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Old 08-09-2006, 04:41 PM   #141
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Please make it stop!

Chuck and 2airishuman...I'll make a deal with you both. If you both stop right now, I will give both of you good karma. Deal?
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Old 08-09-2006, 04:47 PM   #142
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uber, cold and others....

didn't mention the bmw side because harleys are more common.

sure they buy shirts...in fact the average harley owner spends more on aftermarket items that the bike! is that good well for the vendors it is...

just imagine at rallys we could drag race the trailers...

swap 'first ladies' or 'first gents'...

get tattoos of wally or stella on our curved panels...

i could go on....for ubers sake... but won't for chucks...

the bmw group is great too..car or bike owners assocation...

i used the hd example because everyone that buys a bike is given club membership...with so few unit sales any airstream club needs every new buyer to work with up front...

new buyers/members should be considered club CUSTOMERS...(not the lowest ranking 'first timers'..currently given nothing by the wbcci). the club should be focused on keeping most of these folks...and all current owners of any year....

almost none of the modern lifestyle/product clubs....

are based on the format/model of wbcci....which is much closer to the vfw, lyons club, masons, shriners... and other hat wear'n service organizations...

is one model better than the other? no but one model is dieing quickly and the other is not....

there are fewer and fewer folks that really WANT to work through the ranks as an 8th vp up to pres...and that is a good thing because most people are terrible at leading or being an officer....

charters are short, goals focused on fun.

the problem is wbcci isn't gonna just go away...
and is unlike to burn the blue book and start over...
which is the only real way for the wb to be THE club....

the current mix of god, boy scouts, military and alzheimers...
isn't gonna cut it....

where did i put my holding tank yarn?

cheers
2air'
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Old 08-09-2006, 04:58 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yukionna
Chuck and 2airishuman...I'll make a deal with you both. If you both stop right now, I will give both of you good karma. Deal?
yuki...
i think that is sweet of you.
my comments have been on the issue at hand,
while not in the majority opinion to post about it....so far.
i don't consider any of your posts as negative or personal...
and certainly polite.

i didn't take a cheap shot at 3 o'clock...
but i will defend my right to think and comment
besides there is a hidden agenda at hand....

don't worry i'm done with that and moved on...

but your concern is noted and appreciated.

lets keep at the issues...

seems rgesch also suggested thinking outside the box?

that is a might large field of ideas...surely mine fit there...

and knocking ideas isn't knocking people

cheers
2air'
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Old 08-09-2006, 06:35 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdEspresso
Their rally, which recently ended in Vermont, had business meetings, informational seminars, and FUN ACTIVITIES. Nobody (even other brands of MC's) was excluded from participating! That is why sales of this brand has increased dramatically over the years. The more people are involved in a club at their level, the more they will participate, and the more they will be loyal to the brand.
Wasn't the rally great! Over 9000 bikers! BMWMOA does a great International rally everytime.

Kathleen
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Old 08-09-2006, 06:45 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
and knocking ideas isn't knocking people

cheers
2air'
No, but this is knocking people, people who are members of WBCCI...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
the current mix of god, boy scouts, military and alzheimers...
isn't gonna cut it
It's also not true. Many of us in WBCCI don't fall into your description.

-J
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Old 08-09-2006, 07:02 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougjamie
No, but this is knocking people, people who are members of WBCCI...It's also not true. Many of us in WBCCI don't fall into your description.-J
well dougjamie...

i wasn't clear enough...
this mix isn't the people...
it is the MODEL for the club..
the charter, rules, regs, books, proceedures and so on...
reread my post...with this thought...
i was referring to the club charter model...

in editing the post...this statement ended up in the wrong spot...

i was trying to briefly suggest the model is based on traditional christian organizations, many features of the original boy scouts of american, military rank and heirarcy and deployment...and NOW some forgetfullness...a drift from the basic simple wally creeds...with way to much policy written now...


so i have read the rules, have read the charters and so on....
my reference isn't to the people at all, i hope you will believe that

i am a member of the club too,
i don't fit this description either....
the fact that folks in the club or considering the club
do not fit that description is exactly why the model
doesn't work well anymore and doesn't appeal to a wider group...

