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Old 11-24-2009, 06:07 AM   #1
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Thumbs down Grievance time again -Leo gets slammed again

The board of directors of the WBCCI is out to get Leo, this is the third grievance against him.

Is this the way you want your club run?

The new grievance

DATE: November 6, 2009
TO: Tom Collier, President, Wally Byam Caravan Club International
RE: Grievance filed against Leo Garvey, WBCCI #6006, for Code of > Ethics Violations

That the accused has violated the terms of membership of his
probation of August 24, 2009, by the publication and dissemination of an
e-mail dated October 15, 2009 (attached) to WBCCI officers using
inflammatory and threatening language toward the WBCCI Executive Committee
and the Ethics and Grievance Committee in violation of the WBCCI Code of
Ethics. That the accused should be suspended or expelled from WBCCI
membership for violating the terms of said probation by the use and
publications of such language creating disharmony and ill feelings among
WBCCI club members in violation of the Code of Ethics.

this is the e-mail

Personally I find the denial of my appeal reprehensible. This
decision accomplishes nothing more than protecting feckless leadership at
both the Executive Committee level and within our Ethics and Grievance
We're now happy to hide behind what was an obvious omission when
probation was added as a means to dress down a member. I'll guess (although
I have the actual recordings) that a discussion to add this disciplinary
measure to the appeals process was never even brought up at the Delegate's Meeting. Members must have recourse against wrongful actions taken by leadership, regardless of severity, especially when member's rights have been blatantly violated.
I'm asking or an official review of all practices and procedures
and both grievance results experienced by me, by our club Parliamentarian. I expect that only within that position, does the knowledge likely exist that could straighten out all of the issues that have come to light throughout the course of 2008 and 2009 in these matters.
If I am denied that review, and fail to see the blatant and
obvious corrections that will be required from such, this Executive
Committee and Ethics & Grievance Committee will leave me no choice but to file a grievance against the entire Executive Committee and our Ethics & Grievance Committee for Dereliction of Duty.
The problem there of course, can any charge be openly and fairly
addressed under those circumstances?
The following must not be construed as a threat, but If I'm denied
due process WBCCI leadership is so much as stating that the only choice I have is to bring this entire issue before a Court of competent jurisdiction in New York State.
I would hate to believe that a member's only recourse in the face
of ineffective leadership and wrongful actions is an external review of club
policies, procedures, and practices, but it is protectionist and
obstructionist leadership actions that are clearly taking us all down this
I'll await the Executive Committee's decision on this and hope
that Region President's, International Officers, can somehow find their way
back into the decision making process in this club.


Leo Garvey

'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

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Old 11-24-2009, 06:16 AM   #2
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Angry Some warm responces from officers of the wbcci

Prior this grievance he was contacted by the following members;

RB, Region 10 1st Past President (now on the Int. Nominating Committee)
This has been sitting in my Draft folder for some time, but now it appears I am back on your “shot-gun” address list because I just got another one about you not receiving a response to whatever it was that you found reprehensible - - and after that insult, you wanted them to reconsider in your favor. Wow, you really ought to take that “how to win friends and influence people” course, or maybe you can find an on-line TACT-101 course.

So here is what I wrote before, but sat on, but I cant’ sit any longer while you continue your actions that are seriously hurting this club (although I’m told you think you are helping. Go figure!):

It appears I have been deleted from your email address list. (Don't bother to put me back on - - please!) But several of your continuing pot shots regarding our new web site and now the reimbursements paid to our elected officials have been forwarded to to me by colleagues who know I still love the club and maintain sincere interest in its future.

Has anyone pointed out to you that membership in WBCCI is voluntary? To the best of my knowledge, no one is forcing you to belong to the club. Most of us are now renewing memberships for the next year. I see you are not a Life Member, so why don't you just fail to renew?! It would undoubtedly be to your benefit health-wise for surely an ulcer or some other internal irritation must must be festering.

You have commented about our loss of membership on several occasions. Have you ever considered - - or has anyone pointed out to you- - just how many members or prospective members you have driven away by your constant complaining?

I am so fed up with your shenanigans that even if you did have a valid point, I would disregard it simply because it came from you. I suspect I am not alone in this feeling.

Very sincerely,

R.B. Bernd

Wylie, Region 10 President (his wife poured ice tea over Leo's head in Madison)
I DO agree with all you said. Thank you. I also think that there are a lot of the members, just getting tired of all that whining

Adolf Knopp, Region 10 1st VP -
Hi RB & Doug

Well it looks like we all have the same thoughts and I too have had a draft in hand to send off to Leo and think now is the time.


