I'm Ready to drop Out and become a MAL (Member at Large!)

[Airstream25]

Originally Posted by rgesch

Well I think I've just about had it. Is anyone else finding that being an "active" member of their Unit that you spend more time on the politics and less time on what you thought you joined the club for? Like camping?
What do I have to lose? Can anyone tell me the down side of this?

Cyber unit?

This Cyber unit of WBCCI tread was started by Janet.

65GT has added that the WDCU is similar to a cyber unit.
See their comments below.

My question is why not drop WBCCI and just consider Airstream Forums to be our Cyber Unit of Airstream Owners.
We already enjoy the forum comments, questions, answers, polls etc.
We are able to attend any of the forum rallies that are convenient to our location and available time.

There is no cost, no uniforms, no flags.

All we need to do is post any Cyber unit rallies that we are willing to organize and make available to other Airstream Forums members.

Seems like the only things we would miss out on are the WBCCI rallies, Vintage rallies and the ability to vote in WBCCI affairs.

Comments?


---
Janet:
I have been mulling over the "What makes a unit a good unit" issue and have a couple of thoughts....
A good unit has regular communication, rallies, member participation, diversity, encourages new folks to join and carries out the mission of the parent organization. it's members have voice and vote and feel valued.
Some of us belong to those kinds of units - some don't. Many of us live hundreds of miles form a WBCCI unit - and while we belong - we do not participate in the regular business of the organization - we can't - it's too far to drive. Many belong to the WBCCI as "at large members" and have no unit affiliation AND no voice or vote - yet pay dues.
So... how about a Cyber unit? Forums members are already acting as a WBCCI unit. we plan and hold rallies, we meet regularly (online), heck we vote on polls! We work out our differences, we (many of us) are willing to support the forums with cash...
Why not start a WBCCi unit? it could be a venue to give those 'at large" members a voice. We are already a cohesive community. We have the technology to hold online meetings and there is established practice for doing so. I beong to another organization that has online meetings and balloting - it's fairly effective.
If the current model of the WBCCI is not flexible enough for our new population, let's expand it. Don't throw it away - just tweak it a little. There is room for both traditional units and non-traditional units. Many already belong to more than one unit anyway....

---
65GT:
WDCU members pay $55 + $1. They do all of their VOTING by email. If you don't respond, they CALL you.
They also have their own forum for online communications and an online newsletter. They're interested in taking in members from any and everywhere... To be an affiliate member will also cost you a buck.
The website:
http://www.servintfree.net/wbcci-dc/

[clancy_boy]

I am now the proud owner of 30962 - these were the numbers on the Caravel and I decided to keep them. I am a MAL - and only joined to go to the rallies and meet you folks. I am already the President of my POA and of the last remaining Gun and Archery Club on a NASA facility nationwide. The last one keeps me real BUSY.

[bryanl]

Originally Posted by Airstream25

I have been mulling over the "What makes a unit a good unit" issue and have a couple of thoughts....
A good unit has regular communication, rallies, member participation, diversity, encourages new folks to join and carries out the mission of the parent organization. it's members have voice and vote and feel valued.

If the current model of the WBCCI is not flexible enough for our new population, let's expand it. Don't throw it away - just tweak it a little.

The problem is one of semantics and integrity to purpose.

The WBCCI does have the flexibility you seek but is using different words. There are Units which are geographic and representational entities and then there are intra-clubs that are BOF (birds of a feather) groups within WBCCI. One is geo-centric and the other is interest-centric but, in both cases, the unifying factor is subordinate to what identifies WBCCI as an entity unto itself. Both do rallies and have other events under the WBCCI banner.

A 'cyber' intra-club already exists. The question, if you want to tweak current practice a bit, is where the problem lies in what currently exists. I am seeing two agendas that are driving this and neither is being addressed in what I think is a totally honest manner.

The first is the matter of MAL voting privilege. The second is that of organization governance.

To me, the MAL voting gripes are curious because they seem to be complaining about a contract after accepting it. It almost seems that people signed up as MAL just so they could complain about something.

