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Old 08-15-2006, 07:13 AM   #169
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Thor = Evil? It depends on your point of view. If you’re a small entrepreneur trying to squeak out a partial living by supporting owners and users of ALL years of A**stream product – then they’ve done an excellent Emperor Palpatine impersonation. They forced ownership and licensing issues with many when they simply COULD have chosen to embrace that others were putting in time and effort that in the end helped elevate the brand. THOR chose not too -- a light saber to the chest. They unleashed the anti-marketing director, Darth Vader, and enlisted a band of Storm Troopers (licensing folks) to hunt down the resistance and terminate them one by one!

Your lack of understanding as to the why's and where for's of protecting a logo/trademark, especially one of iconic value like Airstream, certainly questions the credibility of the above statement.
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Old 08-15-2006, 10:18 AM   #170
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Thanks Denis for the sanity on the logo/brand thing.

The proposed agreement regarding the use of the word Airstream by WBCCI said that the org can use the trade name in the same way they have used "Wally Byam" - this isn't the kind of control imposition that some seem to be asserting. It is a reasonable limitation regarding gross misuse IMHO.

All of this Airstream Inc taint on WBCCI seems to be so in line with the 60's political ideology that any money is inherently corrupt and corps are evil.

The fact is, though, that Airstream Inc is a primary grantor to the benefit of WBCCI and is represented by a non voting member on the WBCCI governing board. Up to 1979 or so, the primary form of grant was in the form of headquarters staff for the organization. This level of support and recognition is not out of line with usual and customary nonprofit organization practice as far as I can tell. Nothing presented to date that I can see shows any evidence undue influence by Airstream Inc on the WBCCI governance in an innapropriate manner.

I do agree that Airstream Inc has been overly agressive in regards to their intellectual property but I also understand that that is the nature of things these days. From their position, it is better to claim and loose than the loose because you didn't claim. (I just wish they'd be more competent in their efforts but I do understand how expensive that can be, too).

What I do see is a smoke screen of unhappiness and disatisfaction in some quarters seeking something to explain itself. Sometimes some issues worthy of serious consideration arise from this smoke but I think the Airstream Inc conspiracy theories and IP issues are not any of those.
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Old 08-15-2006, 12:07 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis4x4
They unleashed the anti-marketing director, Darth Vader, and enlisted a band of Storm Troopers (licensing folks) to hunt down the resistance and terminate them one by one!

Your lack of understanding as to the why's and where for's of protecting a logo/trademark, especially one of iconic value like Airstream, certainly questions the credibility of the above statement.

hi denis4x4....and others

this was a well placed observation and comment...thanks for playing!

you will find statement credibility a common theme in exchanges here on some topics and with some posters...

gt65...

thanks for reducing the number of units.....i couldn't edit my post from 1400...and i wasn't quoting the new edition of the blue beret either....the new pres made some nearly great comments...i've already noted this.

you've been doing so well with such nice posts...
but if we get back into the hot subjects....will old habits return?

you know that 'darth' was leashed up quickly, after we had fun with him here...and really all he did was try to explain why protecting the brand was important...also he and a/s were roundly bashed for delaying 'air' forums stickers...when in fact it was the list/forum owner that caused the primary delay...that whole story has been well covered and documented...so why suggest otherwise?

please provide ANY examples of thor/beatrice or airstream doing anything to hurt the club...ANYTHING

in addition you also know that 'darth' no longer works for a/s...and that he has been replaced by another guy with the same first name....you are aware of this right?

as for the gloves...
it was not the product but the corporate NAME chosen by the company making the product...that was the BIG ISSUE....as i recall.

this international company was trying to use the name 'airstreamz' which was cute but did pull to closely to an iconic name....besides their new corportate name is much better and describes their products better...

http://www.slipstreamz.com/index.asp

now they have aero ear covers for cyclist...neat.

my view is airstream helped them with the challenge....and as a result they have found a better identity and can make a name for themselves now...

bryan...i enjoy your posts....

moreso now that i understand your professional side. this is good stuff...

but the wb hardly embraces mals....
tolerates the category would be closer descripiton....
and takes the money....

if only a few folks in isolation reported negatives,
related to mal membership...you might be correct....

but lots of mals, from all regions and over time,
report examples of what is said to them,
or how they have been treated at wb functions and by members and officers.

except for attempts to recruit them into a unit...virtually all other club exchanges with members on the mal topic is negative....and when this negative attitude and behavior is so common....it begins to represent the 'club position'...since the club IS the members...

i am not refering to j/c staff. they are polite and neutral on the issue...
but at the officer and established member level...

i do wonder when they will stop kicking the dog...

cheers
2air'
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Old 08-15-2006, 01:30 PM   #172
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but lots of mals, from all regions and over time, report examples of what is said to them, or how they have been treated at wb functions and by members and officers.
You know how it is with statistics and perceptions...

