking or 3 amp section could be returning? Any one know next years pricing.

Perhaps the free meals have been removed from the budget. I do remember invites to a dress up dinner of some sort when I was VAC prez 10 years ago. ( I did not go)

The parkers are probably some of the hardest workers at the rally and it is not a job I would want but overall the early worker thing has been taken advantage of by many It is my understanding that other organizations do not hit their rally sites nearly so soon and not with as many. Perhaps they hire some outside planners?

It also appears that other clubs (Escapees, FMCA, Good Sam) can put on rallies at the same locations at a lower per day cost. I think Escapees will be using the Sedalia site soon and they have all used Gillette.

I have no plans to leave the club as long as it remains an Airstream club and I have already paid my dues for next year.

On the other hand there are no International rallies in our future under the present pricing/full hook up only structure.
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Old 07-02-2012, 06:49 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Nuvite-F View Post
True (in fact, TAC is not-a-club, as the founders early posts on Airforums explain), but it is not clear that TAC has any answers, either.

From what I have heard, the attendance at TAC's [Wally Byam's] Birthday Bash is declining even faster than attendance at the WBCCI International, on a percentage basis. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.)
It is probably too soon to judge. There have been only 2 TAC bashes so far.
There was a drop the second year but like anything new the first year draws some extra attention.
We will be at the bash in a few days so will better know the attendance then but my gut feeling is it will be consistent with last year. ( I have no information, just a guess).
This will be our 3rd one and we have thoroughly enjoyed them.

The same is probably true of the Pocono NASCAR rally.
We attended the first and liked it even though I am not a race fan. We skipped last year, primarily because of the travel distance but it is still on the table for this season.

I believe Pocono could have been a highly successful special events rally if the person behind it had not been expelled from the club.

Actually it should be noted that BOTH the Birthday Bash and the Pocono Rally were originally planned as WBCCI rallies.. Draw your own conclusion.
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Old 07-02-2012, 07:18 AM   #117
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Of course, a club has to change with the times, and its organizing rules must be such that change is organically possible: Nothing is absolutely written in stone so that it cannot be changed. All of that obtains, I think, for the WBCCI. The question is whether change happens in the right direction or speed, or, indeed, too fast or in the wrong direction. To a certain degree, knowing just the right mix is like reading a crystal ball, a pessimistic conclusion that should nonetheless never prevent one from trying.

Indeed, the FMCA is undergoing similar pain. Good friends of ours, who are here for a month or so, are connected in with the leadership of that club and report very similar discussions about attracting younger members, losing current members, and so forth.

I think organizations like ours and similar ones will survive, though not necessarily always in ways that we might like. Some growing segments of our society appear to have a pretty negative attitude toward the whole RVing endeavor. Check this article, for instance:

Gen Y and automobiles

I might also offer a revealing post from RV.net this morning:

RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Rallies, Shows and Gatherings: A New FMCA Maybe?

Lynn
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Old 07-02-2012, 08:10 AM   #118
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It also appears that other clubs (Escapees, FMCA, Good Sam) can put on rallies at the same locations at a lower per day cost. I think Escapees will be using the Sedalia site soon and they have all used Gillette.
Rick:

The Escapees held an Escapade at Sedalia in May 2009 are having another Escapade in Sedalia this year from September 16th through the 21st. They are charging $235 for the generator section and $285 for full hookups. (This is for two people.) They have a couple who are the planners and are in charge of organizing it. They have a few people come in one week early. It's a fun rally.

Why the difference in price between the WBCCI and the SKP's? The WBCCI is run like the government and Escapees is run like a business.
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Old 07-02-2012, 08:41 AM   #119
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I believe there were about 200+ rigs here as "early workers". I feel that is too many, some of these folks work very hard as "volunteers" so don't try to make all as getting a free month. The parking crew, traffic control, verification have been working out in 95-100 degree temps every day. Also the members of the club band and chorus come in early to practice. Now, a person doesn't need to come in early to co-ordinate bridge etc. so some folks don't work so hard. Most early workers arrived around the 15th. Next year, the water crew will put down the water lines, so will have much work to do. Also, next year, the "sanitation" crew will be busy, so if you want to come early there will be work. The intent is that the rally will get where it will require many less early workers and that the "many" aren't paying for the few.

I am being installed as the president of region 3, and so far have not been provided with any free meals, in fact I've paid for all of them and have paid from my pocket for my flags, region clothing, and the fuel to get here. I believe in the club and am working to keep it going....as are many members.
Are you saying 200+ volunteers of the 451 rigs attending? I know it takes a large group of hard working volunteers to put on an International but 200?
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Old 07-02-2012, 10:27 AM   #120
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Why the difference in price between the WBCCI and the SKP's? The WBCCI is run like the government and Escapees is run like a business.
A darn funny line!
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Old 07-02-2012, 10:52 AM   #121
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I might also offer a revealing post from RV.net this morning:

RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Rallies, Shows and Gatherings: A New FMCA Maybe?