The organization governance is what is behind the 'what makes a unit a good unit' criteria you listed. Those efforts require volunteers and resources working in planned and coordinated way. That is what makes an organization different from what some seem to envision as an alternative.

The governance and overhead issue is one the creeps up on people. It sounds really nice to suggest a rally can be put together by just a bit of forum discussion. This works but only up to a point. Somebody has to keep track of who is going. Somebody has to make reservations. Somebody has to scout the site. The group has to figure out what is acceptable and what isn't and what to do if someone violates the standards. Someone needs to manage funds and pay bills. This all requires governance and management and that means organization. You can find out how to do this by trial and error or you can use what others have learned. Much of the discussion here seems to be for the former while WBCCI provides the latter.

The way I see it, the discussions about these things won't bear much edible fruit until the underlying problems some people have with how things currently are become clarified and understood.

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by Leipper

It almost seems that people signed up as MAL just so they could complain about something..

hi bryan and others......

i've not met ANYONE who is a mal or was once a mal, that fits this description....

-many use this route as the quickest club entry,
-some/many dealers will pay for the first years memebership and submit the paperwork right from the dealers office. since new buyers will no zip about local options, mal is suggested to get the membership done and complete the process. my dealer does this and i've talked to many airstream sales folks who do the same thing...
-some use this route because they don't have a local unit that is close enough or that they are familiar with......
-some use this route because the local unit is dormant, dead or dying
-some use this because they have tried the local unit and for whatever reason it did not fit.
-some because they have moved recently and want flexibility before joining a local unit....
-and i'm sure there are other well intended reasons.....folks choose mal...

i agree that complaining after the 'contract' is signed is an issue.......
but no one, at no time, in no space, or in any media informs potential mals that they will not have voting rights or other limited membership rights...in telephone contacts, email contacts and reviewing the wb website, the issues were never mentioned...when i asked at h/q, what's different about being a 'mal' i was told "you won't get any local unit newsletters (but many are on line), your fees are paid directly to jc and you won't have local luncheons monthly during the off season....that's about it".....

the no vote 'feature' of mal is only understood by word of mouth or other grass roots communication....or by reading the offical materials.......which are received AFTER joining. since mals have no representation or contact person or formal communications.....info is all second hand.....or at local unit functions and rallys.......

i asked the 'bulletin board' big wigs,
if mals could have a small space to post messages to each other.....and was told no and we could just have the 'message committee deliver messages or get on the cb......

there are many reasons for discontent 2 b sure but the notion that the discontent join as a mal is unfounded......

of course now with the forums the 2 may be linked and i like it!

cheers
2air'

[bryanl]

i've not met ANYONE who is a mal or was once a mal, that fits this description....

whoops. look like I hit a button. I suggest a more careful reading of what I said. I tried to qualify the population I was describing to only those MAL's expressing defined behavior. Anyone reading over these forums will see what I am describing without having to use too much imagination, I think.

but no one, at no time, in no space, or in any media informs potential mals that they will not have voting rights or other limited membership rights.

I do not agree with the absolute "no one" but I do agree that many people join organizations without learning about what they are doing. I will even agree that some are mislead and given wrong information in regards to WBCCI and membership. (hey, I read governance documents before I join, doesn't everybody? ;-) )

I also know that the Constitution and Bylaws are on the web and clearly identify membership classes and privileges. See
http://wbcci.org/index.cfm?pageSRC=Membership
but the kicker is not clear. It is in the Constitution at
http://wbcci.org/documents/ACF2154.pdf
article VI sec 3 on page 4 which says MAL get all benefits and privileges except right to vote or hold office in the International, Regionals, Units, or Intra Clubs (i.e. governance participation).

What you highlight is the result of one of the persistent underlying problems in WBCCI. The information is there but you have to work to get it. The result is that there is a lot of wrong information being offered and people can receive bad information. This leads to a lot of friction and bad feelings.

There has been a start on fixing this problem in that it is now possible to find the Constitution and Bylaws on the web (it used to be secret privileged information kept only by the PTB) and it is in an open format (used to be MS Word files and is now PDF). There is yet a long ways to go to squash myths and get everyone on the same track to provide a consistent and accurate story.