On March 22, 2009 at 9:58pm I sent you an email in connection with your candidacy for the nominating committee. In it I stated to you to cut the negative crap and work with our International Board to add 6000 new members to our membership and ensure that they are all leaders. In addition your challenge was to work to ensure that at least 2500 units attended our International Rally. That would totally solve our financial woes.

In addition I mentioned to you something about volunteering, gaining the respect and confidence of your peers by working with people.

I never received a reply. What is the matter Leo, is that too much good constructive work for you. It is not rocket science that increased membership and advertising revenue is vital to our continued success.

You can cut expenses until you crawl up your own orifice and in the end you have nothing.

So I repeat, cut the negative crap and do something constructive like working with our elected officers in growing our club.

Your continued negative criticism of our officers is divisive and dysfunctional. It only serves as a distraction in dealing with the difficult issues that face them.

If you can not bring yourself to the point of working with our elected officers and contributing constructively to our club it is time for you to re-assess the value of your membership to WBCCI and seek to bestow your continued diatribe on the membership of some other club which is currently lacking and in need of your kind of denunciation.

Adolf Knopp

June Ryan, Region 8 President
RB & Adolf
Thanks for your responses. I too am getting tired of all the e-mails
about this subject.
I hope he will stop stirring the pot and just lets it die.
We are trying to promote good will and happy trails to all our members.
June Ryan

the now Region 10 President, Sandra Jackson
Leo, You obviously are upset with the manner our club, WBCCI, is being managed. Inasmuch as all of the members of WBCCI are volunteers (excepting Headquarters staff)and membership is not mandatory, I should think that if you are as disgruntled as you have exhibited over the past several years, it would be in your best interest, healthwise and otherwise, to give up your membership. There must be some other activity in your area that would welcome a person of your abilities. Good luck to you in your search.
Please do not respond to this e-mail. I am finding that all of these e-mails are taking far too much time and energy.
Sandy Jackson #223

not to rejoin in 2010.

'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

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Old 11-24-2009, 06:45 AM   #3
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Life is too short......
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:59 AM   #4
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Boy them people sure don't like that guy if anyone talked to me that way I think I would pay them a visit. Did I read it correctly that a lady poured iced tea on his head??
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Old 11-24-2009, 09:01 AM   #5
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yet another reason red numbers will not be on my trailer
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Old 11-24-2009, 09:06 AM   #6
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well, this will be interesting....

The grievance procedures are actually being used to the benefit of the club, not it's members and certainly not to the people who are being wronged (and continue to be wronged). It is being used as a tool to silence "the detractors".

I filed 2 grievances for the implementation of the Miserable Users hack being used on the new club forums to block my access as well as 2 other club members to the new forums. I included screen picts of the super administrator actively seeking information on how to set it up, pictures of the users group needed to run the hack, video documentation of the hack in use which showed that I can access the site only if I proxy in to hide my identity. All of this evidence was rejected and the response I got was "there is no proof". But I can STILL not access the forums unless I proxy in. I can not even register and participate because of the blocking.

I filed a second grievance based on the attempt by the Super Administrator to shut down my web service with claims of copyrighted materials on my site AND that I had child porn on my site. The claims were made in 2 letters sent to my hosting company. The response from the EGC - no proof again.
Lastly, the EGC said that if I filed another grievance THEY would take action against me - so now, even though I have followed procedure, that is yet one additional "right" I no longer have in WBCCI.

What would I file a grievance on???? Well, a letter was sent by a moderator to all of the region leadership on the grievances I filed. This letter was sent during the time that my grievances were being considered and that letter defended the actions of the super administrator and stated that I was nothing but a liar. The talking points of that letter were almost verbatim the response the EGC gave me. It could be argued that the EGC was influenced by that message.

If this grievance passes, I think it will clearly show that some members are more welcome than other to use this process.

