How To Improve WBCCI Technology Use

[mbmbstreamer]

They also have more experience upon which their opinions are formed (aka wisdom).

Don't underestimate them or be too quick to dismiss their concerns.

[AWCHIEF]

Sadly "experience" does not always mean "wisdom" has been gained.

[Protagonist]

As long as improvements are in the form of "we have this new feature that you can use if you want" and not in the form of "we have this new feature that you must use this because we say so"…

The old, wise, experienced members who don't want to play with new technology will be under no obligation to use the new features.

The younger, less experienced but more tech-savvy members that WBCCI is trying to attract will be able to use the new features.

I fail to see the down side to this initiative.

[eubank]

Seems to me that this just boils down to an opt-in system.

Lynn

[fraubear]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

As long as improvements are in the form of "we have this new feature that you can use if you want" and not in the form of "we have this new feature that you must use this because we say so"…

The old, wise, experienced members who don't want to play with new technology will be under no obligation to use the new features.

The younger, less experienced but more tech-savvy members that WBCCI is trying to attract will be able to use the new features.

I fail to see the down side to this initiative.

Protagonist nailed it! This is precisely what we (the ECC) envision: More advanced use of technology for those members who want it. Less for those who don't. We can do that.

Just to put fears at rest, there is no plan to publish a WBCCI directory on the internet at the present time. We clearly see the advantages but also understand the concerns. Right now we have much less contentious matters to address first - the new website, perhaps a modern database and integrating the two, on-line memberships, on-line renewals through unit websites (perhaps eventually through wbcci.org). It's a long list and we are working our way through it.

We do appreciate your patience and the good ideas this discussion has given us. Don't stop now!

Carolyn
WBCCI Electronic Communications Committee

[Air Apparent]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

The old, wise, experienced members who don't want to play with new technology ...

The younger, less experienced but more tech-savvy members...

I take exception to your statement. I am up with the technology as I use it for my business. Sometimes there are issues that go beyond technology such as privacy issues.

I don't have my information published in the hard copy database (annual WBCCI directory) as I don't want it out for public consumption. I do that by not renewing until it is too late to have the information published.

I have multiple e-mail addresses but the WBCCI does not have any of them as they have no need for it. There is nothing so important from the WBCCI that I need instant communication. All the information I need related to the WBCCI I can get online from WBCCI or the units websites.

You can be condescending and arrogant because you believe that it is only the younger generation who are tech-savvy. However it doesn't make you right.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Bluebird

I take exception to your statement. I am up with the technology as I use it for my business. Sometimes there are issues that go beyond technology such as privacy issues.

I don't have my information published in the hard copy database (annual WBCCI directory) as I don't want it out for public consumption. I do that by not renewing until it is too late to have the information published.

I have multiple e-mail addresses but the WBCCI does not have any of them as they have no need for it. There is nothing so important from the WBCCI that I need instant communication. All the information I need related to the WBCCI I can get online from WBCCI or the units websites.

You can be condescending and arrogant because you believe that it is only the younger generation who are tech-savvy. However it doesn't make you right.

I apologize for upsetting you. Since you hadn't posted to this thread before, I had no way of knowing that you'd be offended. It was not my intention to upset anyone. For the record, since I'm in my mid-fifties, I'm hardly a young'un myself.

Please consider the context, since the post that caused offense was a direct reply to a couple of posts, first by dwightdi, that said, "I do not have the research to prove it, but I think the older generation is more paranoid. They are also more fearful of making mistakes and reluctant to make changes that have a remote chance that they could be blamed if a problem develops." And another by mbmbstreamer that said, "They also have more experience upon which their opinions are formed (aka wisdom)."

So, yes, I was intentionally a bit snarky, for taking the opposing viewpoint to others who previously brought age into the discussion. Again I apologize. I guess it just proves that older IS smarter, after all!

But I also posted a comment that said, "As I see it, the biggest hurdle here is to ensure that unauthorized people can't get hold of the information. No one wants to open themselves up to potential identity theft, so any means of making this information available to members MUST be secure, without making it too hard for authorized people to access."

I clearly AM aware of the privacy issues. Being aware of the issues does not automatically mean that I want to be unreachable, however.

Since I clearly am causing more problems than I'm solving, I'll unsubscribe to this thread now, and let you guys continue the discussion without me.

[Air Apparent]

Protagonist:

Please do not leave the thread. I'm just a little cranky lately for non Airstream reasons. Sorry.

[nvestysly]

Originally Posted by dwightdi

At this point, we have not got the members' permission to make their information directly available over the internet. Only 60% of our members currently utilize the internet so we also need to get all important communications to those 40% of the members who do not use the internet.