I also find some of the other treatment described despicable and am doing my part to make sure it is enshrined in a WBCCI hall of shame. At Boise in '98 I was just amazed (and wrote a white paper with suggestions). At Salem I decided to start taking names and recording behavior. There is a need for decorum and a respect for the perpetrators (who are usually well meaning but just don't seem to get it) but it is also getting to be time to raise the stakes and being a bit less polite in feedback provided. This is one of five revolutions with flames being fanned and I do hope that constructive change starts coming at a quicker pace.

Fly that Jolly Roger!

[daveandpamz]

I've treaded through 7 pages of chat about whether or not to "be a part of" the Club. It seems to me that the issues WBCCI faces aren't any different from any other national organization with local chapters.

My husband and I have been members of the Mercedes-Benz Club of America for years. It has a national office and local units and the same political nonsense. When Dave was Pres of our local chapter and I published the newsletter, we ignored the national stuff and focused solely on local events. We had lots of fun, made great friends and when we burned out (because everyone does), we handed it off to someone else. We show up for functions when we can and it's all good. We pay our dues, even though we don't participate much or even vote. They seem steep but it's the price of admission and for now, that's okay with us.

Reality is: clubs require members to pay dues. If you don't want to pay dues, then don't join. If you don't like the dues structure, then get active and change it or vote for someone who will. If you don't have voting rights, then there is no point in being a member. It seems like there are many people who would like to see those in control of the WBCCI ousted. Okay -- choose one of the prescribed paths to power and go for it. Of course, this means you must join a unit and work to gain a national position. And that makes you one of Them, doesn't it?

All this angst and teeth-gnashing seems to overshadow the whole point of it all: the Cameraderie. We become members of clubs to be part of a larger group. If the WBCCI doesn't do that for you, then work to change it or find a different group. Truly, it's that simple.

Dave and I have considered joining the WBCCI (our camper has big red numbers on it already), but we hesitate because we don't want to get sucked into the vortex of controversy. Been there and done that. We just want to take our "Towster" to a tree-lined spot, open the canopy (and a beer) and relax. Please let me know when a group of Airstreamers near Cincinnati wants to caravan someplace fun so we can join them -- regardless of our Club status.

Thanks for listening to a different voice .

[Airstream25]

Originally Posted by Leipper

It sounds really nice to suggest a rally can be put together by just a bit of forum discussion. This works but only up to a point.

Somebody has to keep track of who is going.
Somebody has to make reservations.
Somebody has to scout the site.
The group has to figure out what is acceptable and what isn't and what to do if someone violates the standards.
Someone needs to manage funds and pay bills.

This all requires governance and management and that means organization.

I think the "governance and management and organization" are the things to be minimized.

Regarding your points above;
1. The Forum itself has a mechanism for people to self sign up.
2. Reservations can be the responsibility of the indiviuals attending.
3. Yes, the person proposing the forum rally would have to scout the site.
4. As we go thru life, we all get feedback from those around us as to what is acceptable or not. Nothing different with a rally.
5. Everyone pays their own bills individually, no central funds manager.

As I see it, all the person proposing a Forums Rally needs to do is;

• Scout a desireable site
• Pick a date
• Post the date, site, site description & site contact info on the Forums. Add comments about a pot luck meal, booze, etc.
• Attend

If the site is a boondock then all the financial issues go away.

[daveandpamz]

If I read correctly that you are President, when my husband gave up running the local chapter of the Mercedes-Benz Club, he got a badge that said "Past Potentate". You might like that, someday...

[rgesch]

Well Now I'm sure I'm in the wrong Unit! I was reading the Units Consitution and Objectives. I can bore you all by writing it or you can pull your own Unit objectives and read for yourself as all of our Constitutions and ByLaws are basically the same.