I do not agree with your "virtually all" and I do not agree that the experiences you describe properly represent the policy or intent of WBCCI as an organization.

But I do agree that there is a hubris problem with a number of people in the classes you identified that needs to be addressed. And I don't think this problem is strictly an MAL problem as it is one others have experienced as well. I am an "established member" and have been on the receiving end so let's don't split up the army if we don't need to. We all need to get together to create positive change.

New discovery (for me, anyway) WBCCI Youth to add to WBCCI Caravans these, to me, are additional symptoms of the same problem.
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Old 08-15-2006, 01:43 PM   #173
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An opinion

Back in the day WBCCI chose to have a delegate system. That was what they thought would be best for the organization. (WARNING OPINION) I think that the world has changed and it is now possible with modern communications that WBCCI should move to a one person one vote system. That one simple change would revolutionize WBCCI. It would be able to rapidly change/ bend/ flex to meet its changing members needs.
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Old 08-15-2006, 08:38 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
Did you have trouble getting a sticker? I think I had mine in a couple of weeks…


NOPE – it was the PRODUCT not the corporate name. Try this link –
http://dayton.bizjournals.com/dayton...06/story3.html
gt65 i never did see the glove story...thanks for the link.

that is pretty cool...
our little tin hut maker taking on the big l.a. putz'z...good job.

and it looks like those gloves have a small patch of aluminum sewn in...


sorry i cannot benefit from the recording...no can hear.

not only DID i get stickers...well i can't show ya what else i got...not yet.

cheers
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Old 08-15-2006, 11:29 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT

Thor CHOSE to chase after any and all regardless. They've even chased an apparel manufacturer -- one that makes ski gloves.
I am glad they did. People were asking me all the time " why was I wearing airstreams on my hands ?" and "do they still make those things ?"

I have to admit, it was really hard to ski with an airstream on each hand.



Leo, I did have one note to add here. During the time I had my antique Ford parts side biz. Ford sent ME a letter saying that they were going to grandfather me in on using their logo and brand names, Falcon/Mercury/Comet and the assoc. logos. In essence, they gave me permission to use the logos I had been using ( in the way I was using them ) but, if I want to do anything new with my advertising I had to submit it to them first. I have since sold the biz and the inventory. It came to mind though with your post here.

I got the feeling that they felt that too many people were doing whatever they wanted with the FORD names and assoc logos. I was very small potatoes compared to the large reproduction companies out there. I was pretty surprised I got the letter at all.
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Old 08-16-2006, 09:01 AM   #176
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Ford doesn't get it anymore. There has recently been a stink raised as Ford went out and started telling everyone to stop using their registered names (even the people they had agreed to grandfather in a few years ago - good thing you're not in the biz anymore, Chris). Companies that thought they had an agreement with Ford are now being told the 800 pound gorrila has changed it's mind, and customers are wondering how they are going to find their Mustang parts when none of the businesses will have the name "Mustang" in them anymore. There has been a lot of wailing and letter righting and petition signing going on about it. Apparently Ford has no interest in supporting their huge and loyal fan base.
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Old 08-16-2006, 09:28 AM   #177
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I'd suggest anyone interested _read_ the proposed contract between Aistream and WBCCI. The degree of venom and hyperbole in the attacks on the contract should be enough to create skepticism, IMHO, so read carefully and avoid bias. Its around here somewhere.

As far as the tradename, check sources such as Trademark Disputes: Who Wins, Who Loses & Why - Summary - Law Store - Nolo and then check the United States Patent and Trademark Office Home Page to search for trademarks - last I looked, Ohio alone has 5 - 10 companies with 'Airstream' as a part of their trademark.