many happy folks in the club are happy
BECAUSE they just ignore what is written....don't your agree?

so i wasn't clear and it's just an opinion anyway...

please tell me what model you think the club charter and written legacy follows? is it the best one? how should it be changed? is there already an example of a better charter, written processes and so on?

cheers
2air'
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Old 08-09-2006, 07:11 PM   #147
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Once in awhile on the Internet something drifts by that grabs me, not very often, but this one did. I've seen and joined organizations that were formless, others that were structured like a skyscraper, but nothing like this one. I wonder what a face to face meeting between all of us forum members would produce????
Chaos?
The Big Bang?
regards
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Old 08-09-2006, 07:40 PM   #148
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When we are face to face it produces great rallies, good food, and lots of laughter.

Kathleen
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Old 08-09-2006, 08:25 PM   #149
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well gt65...

that is a fine post

and you seem to be a fine young man...

and really most of your posts

have been so pleasant lately;

since the international,

that i have been left to wonder...

what happened?

it was all just a rouse wasn't it

the name change nonsense...

the warning meter show....

that kept folks distractred from the real issues....

so now lets waste keystrokes...

just to clear a few poorly directed personal pokes....

-blessed with a suitable unit...i'm in.

-i did volunteer for 3 functions at the international...

-my first opportunity to do so...how many for you?

-would you like to hear about all 3...no of course not.

-how could you possibly know when or if i've made something happen...

-my 25+ years of a/s ownership...to your what?

-i don't own a harley...or any doaner cycle...

-who's gonna ride away...shall we make a wager?

-skipping ahead..... to causing a stir?

-and isn't this recent string of posts today

-exactly about someone who caused a stir

-or didn't or did...

-while in frustration 'leaving the club' or not?

so which issue would you like to discuss...

i've been thinking about the charter...

or the small rally requirements,

or the flag ceremony...

and the almost malcontent

that wanted to burn it down...

to renew it again

your short line phrasing is nice....

so much easier to read...

thanks!

the next challenge for you...

is make a post about an issue

don't redirect it toward me...pick a real issue

that you thnk the wb should address

come on can ya do it? try your best!

or is it like all the wasted name change effort...

a card trick...that never was gonna happen anyway

a slight of hand

that keeps things just as they are...

or would you rather pull the rabbit out of a hat?

cheers
2air'
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Old 08-09-2006, 09:32 PM   #150
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I've been watching this thread unfold and degenerate.

So I say in the style of the day...

Put away the rancor...

Set aside the haughtines...

Debate all ideas...

Freely and openly...

Make your corner of the club what you want it to be...

Change what you don't like...

Keep what you do...

We're all in this together...
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Old 08-09-2006, 10:13 PM   #151
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well i haven't a clue 2 what you elude

looking again and agreeing, sort of with pres shafers comments...

"we must be sensitive....to all potential members in our consideration of the future. all i can be sure of is times and people are changing and if the wbcci is to continue, some mangaged changes may be necessary."

see he almost gets it right...suggesting IF the wb is to continue...removing the forgone conclusion that it will or can....

and using the c word ...change...but managed change sounds small and 'may be necessary' would be so much more powerful as IS necessary or 'must happen'

in my view there needs to be:

1. temporary actions to keep things afloat, while
2. a completely new charter and so on, is conceived and written.

keeping things afloat is important but not so much as the complete renewal program.....keeping things afloat is a 2 year plan...or so.

my view is 2 completely separate leadership teams are needed. one for each issue...with the expectation that the group keeping things afloat is for the older currently experienced leaders...and that their jobs while evaporate when the new charter is ready....like moses they can lead us to the promise land...they do have exprerience with the now...and it's important....as an intr'm measure....

to get the club to the threshold of the new....

now the group leading the 'rebirth action' may need to come almost completely from outside the current ranks...wb/vac and so on. professionals that do these things for a living....and can base how they proceed on some club wishes, but mostly on what is proven to work for other organizations of a similar ilk....in is very hard for anyone to reinvent themselves....impossible for a committee or whole group of the same...they always regress to protecting each others status quo...with only token changes....

many in the old style group (it is not about their chonological age) will complain but with good giving leadership....they will follow.

from this holdover group...some real leaders, who have secretly wanted a new better club will emerge and THEY will become key leaders in the new charter...they just don't know their potential yet......most of the folks creating the new charter...move on to other organizations...and the membership then does their BIG part...some step forward.. .and everyone votes for a new charter, new leadership group for officers and so on.....

so hows' that leo? as a quick start idea?