It is one great big sentence that says this non-profit organization is to encourage unit participation, development of the Unit, fraternization, encourage safe driving, assist in improving the general welfare of the rec. vehicle public through, a strong organization for the good will toward rec. vehicle travel, cooperate in with other organizations to elevate the standards and ethics of various groups to disseminate information of an advisory and educational nature, advise and recommend legislation blah, blah,blah,blah, blah.

Not one word about fun, camping, or anything else that translates into a good time for all.

Good Grief no wonder we are in trouble! This long winded baloney indicates our current objective is to perpetuate our pompous, exclusive, all seeing all knowing superiority because we own Airstreams????????

I am in the wrong organization! Thank god on this "long strange trip" I have met the wonderful people I have.

I don't know about anyone else but that bunch of baloney isn't my objectve. My objective is to travel as much as I can, meet as many people as I can and have as much fun doing it as I can.

Maybe that's where we have to start to change this club. A collective shared vison of NEW OBJECTIVES! FUN FUN FUN It's a camping club for goodness sake!

[clancy_boy]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

hi bryan and others......

i've not met ANYONE who is a mal or was once a mal, that fits this description....

-many use this route as the quickest club entry,
-some use this route because they don't have a local unit that is close enough or that they are familiar with......
--and i'm sure there are other well intended reasons.....folks choose mal...

cheers
2air'

These are it exactly, some just have unpredictable jobs and lifstyles and cannot commit to an organization but still wish to be a part of it when they can. I would hate to miss an oppertunity to meet some of you because I was not a WBCCI member and missed a great rally that fit my schedule. now that I am a member and have sent off my dues to the VAC I will see you soon. Put faces to Forum Names, what an idea.

[bryanl]

I think the "governance and management and organization" are the things to be minimized.

I do to. But it is idealistic and unrealistic to think that any relationship between human beings does not need management and governance. I think it also false to presume that WBCCI seeks other than minimizing governance for what it sees as the activities it needs to pursue to forward its objectives. As we just recently witnessed, it is a membership run organization and not an oligarchy.

"This long winded baloney indicates our current objective is to perpetuate our pompous, exclusive, all seeing all knowing superiority because we own Airstreams???????? ... I am in the wrong organization! Thank god on this "long strange trip" I have met the wonderful people I have.

I agree. From what you are saying you probably need to join a college fraternity and not the WBCCI.

Also please look at what you are calling baloney: encouraging fraternization, groups, safe driving, good will, and legislation favorable to RVing, - I see nothing in that list that is "pompous, exclusive," etc.

Something brought those "wonderful people" you met to a common interest. Fun is greatly increased when shared. RVing is much more fun when it is safer and the legal environment doesn't interfere more than necessary. It is much more fun when there is good will and shouting "baloney" as a judgment of others' ideas is inhibited and thinking is done before spouting off. Most folks have fun when they are helping others - whether with their Airstream or in contributing to a community effort such as is done at every I'Rally and at many other WBCCI events.

All this angst and teeth-gnashing seems to overshadow the whole point of it all: the Cameraderie

What is sad to me is that Dave and Pam and Asa see this shouting of "baloney" and the parading of faults and problems and have reservations about coming on board. What we need to do is to highlight those other threads, those where people have discovered other "wonderful people" at rallies and other WBCCI events. Where people have learned new things, had new experiences, made new friends, solved old problems - all because the club broadened their experience.

There will be politics anytime you get people together trying to figure out how to do something in common. Fortunately, with the WBCCI you can select your level of involvement. Join MAL and pick and choose events to attend and stay out of the governance stuff. Join a Unit but stay in the background and just enjoy experiences with a few friends. Or join a Unit and get involved to make changes and fix things. Or create your own Unit and show everyone else how it should be done by example. (been there, done that, doing it now)

What I think we don't need are accusations, insults, slander, bad mouthing, in your face activities, and other behavior that is directly analogous to what it is about WBCCI that stimulates the complaint, the very essence of "pompous, exclusive, all seeing" behavior with the only virtue its ours and not theirs.

[Alumaholic]

Originally Posted by rgesch

Well Now I'm sure I'm in the wrong Unit! I was reading the Units Consitution and Objectives. I can bore you all by writing it or you can pull your own Unit objectives and read for yourself as all of our Constitutions and ByLaws are basically the same.