Why is this relevant? I think it is because, from what I see, a lot of the MALcontent dialog I see appears to me to be ill informed and over zealous in just the way this corp envy and legal interpretation for fault seems to me to be.

Chill out. Let's go campin'.
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Old 08-21-2006, 11:11 AM   #178
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While we are on the topic...

I am about to sign up as a WBCCI member. My boyfriend and I are also about to leave for a fulltiming adveture. we are anticipating being out on the road for several years. We are considering being MAL, but concerned we won't be getting all the discounts we could get if we were Unit members. Do these unit member discounts only apply in the region you are a unit member to? In that case it wouldnt make sense for us to be unit members. And if we were, what do we choose. we live in New York City currently, we are restoring the AS in New Hampshire, and that's where our "homebase" is located for mail, etc. yet we plan on ending up in Los Angeles years from now for permenany residency, but that could be in years after full timing.. any advice. I'm not interested in poltics, I like the idea of keeping the wally bayam name alive. We want to wear berets as our driving hats, and we'd like to attend rallies here and there, yet not have to vote, etc.
we plan on boondocking most of the time too.. help!!!
thanks!!

-Kelly + Bill
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Old 08-21-2006, 11:40 AM   #179
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It really doesn't matter what unit you join in your case...you could join any, or none. Joining a unit would be cheaper than going "mal"...unit dues amounts vary, with the WDCU being the cheapest. Whichever way you go, there aren't any "discounts" involved. any wbcci member can attend any wbcci function for the same fee as any other member. I'm not aware of any "residency" requirement for joining any unit, but for "fixed base" campers, , I guess the idea is that you join (and thereby support) the unit with which you will be camping the most. in your case, that doesn't really apply...but it might someday.
You're certainly welcome to join the NewEngland unit. We're having a rally in NH in September. Come on down and see us!
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Old 08-21-2006, 12:37 PM   #180
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discounts we could get if we were Unit members

Quote:
Originally Posted by harestream
I am about to sign up as a WBCCI member. My boyfriend and I are also about to leave for a fulltiming adveture. we are anticipating being out on the road for several years. We are considering being MAL, but concerned we won't be getting all the discounts we could get if we were Unit members. ... we plan on ending up in Los Angeles years from now for permenany residency, but that could be in years after full timing.. any advice. I'm not interested in poltics, I like the idea of keeping the wally bayam name alive. We want to wear berets as our driving hats, and we'd like to attend rallies here and there, yet not have to vote, etc.
we plan on boondocking most of the time too.. help!!!
thanks!!

-Kelly + Bill
Kelly + Bill,
Consider this proposed new unit. The emphasis will not be on politics but more on camping, especially boondocking. Plan to conduct most business via e-mail so we can have minimal dues. We have prospective members in;
AZ 3
CA 1
CO 3
NM 7
OR 1
http://www.airstreamingnewmexico.inf...unit_index.htm
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Old 08-21-2006, 01:47 PM   #181
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the other washington unit.........

hi rabbit campers....

actually there are some discounts available....

for example if you plan to use any of the airstream only parks...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/249550-post5.html

and make it all the way to washington state....not 2 b confused with wdcu.

might be good idea just to take a peak at porky/petunia's website....

http://www.trailergypsies.com/

they've been full time'n for a couple of years now....LOTS of sage advice from this gypsy couple.

if one decides to buy a time share/unit, it is worth checking to see if being a regular/affiliate member of the local unit is required.

also some units require new members to personally attend at least one function. this is one of the sillier requirements imo.

just join as a mal and get rolling. figure if/what unit later.

although joining the new 4 corners unit would be a good thing.

cheers
2air'
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Old 08-21-2006, 03:13 PM   #182
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Kelly + Bill:

A MAL only misses on the voting and officer privileges. That's it.

You should be welcome at every WBCCI sponsored event including all rallies and caravans. You should be welcome to visit those who have indicated courtesy parking in the directory.

There are organizations like the Escapees RV Club that are more focused on the full time experience that you might want to check out as well.

You can also join more than one WBCCI Unit if you find reason to do so. This is arranged as a primary 'voting' Unit and then as affiliate for the others. This is one way to support those Units that you want to keep in touch with and support.

Get out, have fun, make new friends!
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