I saw this post a few weeks ago and found it very interesting. After reading the recent issue of Blue Beret I decided to take time to comment on the above and the article of interest in the Blue Beret.

Regarding above - yes we need to be flexible and provide useful means of communication to those who do not use the internet. If 40% of our club does not use the internet that alone indicates why we have some of the problems discussed on these forums. If 40% of our club does not use the internet then they are severely handicapped when it comes to understanding why the club is attracting so few new members. If 40% of our club lives their lives in a pre-1990's frame of mind it is obvious why I cannot renew my membership online and why I cannot obtain electronic access to member information.

So my suggestion is... provide all member information in an electronic format. Preferably in a searchable, sortable data format (or with a searchable, sortable GUI) so I can easily find my WBCCI friends, identify WBCCI preferred suppliers, easily obtain information on members by state, city, etc. For the 40% who do not use the internet they can obtain the printed copy of the membership directory via snail mail.

On to the article in the Blue Beret - it was interesting to see the plea from the WBCCI membership chairmain regarding a volunteer to create a map showing all courtesy parking. The chairman does not refer to an elctronic/interactive map so I can only presume this would be a printed/stagnant map. While courtesy parking is a wonderful hidden gem within the WBCCI community, and we should all make more use of it, I find it interesting that we're considering a volunteer to "make a map." So here's the next suggestion... Make the same electronic member information available via computer/smart phone app so we can easily identify courtesy parking opportunities.

All this relates back to the post above and to my prior suggestions regarding WBCCI member data. If the WBCCI information were in a true relational database many of these issues listed in this thread could be addressed. The data would obviously need to be secure and only available to current members. There are any number of electronic login methods to verify current membership - most of us use them every day - when we login to check account balances, shop online, etc. Let's apply those same security measures to the member data and make it available to all members. Then the member numbers could be searched, the courtesy parking locations could be identified, renewals could be done online, and we'd be looking like a 21st century club rather than a mid 1970's club.

If the data is only available via a secure portal I don't see any need to obtain "permission" from the membership. The portal is simply the electronic version of the directory rather than a printed version of the directory.

Lucius

[Aviator]

I would like to second nvstysly's above post. We, as a collective group need to approach this with a mindset not of our own generation, but from someone in their early 20's possibly even late teens. We should also look to future proof the work which is now being done.

The new website looks great, and has a lot o good information. The contrast is quite stark hen you follow some of the links which take yo to old formats.

Well done.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by nvestysly

For the 40% who do not use the internet they can obtain the printed copy of the membership directory via snail mail.

One can reasonably assume that as time goes on, that 40% who are Internet-challenged will drop to a lower percentage. And since they are already a minority (albeit a large minority at present) they should not be the controlling factor in how WBCCI information is disseminated.

The chairman does not refer to an elctronic/interactive map so I can only presume this would be a printed/stagnant map. While courtesy parking is a wonderful hidden gem within the WBCCI community, and we should all make more use of it, I find it interesting that we're considering a volunteer to "make a map." So here's the next suggestion... Make the same electronic member information available via computer/smart phone app so we can easily identify courtesy parking opportunities.

An excellent solution would be a Google Maps application, made available at the WBCCI website. This would not only allow easy updating as those who provide courtesy parking change, but also allow one to get directions to the selected site, even for those who don't use GPS. And, for that matter, the Google Maps app need not be limited to courtesy parking; Rally locations can be added, as well as caravan start/stop locations, Airstream dealers, etc., thus making the map a true visual WBCCI interface. Putting rallies and caravans on the map would require a commitment of time to keep the map up-to-date, but as users become more familiar with the map, rally and caravan organizers could add updating the map to their organizational duties rather than relying on a "map admin."

Plus, Google Maps allow further information to show up in a popup dialog box when you roll the cursor over the map stickpin, so information about courtesy parking hookups, length restrictions, seasonal availablity, whatever, can be added besides just the address. For rallies and caravans, the popup info can list dates, contact info and deadlines to register, etc.

The data would obviously need to be secure and only available to current members. There are any number of electronic login methods to verify current membership - most of us use them every day - when we login to check account balances, shop online, etc. Let's apply those same security measures to the member data and make it available to all members. Then the member numbers could be searched, the courtesy parking locations could be identified, renewals could be done online, and we'd be looking like a 21st century club rather than a mid 1970's club.

Hear, hear!

If the data is only available via a secure portal I don't see any need to obtain "permission" from the membership. The portal is simply the electronic version of the directory rather than a printed version of the directory.