2air'
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Old 08-09-2006, 10:18 PM   #152
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I trust that all of you who have thoughts and ideas about what needs to change in WBCCI have taken the time to send them to the WBCCI and not just expressed them on this forum.


Bill
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Old 08-10-2006, 09:11 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
My reply was three full word pages long. Ouch. I'm starting over..
I know what the number one issue is. For now I can't see past it -- I don't even want to think about it. That's just me though... Your mileage may vary...

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well 65gt

if your number 1 issue is one member/one vote...i like that.
if your number 1 issue is one unit member/one vote....well you lost me.

there is no good reason, for members at large, not 2 have voting rights...not now.

and i fully support getting the vote for all PAID members...DO YOU?

very quickly on your history...
during the time you site as the tide turning...
airstream owned the wbcci...and gave them their freedom...
but several times since quietly has bailed water...
for the "independent wbcci"...

do you know the first nation in the western hemisphere....
to revolt and win independence?
yes....the usa

but do you know the second nation in the western hemisphere to gain independence?...
it has not been a pretty ride for them...


my view is that club decline is related to loss of direct factory support...

just a view....

i'm all for your membership recruitment...

you do realize that...

-the wbcci had a program where ALL new owners of any trailer from any year...got a year FREE.

-that dealerships PAID for the first year for all/most buyers of new trailers...

both these programs were dropped...by the wbcci....

too many of these new recruits opted OUT for the 2nd year....

too many of those that stayed opted FOR member at large.....

wb only wanted to grow local units...locally

90%+ of the local units are too small, too old, too inactive, not 2 much fun.

we don't all live in southern california...

cheers
2air'
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Old 08-10-2006, 09:41 PM   #154
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If I understand right, WBCCI hit peak membership about 1980 with 12k - 15k members. Mike probably has better accuracy on this.

A charter or articles of incorporation is the contract between the state and the corporation that is designed to meet state incorporation laws. They are usually written as minimalist documents because they are difficult to change. They usually just state the name, purpose, and basic manner of operation and leave everything else to bylaws or other documents.

The application to the IRS for tax exempt status is much more extensive and will include the charter, the bylaws, and some other documents. It is supposed to be available to anyone on request (as are the Form 990 reports) for a simple copy fee.

There is very little correlation between the hot topics discussed about WBCCI and its basic governance documents. That tells me that charter, constitution, and bylaws are not the issue. From what I can tell, written policies aren't either. Going after these things is a diversion and a distraction, I think.

Over the last ten years or so, WBCCI has done all the usual marketing things including free first year membership for new Airstream owners. They still provide brochures and notify the designated Unit membership chair of any new Airstream owners in the Unit's area.

The membership requirements, such as adult Airstream RV owner, are a key identity issue for the organization. IMHO this hasn't received the attention it deserves in the context of organizational identity and definition. That leads to some ambiguity which, in turn, dillutes the marketing efforts.

The problems I have seen as hot discussion topics are almost always people problems. People who invent rules that aren't official. People who want to do things their own way or no way. People who rub others the wrong way. People who are fearful of change or of new venues or unfamiliar people. People with affectations who don't realize how they irritate others (especially over time). People who don't do the job they volunteered to do and others who let them slide. People who don't know what they volunteered to do and leaders who let that slide.

As individuals we can do a lot about these people problems and I see a lot of WBCCI members undertaking this responsibility in various ways. There is always more to be done as WBCCI is a living breathing thing and needs attention to its health and vitality just as any organism does.
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