Not one word about fun, camping, or anything else that translates into a good time for all.

Good Grief no wonder we are in trouble! This long winded baloney indicates our current objective is to perpetuate our pompous, exclusive, all seeing all knowing superiority because we own Airstreams????????

I am in the wrong organization! Thank god on this "long strange trip" I have met the wonderful people I have.

I don't know about anyone else but that bunch of baloney isn't my objectve. My objective is to travel as much as I can, meet as many people as I can and have as much fun doing it as I can.

Maybe that's where we have to start to change this club. A collective shared vison of NEW OBJECTIVES! FUN FUN FUN It's a camping club for goodness sake!

Here are the objectives in the Constitution and Bylaws that I drafting for a Unit of New Mexico MAL Contents:

• To routinely conduct outings (campouts and caravans) of the Unit membership for the purpose of visiting places of scenic beauty, geological interest, or historical significance with a minimum amount of organization and structure;
• To encourage and assist fellow Airstream enthusiasts, within and without the Unit, in the selection, purchase, maintenance, restoration, and renovation of Airstream products of all ages;
• To involve interested non-Airstream owners in Unit activities so as to disseminate information and encourage Airstream ownership;
• To encourage Airstream product owners not actively involved in WBCCI activities to participate in Unit activities with the goal of Unit membership;
• To encourage the fun, safe and enjoyable operation of Airstream products with other Airstream enthusiasts;
• To coordinate with, and participate in where practical, other Units, Regions and International activities;
• To disseminate relevant information of an educational or advisory that may be of value to its members;
• To encourage government and private agencies to continue upgrading the quantity and quality of public and private recreational vehicle parks and facilities.

What do you think?

[maxandgeorgia]

Looks good to me, but perhaps also include places of recreational-sport activitiy in your first item because that kayaking, canoeing, fishing, hiking, and so on are high on many campers' fun list. So, is this a unit that is going to really take form? ~G

[Alumaholic]

Originally Posted by maxandgeorgia

So, is this a unit that is going to really take form? ~G

I'm working on it! Having tried to participate and change from within and having failed miserably, I'll see if I can find enough fellow MAL contents to change from without. Thanks for the great suggestion about adding recreational destinations.

[2airishuman]

ok
dokie
fellow and
fellowette
mal contents......

i like what you are writing kelvan
but i also agree with what airstream25 is offering as well......
he appears to be the membership chair for your region?
do you folks know each other?
and get along? or not....
it is know of my biz...
that's why i'm asking....


anyway, i do more and more think the forums provides us with the best vehicle for a free thinkers unit......and the forum rallies are fun....perhaps we need a thread or subheading where we can coax along a 'club forum' sort of thing....

one problem with that is many of us would still like a tie to the wb so unless we could get the forums unit formal wally status.....

now for what you've written so far kelvan......
so SIGN ME UP!
and coming from a wordy guy.....
each of those points get better as they get shorter.....
fewer words, yet no vagueness....

so for example the 1st point might be......

"To conduct outings (campouts and caravans) of the Unit membership, visiting great places for fun and fellowship with a minimum of direct organization or supervision."

my point being, get all the bullets short like #5,6 and 7........yes we will bike, canoe, photo, drink, meditate, eat and so on.....and yes the rallies and caravans will be to historic, beautiful places, but we might also go to simple spots or on quiet trips....but all this doesn't need to be said....per say......

again i like it......and short, clear and inclusive will make the objective/constitution and what not more powerful.....edits are hard...but at the end.....so 'em how great simple can be....

there might be an additional page that expands on the notion of 'great places and fun' so the ideas maxandgeorgia are suggesting get listed.....i like all of those things too....


now what about the hat?


cheers
2air'

[yukionna]

Originally Posted by Leipper

....but it is also getting to be time to raise the stakes and being a bit less polite in feedback provided...

Nooooooooo! Leipper, noooooooooo! [Note…I'm trying to sound like “Mr. Bill” from earlier episodes of SNL!]