Lynn
Way back in prehistoric times, shortly after buying an Airstream and attending my first International in Bozeman (1973) the company I was working for decided they needed some representation at the FMCA rallies.
As the only RVer working for the company I was asked to do it.

Always looking for an opportunity to use my new trailer I called FMCA HQ and asked if I could bring my trailer and my family.
I received an affirmative answer with no hesitation.
We attended at least 4 of their International Rallies in places like DuQouin and Salem plus several more in Florida. All in our trailer
We were always given good parking and my family was able to participate in all the events going on while i was working and we attended the excellent entertainment in the evening.
At that time the WBCCI was nearing it's peak and the FMCA was still a fledgling organization. number 10,000 was passed out at one of these rallies.

We found the FMCA rally to be much more fun than the WBCCI rallies.

Now, to drag this back on topic, Possibly if the WBCCI would extend the same courtesy to our Vendors that travel by RV and have families instead of pushing them off in a corner we would get a few more vendors
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:53 PM   #122
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Once again procedural manipulation trumps honest discussion and informed decision-making. Preparation included selected quotes from legal opinions, refusal to share how the proposal supposedly contravened Ohio law, and dire predictions of the fearful effects on the Club.

I suspected something was afoot when over a half hour was spent explaining the minutiae, complete with visuals, of Roberts on voting, including several references to expected motions wherein all this would apply.

On cue The Motion was call and once approved precluded any amendment to the original document. It was then explained, several times, that voting FOR the motion would then have the immediate effect of rendering the Club leaderless and without governing documents. The subsequent vote was predictable; indeed predicted.

The majority of members are in the dark about the workings of the Club and care little beyond their own Unit. Many feel that what "them up there" do is not their concern and it is not for them to criticize their "betters". "Them up there" do little to counter this view. This is perhaps a little over-stated to emphasize the issue of member apathy.

So we lose more members, the "elite" tighten their grip on the Club and a chance to modernize and rationalize the Club get flushed, but who cares?
Maybe the 25% who voted FOR the motion in spite of the doom sayers!!

Up with the traditionalists, down with the progressives (sometimes called the hostile elements) and on with business as usual in the spirit of positivity and the way things used to be. Pay no attention to the people behind the screen as the Club beavers on toward Thor MOHOs.
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:00 PM   #123
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I have been camping for the weekend and just read the up to date material. My question at this point is who was the SHILL that called the motion.

TAC has taken an unrealistic position of NO RULES. The WBCCI has taken a position of TOO MANY rules. My thought at this point would be for TAC or another newly formed group to consider adopting some or all of the Revised Constitution and creating a club that will meet the needs of a newly defined membership. A membership truly dedicated to Fun Camping with your Airstream unit.

As some may remember my biggest fear has long been that the IBT would run the WBCCI into the ground and we would lose Jackson Center as a foundation for a club. It is now clear to me that is what is going to happen so I now look forward to a new origination that stands a chance of surviving.
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:08 PM   #124
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TAC has taken an unrealistic position of NO RULES. The WBCCI has taken a position of TOO MANY rules. My thought at this point would be for TAC or another newly formed group to consider adopting some or all of the Revised Constitution and creating a club that will meet the needs of a newly defined membership. A membership truly dedicated to Fun Camping with your Airstream unit.
I completely agree with this viewpoint. What would appeal to me is a club that has organizational purpose and structure and mission, but firmly engaged in the modern world, and addressing the concerns and needs of people today.

There's nothing wrong with tradition until it becomes a roadblock to modernity. Those holding the controls of the current club are going to ride that horse until it expires. It is very clear that a "new version" of the club is what is needed. I have no objection to some rules, some traditions, some organization. I am fine with that. But it needs to serve member needs today, not 1960.
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Old 07-02-2012, 02:04 PM   #125
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Another time of mourning within the Club.

I would ask those at the International that have some tape join me. I doubt the IBT will take heed but some of those with their head in the sand might ask Y
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:17 PM   #126
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I just finished listing to the rail road train that lead up to the vote on the Revised Constitution. From the questions asked and the manor in which they were answered the majority of the delegates had no idea in the world what they were voting on. The Chair represented the vote as a death notice to the existence of the Club as of the end of the vote and thus those delegates that had not idea what the Revised Constitution meant to the future of the Club voted against it.

This opportunity to continue the current outdated Constitution may in part have been inadvertently been aided by the fact that the revised Constitution did not provide for a period of transaction. The Chair took that omission as a means to talk the Delegates into defeating the Revision.
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