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Old 02-28-2010, 08:21 PM   #29
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Bob,

What you quoted was hardly "shallow thinking." It was an honest, empathetic question, in response to a fellow member's post, who is justifiably upset that there will be no 3 amp parking at the next two Internationals. It was an attempt by someone in a leadership position to openly communicate here, on these forums, with a member. How could you possibly conclude, based upon this one question, that the 2020 committee is NOT focused on members?! I'm not a big fan of the International leadership either Bob, but in my opinion your present indictment is quite simply ridiculous!

In the future, if you could just delete the bitter, over-the-top rants before you post and simply state that there IS a need for 30 amp parking, you would appear far more persuasive and intelligent. Just a thought.

Don
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Old 02-28-2010, 08:27 PM   #30
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As I recall, 30A has only been available since the Springfield, MO rally in 2005. Prior to that rally only 3A service.

I do agree that it was a mistake to eliminate the 3A service, as this resulted in a large cost increase for those who do not want or need 30A.

Regarding the 2020 Committee, they met with the VAC in Bozeman in 2008 and I thought that they were very serious about recommending changes. Unfortunately, I don't think that the leadership is very supportive of change.

Bill
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Old 02-28-2010, 09:05 PM   #31
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I believe that Lansing was the first 30 amp., in 2004.
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Old 02-28-2010, 10:05 PM   #32
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So please don't assume anything, least of all that my opinions are more than my own. I am personally offended by your coments about the 2020 and international above. My personal style is for open discussion and to ask lots of questions and do not reflect either of those entities.
Pam your 3 amp question was within your comments about the actions of the 2020 com. If your personal question then you should have said so. As you know we belong to the same unit and we have had these type of discussions before. It seems that, in my opinion, you are offended any time the discussion is not your way. If discussing 2020 say so and if your personal opinion, then why not say so??

Sorry if I offended you but, don't you think that, as a 2020 member, you should have known why some members need electric?? If the members of the 2020 are to present value recommendations to the leadership that they have knowledge of the members wants and needs.

Semms to me that I recall another of your offended comments about an individual who was having trouble at Perry and you complained that I should have known that the individual was very hard of hearing. Yet you made no positive comments when I spent hours (and days) at Perry trying to get those members into the Rally and meetings. Nor do you appear to remember that I took my own time to enter the unit's publications into the various dislays and contests. Now I I must put forth to know everything about the club and its members, then why not you

As for my coimments about the 2020, they have been meeting and reporting for three years and to what end. Yes they have presented some good recommendations but the only end result is a mission statement that, in my opinion, is already outdated.

Again, if I have offended then I am sorry about that.

BTW there was no assumption within my comments so I am offended at your attempt to twist things.
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Old 02-28-2010, 10:18 PM   #33
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Hello Mistral Blue Your comments are distorted. While Pam is on the 2020 committee, she is not in a "leadership" position and as far as I know they do not represent the position of the International leadership/

I have spent 34 years promoting the club to others and even today I continue to do so. My wife and I stop and talk to every "baldy" we see and give them a membership packet. so please don't ever, ever question my attitude about our club. I work hard to get new members and believe I have,by virtue of my 34 years as a member, the right to speak out

BTW I never said anything about 30 amp..
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Old 02-28-2010, 11:03 PM   #34
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Hmmm...
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Old 02-28-2010, 11:49 PM   #35
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I support your right to free speech, just not what you say Bob.

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Sorry if I offended you but,
You're not sorry in the least. Methinks you speak with forked tongue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob280 View Post

don't you think that, as a 2020 member, you should have known why some members need electric??
Please Bob, the juvenile putdowns are getting wearisome. She knows some members need electric. She especially knows that you and Harriet need electric. But she also knows that most don't. 70% want electric. 30% don't. At the next two Internationals, 100% of those attending must pay for 30 amp electric. This is unfair and stupid (in my opinion). By her question, by this thread, it is obvious that Pam is trying to work the system from the "inside" in order to make a positive difference. She is here actively trying to assess the membership's wants and needs. Her eyes and ears are wide open. She is trying to communicate. I think we would all really appreciate it if in the future you could keep your personal animosity towards Pam to yourself.

Quote:
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As for my coimments about the 2020, they have been meeting and reporting for three years and to what end. Yes they have presented some good recommendations but the only end result is a mission statement that, in my opinion, is already outdated.
I agree with you here, but what can Pam do about it? This is, yet again, another one of your unfair criticisms of Pam. She's but one member on a committee. You were once a member of the IBT. You've been around 34 years! You know how it works. Committees can only make recommendations.

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Again, if I have offended then I am sorry about that.