BTW - if anybody is interested in getting more information on what I am talking about above, go to SaveWally forums - I will give you EVERYTHING I have. You can decide for yourself if what I say is true or not - don't take my word for it....judge for yourself.
Buttercup's Web Site. WBCCI #17330, 11281 & 7830. VAC Past President, TAC NV-2 & NV-3
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Old 11-24-2009, 09:21 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by danalee View Post
Life is too short......
Neil and Lynn Holman
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Old 11-24-2009, 09:44 AM   #8
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Other organizations also are experiencing internal friction:
Shriners on both sides of lawsuit

Two members of local temple sue 5 officers
Oct. 24, 2009
The Houston branch of the fez-wearing fraternity known for driving tiny circus cars and supporting area Shriners children’s hospitals, is embroiled in a court dispute where the societal honorifics of “potentate,” “high priest” and “illustrious sir” are dropped in favor of plain “plaintiff” and “defendant.”
Two longtime members of the Arabia Shrine Temple in Houston have sued five officers of the group alleging intentional infliction of emotional distress, defamation, violation of due process, breach of fiduciary duty, conspiracy and other charges.
The basic complaint is that the current leaders of the philanthropic Freemasons brotherhood are not following internal rules or state law when it comes to transparency in expenditures of some of the $15 million-plus obtained in the sale of their former temple at 2900 N. Braeswood. The Meyerland-area facility sold in 2007.
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:06 AM   #9
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I knew there was a good reason that I have never been much of a "joiner!"

Actually, since buying our first AS last Fall, I have been - and to a degree still am - considering joining the WBCCI.

From what several people have told, all this nonsense goes on only at the National level and the local units just have a good time.

I'm sure that could well be true. Our only minor involvement so far has been a week spent at the Airstream park in Pennsylvania and we really enjoyed that experience, met some great people there.

But if I understand correctly, the bulk of the annual fee I would pay to belong goes to support the National organization, and that tends to turn me off, giving good $$ to support this sort of thing.

Still debating! Maybe its just a necessary evil in order to join the local group.

There still seems something not right to me about an organization where local units need to apologize for their leaders and tell you to ignore the national folks to convince prospective members to join!

Still sitting on the fence and trying to decide ........... Brian.
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:38 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by danalee View Post
Life is too short......
Exactly. Leo G. should get the hell out of there.
🏡 🚐 Cherish and appreciate those you love. This moment could be your last.🌹🐚❤️
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Old 11-24-2009, 12:26 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by bob34787 View Post
yet another reason red numbers will not be on my trailer
You mean to tell me the red numbers aren't the asking price? Where have I been all these years? Duh.
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Old 11-24-2009, 12:49 PM   #12
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..... from the outside looking in, and at it's very best, this is nothing but a very tacky soap opera .....

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Old 11-24-2009, 12:52 PM   #13
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Oh well,

Though I agree, “Life’s too Short”, it’s still sad to see how a few in power are taking a club once full of life and slowly choking the what little life is left out of it.

Can the WBCCI be a great club? “YES” it can be a “GREAT” club if you get with a fun unit that does not take the “beret”, “flag ceremonies”, “white shirt/red tie/blue slacks” and the whole “Hail to the President” crap to seriously.

What is really sad, you have those in the role of leadership that “KNOW” what the problems are and “REFUSE” to make the needed changes to breathe new life into the club, much like the Harley, Mustang and other clubs have done where the members gather around the heritage and future of a common product.

As a friend of mine says, “There are those who have twenty-years of experience and those who have one experience for twenty-years”.

If the leadership of the WBCCI does not know that we as a culture have moved away from the “beret”, “flag ceremonies”, “white shirt/red tie/blue slacks” and the whole “Hail to the President” method of club identity, it is time for them to “look-up”, “look-around” and “step into the future”.

Add to the declining membership numbers, the over spending by the powers in charge for things the club does not need nor can afford, it becomes a “one-two” punch.

Though I understand, sometimes Leo can rub people the wrong way (Lord only knows I did the same thing at the WBCCI International Rally a few years back) they should not be trying to “Kill the Bearer of Bad News”. Just because someone is pointing out there are problems, should not mean they are run out of the club for doing so. Leo has offered good ideas, offered to help in many ways and has nothing but the “LONGTERM” future of the club as the cornerstone of his concerns.

It will be a sad day 5-10 years from now when the club is gone and the powers of past to the campfire in the sky, one of them will be left saying “Maybe we should have listened to that guy Leo”.
Paul Waddell
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Old 11-24-2009, 01:01 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
this is the e-mail
Are you kidding me?
A grievance was filed over THIS e-mail?!?

Originally Posted by Wingeezer View Post

There still seems something not right to me about an organization where local units need to apologize for their leaders and tell you to ignore the national folks to convince prospective members to join!
I am ashamed of our International leaders and I'm tired of apologizing for them.

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