This one I have to disagree with. Lots of people, whether Internet-savvy or not, are understandably cautious about the possibility for identity theft, invasion of privacy, and the like. Anyone who does not want their information to be available over the Internet should be allowed to opt out, in exactly the same way that one can have an unlisted telephone number at home.

However, those people who don't want their information listed on the Internet should consider the wisdom of having it listed in a hard-copy membership directory as well. That is also a permanent record, and can be obtained by non-members since there is no control over where a magazine goes once it's delivered to the addressee. The Internet listing has the advantage that once you fail to renew, your information would be removed, but with a hard-copy listing, back issues are still out there and so is your information, long after your membership expires.

I would suggest that for BOTH the hard-copy directory and the Internet directory, the solution is to add check boxes to the membership application and renewal forms, asking if the member wants his information to be published in one, the other, both, or neither place. The master directory at WBCCI headquarters would necessarily list everybody anyway and each Region and Unit would have a complete list of their members, but those members who don't want the information made available to other members should be allowed their privacy.

[HowieE]

The idea of a map is the best advancement to Airstreaming I have heard of in a long time.

It would be great while traveling to see who was having a rally in the area I was passing through. It would be great to just open the map and see if there was courtesy parking near by.

I currently use this type of map while Geocaching. The map while quite a bit more extensive than what we could hope to set up in WBCCI, 1,720,000 points noted, clearly demonstrates what could be available. The example of a map can be seen here

Geocaching > Geocaching Maps

Scroll and let your mind wander at the possibilities

The limiting factor as I see it at this point is the server. But if a server can be found any unit or region could start the ball rolling by setting up there own local map that could be folded into others as they are generated if they all used a common form.

If a server were to be housed in Jackson Center and a committee of volunteers, like those that Mode here on Airforums, had remote access to it it would be a simple thing to administer. Those that wanted information on the map would submit it and a member of the committee would post it to the map thus maintaining a level of control that would have easy accountability

[xrvr]

Great ideas! But remember many who have the Internet and email do not use them very often or check for messages. This seems to be a problem with many units, where word of mouth seems to still be in vogue. Seems we need a way to encourage more usage. Someone I am sure will have a good idea. Jim

[HowieE]

Do you really think Mark Zukerberg was thinking about those who only occasionally turned on their computers while designing Facebook. Why should we wait for or be governed by those who want to be left behind?

How about a comment or 2 from those with the computer knowledge as to how this could be started.

[RickDavis]

The geocaching map is a great example of what could be done.
I am embarassed to admit that I have been a user of that site and had never seen that feature

[Skatiero]

Lots of great points here. The mapping ideas are sooooo good, too.

I was stunned to read the percentage of members who are not online, too.

[RickDavis]

Originally Posted by Skatiero

Lots of great points here. The mapping ideas are sooooo good, too.

I was stunned to read the percentage of members who are not online, too.

I suspect a lot more members are on line than indicated. It is likely a lot of members opted out of having their e mail addresses published in the directory because of spam worries.

[dwightdi]

Sounds like we need a survey to determine how many members who would use the service, before we spend the club money to develop a system that would work. Constant Contact could send it out to the 3,800 email addresses (out of 5,690 members we have).

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by dwightdi

Sounds like we need a survey to determine how many members who would use the service, before we spend the club money to develop a system that would work. Constant Contact could send it out to the 3,800 email addresses (out of 5,690 members we have).

The answers to that survey will depend on the data that would appear on the map. When the survey is put out, list all of the applications we can think of that the map would be used for. For example, there may be people who want caravans mapped out, but have little interest in courtesy parking. Or vice versa, but all of them who are interested in even one application add to the justification for trying it.

So, the data that I think should be on the map, just as a start and in no particular order:
Courtesy Parking; Rallies (especially recurring ones); Caravans (ditto); Airstream Dealers; Airstream Parks; Jackson Center; Airstream-friendly Service Centers; Airstreams for Sale by WBCCI Members. I'm sure other contributors can think of other data points that are worthy of being mapped as well.

For that matter, when the survey is put out, there ought to be three possible answers, yes, no, and "I'll decide after I see it (i.e. maybe)."

You can start by putting me down for a resounding "YES!"

[HowieE]

Originally Posted by dwightdi

Sounds like we need a survey to determine how many members who would use the service, before we spend the club money to develop a system that would work. Constant Contact could send it out to the 3,800 email addresses (out of 5,690 members we have).

The last thing in the world we need is a survey.

The WBCCI has used surveys or a committee to kill ever thing that has ever been suggested.

Build it and they will come. Mark Z. did not take a survey.