BTW there was no assumption within my comments so I am offended at your attempt to twist things.
Again, I don't believe you're sorry. I believe you are the one who distorts things.
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Old 02-28-2010, 11:54 PM   #36
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Well obviously some require 30 amp and some don't. Thos e that do not should not have to pay the same if they are not utilizing it. An option of either has served us well in the past and the future should continue to offer both.

I have never opted for 30 amp because of the higher cost. Presently I could not afford Gillette. In the future if 3 amp is available I will be able to consider it a viable choice.

This is not a member against member situation. Leadership has decided to cast off options and we need to pull together as members to get the option back on the agenda.

Not sure that I agree with the numbers or how they were collected but even as cited, 30 % is substantial enough to offer accommodation.

As far as what I have read of Pam she is a great gal and in no way should be held to account for the decisions of the IBT because she is trying to make a posotive difference. I don't think Bob is intending to convey that either. It is a passionate issue and it is not about Bob or Pam. Let's all go higher up where most all of us can agree on direction for the future...
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Old 03-01-2010, 04:53 AM   #37
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Rally Sites and Electric

Thank you for the information about 3 amp vs. 30 amp vs. no amps.

I have been curious for some time about the possibility of hosting Region or International rallies at commercial campground. In particular the idea that sites would be set up with w/e already and our members would just pull in to the site. No need for early arrival to set up and breakdown w/e and incur those costs.

Wouldn't that be way easier and ultimately less expensive?

If International is drawing 1000 rigs, then perhaps this is a possibility.
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Old 03-01-2010, 06:31 AM   #38
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Thank you for the information about 3 amp vs. 30 amp vs. no amps.

I have been curious for some time about the possibility of hosting Region or International rallies at commercial campground. In particular the idea that sites would be set up with w/e already and our members would just pull in to the site. No need for early arrival to set up and breakdown w/e and incur those costs.

Wouldn't that be way easier and ultimately less expensive?

If International is drawing 1000 rigs, then perhaps this is a possibility.
This sounds like an excellent idea. There are facilities out there with hundreds of hookups in addition to dry camp space for those who don't want or need the hookups. Dry camping space could include limited-use generator time. Whyever not?

Maggie
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Old 03-01-2010, 06:59 AM   #39
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Using Commercial campgrounds with 30 amp service is just what the club is doing for the next 2 years. Gillette has 2,000 available 3 amp services that Tom did not contract for. We do not know his reasoning. A commercial campground is in the business to make money. They make more money from their more expensive sites. Our number of attendees, and therefore sales, is pretty small compared to their usual customer. They may not have been willing to sell cheap sites. We will never know because Tom never told us. Lack of open communications from the top to the members is the biggest cause of misunderstanding and anger among the members. Our low number of attendees is also responsible for the recent poor show-up of commercial vendors at our rallies. The lower amount of attendees and available cash is poor quality of entertainment. The club is in a self accelerating death spiral and the leadership does not seem to have the skill and desire to stop it.
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:42 AM   #40
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Using Commercial campgrounds with 30 amp service is just what the club is doing for the next 2 years. Gillette has 2,000 available 3 amp services that Tom did not contract for. We do not know his reasoning. A commercial campground is in the business to make money. They make more money from their more expensive sites. Our number of attendees, and therefore sales, is pretty small compared to their usual customer. They may not have been willing to sell cheap sites. We will never know because Tom never told us. Lack of open communications from the top to the members is the biggest cause of misunderstanding and anger among the members. Our low number of attendees is also responsible for the recent poor show-up of commercial vendors at our rallies. The lower amount of attendees and available cash is poor quality of entertainment. The club is in a self accelerating death spiral and the leadership does not seem to have the skill and desire to stop it.
Hmmmm. Members could surely opt to reserve the 3 amp sites, couldn't they, and deduct the difference from the rally fee?
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:56 AM   #41
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Unfortunately, Tom did not allow them to do that. You pay the full $500 for the 30 amps or you do not come. There is no option.
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Old 03-01-2010, 08:48 AM   #42
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Hello Mistral Blue Your comments are distorted. While Pam is on the 2020 committee, she is not in a "leadership" position and as far as I know they do not represent the position of the International leadership/

I have spent 34 years promoting the club to others and even today I continue to do so. My wife and I stop and talk to every "baldy" we see and give them a membership packet. so please don't ever, ever question my attitude about our club. I work hard to get new members and believe I have,by virtue of my 34 years as a member, the right to speak out

BTW I never said anything about 30 amp..
With all due respect for your many years of service to OUR club , NO ONE is ever above questioning . That attitude alone is reponsible for the major portion of turmoil in our club today. I must say this attitude in you is a big suprise , and you SHOULD know that Pam is not anything like what you have implied.
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