If you do that, then you will be like THEM...lack of civility! I personally think attacking the problem, not the person, is always the best recourse of action. As you already indicated, “they mean well”, so attacking the problem will reveal the core of the problem which usually has nothing to do with the individual person.

[dscluchfc]

Originally Posted by klevan

Here are the objectives in the Constitution and Bylaws that I drafting for a Unit of New Mexico MAL Contents:

• To routinely conduct outings (campouts and caravans) of the Unit membership for the purpose of visiting places of scenic beauty, geological interest, or historical significance with a minimum amount of organization and structure;
• To encourage and assist fellow Airstream enthusiasts, within and without the Unit, in the selection, purchase, maintenance, restoration, and renovation of Airstream products of all ages;
• To involve interested non-Airstream owners in Unit activities so as to disseminate information and encourage Airstream ownership;
• To encourage Airstream product owners not actively involved in WBCCI activities to participate in Unit activities with the goal of Unit membership;
• To encourage the fun, safe and enjoyable operation of Airstream products with other Airstream enthusiasts;
• To coordinate with, and participate in where practical, other Units, Regions and International activities;
• To disseminate relevant information of an educational or advisory that may be of value to its members;
• To encourage government and private agencies to continue upgrading the quantity and quality of public and private recreational vehicle parks and facilities.

What do you think?

Looks like by-laws and politics to me.
I spent near 20 years dealing with a political action committee, by-laws, meetings, group politics, ad naseaum....
I bought an Airstream because it is better construction, has great resale, and has a cult like mystique that interests others.
I have not joined the Lubbock TX unit because it is a bunch that is predominately over 70, mired in the past and local politics of personalities, and is looking for someone 20 years younger to indoctrinate into doing things THEIR way..."the way they've always been done"....without them having to do it.
Me: NOT INTERESTED.
I want to go places, see things, meet interesting people and not be bothered with all that MAL-arky.
If that means being an INDEPENDENT, and not a member of WBCCI in any way...so be it.
Ken, just reading your "by-laws" above made my head hurt and made me think...how is this different than what already exists?
More rules, more politics, more committees.....

[LuminumTraila]

Originally Posted by rgesch

I am in the wrong organization! Thank god on this "long strange trip" I have met the wonderful people I have.

I don't know about anyone else but that bunch of baloney isn't my objectve. My objective is to travel as much as I can, meet as many people as I can and have as much fun doing it as I can.

Maybe that's where we have to start to change this club. A collective shared vison of NEW OBJECTIVES! FUN FUN FUN It's a camping club for goodness sake!

It might take a while to bring your unit around, but it's worth everything you're putting into it just to save it for future members and those who've joined but aren't attending because some of the problems you describe. My hat's off to you for trying to work things out. It's a lot for a volunteer. I think you mentioned when I last saw you that you didn't join WBCCI because you were looking for another job. Amen to that!

Maybe some of us in Region 1 can help since there are a few of us who are thinking the same. Something like a Region 1/Forums/Just Camping Club under the WBCCI umbrella, and without all the baloney. (Gosh, I just love baloney when it's fried. ) I wonder if there's any mechanism for that in place, or if we would have to create one. I'm thinking of something that would allow us to keep our unit membership, voting rights, etc., and still gather informally with members of our unit and other units with WBCCI sanctioning for insurance purposes, etc. (Unit membership with MALpractice insurance? )

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by dougjamie

I wonder if there's any mechanism for that in place, or if we would have to create one. I'm thinking of something that would allow us to keep our unit membership, voting rights, etc., and still gather informally with members of our unit and other units with WBCCI sanctioning for insurance purposes, etc. (Unit membership with MALpractice insurance? )

I think it already exists...its called "host a Rendezvous". Make it a "buddy-rendezvous", if you want to invite non-wbcci/airstream owners.

[myboyburt]

Originally Posted by chuck

I think it already exists...its called "host a Rendezvous". Make it a "buddy-rendezvous", if you want to invite non-wbcci/airstream owners.

Yes, but there are WBCCI rules in place for Buddy Rallys or Rendezvous too: