Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-10-2006, 10:12 PM   #155
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
Have you NOT been reading my stuff for the last 6 months? __
actually no i haven't...

so 1 vote/1 member great....

yes there was a program for ALL new buyers of any old trailer...
don't know how many took part....and if there was ANY record of having been a member in years back....could not apply for this...
but the wbcci staff considered it too much work for too little reward....

ok, lets skip the small-old-dead-lunch-is-a-rally-units...

how many are left?

anybody...wild guess?

see membership counts are meaning less without vital signs...

one reason such small numbers are allowed to drive votes...

most units are 'enjoyed' ( i cringe using that word here) by very few of their membership...

so 65' give me 4 reasons why i want to be IN the wbcci...

bonus points if ya can justify the membership fees...

cheers
2air'
__________________

__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2006, 10:25 PM   #156
Rivet Master
 
wheel interested's Avatar
 
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer , Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
lets skip the small-old-dead-lunch-is-a-rally-units...

one reason such small numbers are allowed to drive votes...

most units are 'enjoyed' by very few of their membership...

so 65' give me 4 reasons why i want to be IN the wbcci...

bonus points if ya can justify the membership fees...

cheers
2air'
I would really like to know about the membership fees too. It seems a lot (perhaps not compared to Airstream costs) but why do we need to pay for the privilege of being a member? I actually remember a past president offering to pay us to attend!
__________________

__________________
Caroljb



photography
wheel interested is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2006, 11:03 PM   #157
Rivet Master
 
wheel interested's Avatar
 
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer , Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,039
I was thinking more along the lines of why would a non-member join. Yes the people are THE reason, but one can attend the functions as a buddy often paying their rally fees. I have not researched it but I think it's nice to know and a good checks and balance to know how and why the "kitty" would you call it? got to the size it is and if it would ever hold at any ceiling.

Any way I would add that to the list along with the voting procedures and updating events and efficiency. A nice headliner of current popularity for entertainment or battle of the bands (no-not big band era muzak) and a little razzle dazzle and charm could go far. Maybe local taste of the host city's restauranteurs. But that's an international or state rally. Local rallies could be punched up, not tours of manufacturing plants and retirement villages and shopping malls or antique stores.

I think the number one reason for becoming a MAL is to disassociate onesself from a local unit and not with a look to a priority of a vote or fees.
__________________
Caroljb



photography
wheel interested is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2006, 11:26 PM   #158
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
ok 65gt....

see we joined for the same reasons.....

i wanted the red numbers....

i love the red numbers....

the connection to history....

ah...but the club...

red tape, red lines, red signs....

did you not see all the red signs?

but how long does that red glow last?

i travel. i want a travel club.

like wheel notes....tours of casket factories scare me.

i want large units.....

not a church on every corner....

well unless taverns are in equal supply...

ok enough about milwaukee

the husband wife leadership teams, the camping only on asphault...

not with my red numbers!

young members want family things...

working folks shorter, simpler things...

pot lucks really don't need a committee...

lets go camping!

someone asked for a list of the international rally functions for children...

i will send it to them...it is short.

see the int. rally isn't camping. it's a legislative event.

now back to membership value...what do i get now for the fee?

already got the numbers....they are mine.

except for the legal needs....

everything i need to know about the wb should fit on 2 pages....no..1 page.

i don't mind giving either along with the fee...but not by rank and file.


most big committee stuff...with all the ribbons,

is treated like being head of senate arms committee...get it and keep it.

do new members really need a sponsor?
does going camping require a mentor....

truth is learning to play in the club by the club rules, is why newmembers need training...get with the program...rank and file.


no it's not the people...
all clubs have people. most of the finest people i know....don't own airstreams...

we join because of the travel, the adventure, the myth of wally....

red numbers i got'em....

wally would be a mal.........

i've seen his face in the rock wall

2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2006, 07:26 AM   #159
Rivet Master
 
streamer23's Avatar
 
NOVA SCOTIA , CANADA
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,448
Images: 18
Leipper this may surprise you

[quote=Leipper]If I understand right, WBCCI hit peak membership about 1980 with 12k - 15k members. Mike probably has better accuracy on this.


Hi Bryan,

I have a 19th International hardcover Rallybook on the rally in Louisville Kentucky in 1976.Within the book is an article written by Helen Byam Schwamborn about the history of WBCCI.In that article she states that for 1976,WBCCI membership had grown to over 25,000 families and approximately 80,000 members.
I would guess that 1976 was the year that WBCCI membership peaked. Those are BIG numbers compared to current membership,approximately 4 times greater than today .
__________________
Mike

AIR #7916
Ex WBCCI #32083
streamer23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2006, 07:56 AM   #160
Rivet Master
 
LuminumTraila's Avatar
 
2006 19' Safari SE
NW of Boston , Massachusetts
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 987
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
someone asked for a list of the international rally functions for children...

i will send it to them...it is short.
2air'
2air -- Sorry to sidetrack -- that was me askin' about Int'l rally and children. If you have the info, I'd like to see it. Thanks!

-Jamie
__________________
Doug & Jamie, AIR #650
LuminumTraila is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2006, 10:03 PM   #161
Moderator
 
moosetags's Avatar

 
2015 25' FB Flying Cloud
2012 23' FB Flying Cloud
2005 25' Safari
Santa Rosa Beach , Florida
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,763
Images: 5
WBCCI Membership

We joined before we really knew what the club was. We ended up as MALs because the Pensacola unit would never answer our emails. We are also mainly in it for the numbers. Lucy really looks cool with her numbers. As a matter of fact, an Aitstream doesn't look like a "real" Airstream without the big red numbers.
__________________
SuEllyn & Brian McCabe
WBCCI #3628 -- AIR #14872 -- TAC #FL-7
2015 FC 25' FB (Lucy) with HAHA
2005 Suburban 2500 Quadrasteer (Olivia) & 2018 Silverado 2500 (Lillian)
moosetags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2006, 01:42 PM   #162
3 Rivet Member
 
SierraBreeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 127
Images: 4
clarification

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
and at one time airstream owned the wbcci and the club prospered....
This isn't quite accurate. Over the past few months I have been having a conversation with Pee Wee (Dale Schwamborn), Wally Byam's second cousin. Pee Wee's mother, Helen was the person Wally chose to be the first director of WBCCI. It was largely because of Helen that the club prospered. For a summary of the beginning of WBCCI you might want to read what Pee Wee has to say.

http://sierranevadaairstreams.org/me...beginning.html
__________________
Diane
WBCCI # 772
Sierra Nevada Unit #157
http://sierranevadaairstreams.org
SierraBreeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2006, 02:52 PM   #163
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
hi diane

thanks for the post...

since we all seem to agree the club prospered...

and i fully agree ms helen was a key to the club success.

i'll assume the 'ownership' issue is the point of contention...

i'll make my case regarding ownership backward...

when thor purchased airstream, they did not purchase any club assets...

prior to the purchase, beatrice foods had liberated the wb...in 1979/80 or so. fully and legally liberated the wbcci...

a new building was built for the wb in jackson center....
at the opposite end of town and on the opposite side of the street.
in other words as far away physically as it could be positioned....

for me this was symbolic of the the 'new' independence...

also much of the legal work was redone at this time. incorporation, non profit statis and so on....a/s did own the club and lots of paper was needed to complete the split....i also suspect the 'legal side' of ownership and financing club operations wasn't discussed...till beatrice divested the club.....perhaps THIS is why so many folks think beatrice...ruined airstream?

imo this did mark the full split/separation...along with a new owner for airstream.
your reference is good history but makes no mention of these issues...

since that time,
the company has provided financial support, people power, printing, organizational assistance and a variety of other support. every time the club has needed help or asked for help a/s has quietly stepped up....

this isn't bad for a/s or the wb. but the wb is quick to brag...'we are the only rv/travel club not owner/affilitated with a manufacturer...' and that is misleading.

gungho guys like 65gt who get involved now, somehow imagine a/s thor is evil and hurts the club...that control is the goal...and so on...

none of that is true, but part of a myth maintained by wb folks....this myth backfires now and works against the club's future.

anyway history is always contested...and full of lies...these are mine....and i'm sticking to em!

now for the link....that piece is great....just like the entire snu website...full of really really good stuff...

this segment especially appeals to me....
perhaps now some of you will see my relationship to the originals....

Jack Rabbits


Dale (Pee Wee) Schwamborn

In the early days of WBCCI an ad hoc group formed that would be instrumental in advocating for the organizing of a club for Airstreamers. This group called themselves Jack Rabbits. These are Pee Wee's recollections of the Jack Rabbits.
Introduction

I believe that they organized themselves from the traveling together on the early Caravans, and picked up some of their members from early Airstream rallies.
The actual selection of the "Jack Rabbit" name is unknown to me. It was probably selected to show their maverick ways, group solidarity, and even out ahead of the others. At one time on a Caravan if someone passed the lead vehicle they were referred to as jack rabbits.
I have an 8 x 10 trailer plaque of a jack rabbit. These members proudly affixed this to their Airstreams.
These were feisty Airstreamer's. They made sure that the Club stayed pure and for the members. Good people. Great people. And my friends on the 1st Caravan ( some of them) and through my Club and Caravan years.
Directory

Jack Rabbit member directory (pdf) - Here are the Jack Rabbits. You will see that Wally and Stel were honorary members.
Comments from Pee Wee

While walking this morning I thought about the "Jack Rabbits."
Here are my thoughts. I looked at the names on their roster and memories of each came back with their faces. And I thought about this specific group and what they did for the Club, Wally, Stel and my Mother. After all these years I can stand back and evaluate those days, and write about them.
There is always a group of go getters on Caravans and in the Club. The first ones there to set up, organize and make themselves available for whatever duties are required.
This may sum up the “Jack Rabbits.” This is the support they gave on Caravans before the Club, and the interest and service they gave at Club and Airstream functions, after the formation of the Club
Wally, Stel and my Mother were always under their care. They knew the schedules and demands that Wally, Stel and my Mother had to meet.
They did this our of love, and caring. It was never a name dropping association. It was true devotion.
They were there when Trailer 1 (Wally and Stel) or 2 (Helen and Pee Wee) pulled in. Here’s your parking place. What can we do to help you? Gopher holes appeared, water connections were made, the trailers were unhitched. You name it and they assisted.
During the day they would stop by the trailer and ask is there something we can do for you, we are going into town to shop? Do you want to come along?
They were the first ones to bring up foreseeable problems that might effect the Club. This is where their feistiness came in. They wanted to protect the Club and the Way of Life from any situation that would undermine the Club.
They were like the Knights Templar of old, of Knights Errand. Protectors of the Club, Wally, Stel and my Mother.
These were the “Jack Rabbits.”
Adendum
Knock, knock,knock. "Helen, have you and Pee Wee had dinner? No. Well come over we're having meatloaf and macaroni and cheese." Or 'We'll bring it over. - Very generous people.
Do not misunderstand, there was a large aggregate of Caravaners and Club member that supported Wally, Stel and my Mother. It's just that the names on the "Jack Rabbit" roster stand out, in my memories


again thanks for the post and a chance to brag about my dead bunny ancestors........

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2006, 03:29 PM   #164
3 Rivet Member
 
SierraBreeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 127
Images: 4
Smile

2Air

I see what you are talking about and understand. It can be a rather confusing issue. You are right that I didn't delve into the issues you presented. I was focusing on other aspects. As you say, the part I had concerns about was your comment that Airstream "owned" WBCCI. To me the keys are that Wally always saw Airstream and WBCCI as two separate entities. He created the Airstream Sales entity to house the fledgling club but control for the club was essential his and Helen's. If I get this correctly it was when Beatrice bought Airstream that WBCCI moved out from under the Airstream Sales entity thus totally elimiating that aspect of the relationship. That was also after Helen retired. So maybe it was a combination of both of those factors plus others that led to some of the issues we are facing today.

Now the mud is getting thicker or the picture is getting clearer. Thanks.

Why doesn't it suprize me that you like the Jack Rabbits BTW Pee Wee did want to share his material but he has concerns about where and how. That's why we added that note at the bottom of his pages.
__________________
Diane
WBCCI # 772
Sierra Nevada Unit #157
http://sierranevadaairstreams.org
SierraBreeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2006, 05:00 PM   #165
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraBreeze
If I get this correctly it was when Beatrice bought Airstream that WBCCI moved out from under the Airstream Sales entity thus totally elimiating that aspect of the relationship.


well s'breeze...

that's close.
perhaps still not clear enough. the split came when beatrice SOLD airstream....

many great things happened in the 70s...more holding tanks, bigger trailers, extra features, more sales and finally profitability. these things happened during the beatrice years...

when beatrice prepared to SELL a/s they did what lots of owners do...cleaned house.

to make a/s attractive for buyers...they tried to reduce or eliminate things that might clutter the front yard. the club cost money...it cost beatrice money. it was another thing to manage and so on. it distracted from the bottom line. so the wb was given it's freedom and a handsome kitty.

when thor purchased a/s the wb was no longer owned by a/s...or at least in the final stages of separation...

now, back to subjects closer to the thread...

why not embrace mal folks...why not allow a 'national unit'

why not reduce regions? why not reduce unit #s... do we really need 1400 units?
what would be the downside to fewer units or regions...

clearly fewer international officers and committees and ranks and so on would be a good thing?

some folks are camped for free at the international for 5 weeks....
is that really needed or a wise way to spend club funds?

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2006, 05:45 PM   #166
Rivet Master
 
1975 29' Ambassador
Reno , Nevada
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
why not embrace mal folks...why not allow a 'national unit' ... what would be the downside to fewer units or regions... some folks are camped for free at the international for 5 weeks....
is that really needed or a wise way to spend club funds?
This collection covers a very broad scope from ideology and identity to politics to low level management. Whew!

To me, the "why not embrace mal?" question is like asking 'when did you stop beating your wife?" -- The only 'official' lack of embrace for MAL's is that of voting - and there is both a good rationale for that and good precedent in large association practice. The very fact that such a membership category exists is, to me, significant evidence that MAL's are indeed embraced and welcome - or at least the official policy is such. The kind of problems encountered with some individuals needs to be addressed as they do not reflect what the club is about.

The issue of Units and Regions has a lot to do with the inherent nature of the organization and its identity. WBCCI is not the SKP comprised mostly of rootless(!) full timers. Shorter distances make a difference. Locality makes a difference. Consider a Unit as a group that can get together without anyone needing more than a full day's travel from home and the implications of that. The idea of so many Units is that it is one way to accomodate (PC warning!) diversity in interests and capabilities.

The concept of a Region has a number of fairly important issues behind it. For one, an organization like WBCCI will often have a board of twenty or so as that is a good group size for the necessary functions. For another, there is the locale thing but a bit broader to encompass the resources necessary to do some things a Unit usually can't do. I think the Region structure right now, though, is a weak link in WBCCI.

The third point hits several levels. Usually the incremental cost is very small and the gain rather large so it can be a very effective use of club funds. On the other hand, it can be abused and misused and that can lead to discord and adverse consequences.

On another note: thanks Mike. From the Directory it looks like the WBCCI I'Rally was at nearly 4k attendance from about 1975 through 1986. If the approx 20% membership attendance has held then that implies a bit over 20k in membership during that period. It is interesting that this WBCCI peak period didn't start until well after Beatrice bought up Airstream and lasted until well after Thor picked it up and Helen retired.

Heavy stuff! Good for a grad student in business or history, I think
__________________
bryanl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2006, 05:48 PM   #167
Rivet Master
 
clancy_boy's Avatar
 
2003 22' International CCD
Kiln , Mississippi
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,780
Images: 8
Me Too....

Quote:
Originally Posted by moosetags
We joined before we really knew what the club was. We ended up as MALs because the Pensacola unit would never answer our emails. We are also mainly in it for the numbers. Lucy really looks cool with her numbers. As a matter of fact, an Aitstream doesn't look like a "real" Airstream without the big red numbers.
That's funny, I had the same reason, that and I did't want to be excluded from a future rally if I wanted to go at the last minute.
__________________
Michael & Tina with Layla and Preston BZ
The family has grown.
2003 22' INTERNATIONAL CCD
clancy_boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2006, 07:52 PM   #168
3 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
2005 22' Interstate
Afton , Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 226
Those RED Numbers

Well, I just got mine in the mail today. I also got a set of instructions about how and where to install them.
My question is:
Has anybody installed them on an Interstate "B"?
If so, did you follow those instructions??

Sorry for intruding into the philosophy and history lesson, since these RED numbers were mentioned, just thought I'd zoom in.
regards
But, I would like to know......
__________________

__________________
herrgirdner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.