Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-24-2009, 06:07 AM   #1
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,011
Images: 28
Thumbs down Grievance time again -Leo gets slammed again

The board of directors of the WBCCI is out to get Leo, this is the third grievance against him.

Is this the way you want your club run?


The new grievance

FORMAL GRIEVANCE
DATE: November 6, 2009
TO: Tom Collier, President, Wally Byam Caravan Club International
FROM:
RE: Grievance filed against Leo Garvey, WBCCI #6006, for Code of > Ethics Violations


That the accused has violated the terms of membership of his
probation of August 24, 2009, by the publication and dissemination of an
e-mail dated October 15, 2009 (attached) to WBCCI officers using
inflammatory and threatening language toward the WBCCI Executive Committee
and the Ethics and Grievance Committee in violation of the WBCCI Code of
Ethics. That the accused should be suspended or expelled from WBCCI
membership for violating the terms of said probation by the use and
publications of such language creating disharmony and ill feelings among
WBCCI club members in violation of the Code of Ethics.

this is the e-mail

Personally I find the denial of my appeal reprehensible. This
decision accomplishes nothing more than protecting feckless leadership at
both the Executive Committee level and within our Ethics and Grievance
Committee.
We're now happy to hide behind what was an obvious omission when
probation was added as a means to dress down a member. I'll guess (although
I have the actual recordings) that a discussion to add this disciplinary
measure to the appeals process was never even brought up at the Delegate's Meeting. Members must have recourse against wrongful actions taken by leadership, regardless of severity, especially when member's rights have been blatantly violated.
I'm asking or an official review of all practices and procedures
and both grievance results experienced by me, by our club Parliamentarian. I expect that only within that position, does the knowledge likely exist that could straighten out all of the issues that have come to light throughout the course of 2008 and 2009 in these matters.
If I am denied that review, and fail to see the blatant and
obvious corrections that will be required from such, this Executive
Committee and Ethics & Grievance Committee will leave me no choice but to file a grievance against the entire Executive Committee and our Ethics & Grievance Committee for Dereliction of Duty.
The problem there of course, can any charge be openly and fairly
addressed under those circumstances?
The following must not be construed as a threat, but If I'm denied
due process WBCCI leadership is so much as stating that the only choice I have is to bring this entire issue before a Court of competent jurisdiction in New York State.
I would hate to believe that a member's only recourse in the face
of ineffective leadership and wrongful actions is an external review of club
policies, procedures, and practices, but it is protectionist and
obstructionist leadership actions that are clearly taking us all down this
path.
I'll await the Executive Committee's decision on this and hope
that Region President's, International Officers, can somehow find their way
back into the decision making process in this club.

Respectfully,

Leo Garvey
__________________
Bob


LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 06:16 AM   #2
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,011
Images: 28
Angry Some warm responces from officers of the wbcci

Prior this grievance he was contacted by the following members;

RB, Region 10 1st Past President (now on the Int. Nominating Committee)
This has been sitting in my Draft folder for some time, but now it appears I am back on your “shot-gun” address list because I just got another one about you not receiving a response to whatever it was that you found reprehensible - - and after that insult, you wanted them to reconsider in your favor. Wow, you really ought to take that “how to win friends and influence people” course, or maybe you can find an on-line TACT-101 course.

So here is what I wrote before, but sat on, but I cant’ sit any longer while you continue your actions that are seriously hurting this club (although I’m told you think you are helping. Go figure!):

It appears I have been deleted from your email address list. (Don't bother to put me back on - - please!) But several of your continuing pot shots regarding our new web site and now the reimbursements paid to our elected officials have been forwarded to to me by colleagues who know I still love the club and maintain sincere interest in its future.

Has anyone pointed out to you that membership in WBCCI is voluntary? To the best of my knowledge, no one is forcing you to belong to the club. Most of us are now renewing memberships for the next year. I see you are not a Life Member, so why don't you just fail to renew?! It would undoubtedly be to your benefit health-wise for surely an ulcer or some other internal irritation must must be festering.

You have commented about our loss of membership on several occasions. Have you ever considered - - or has anyone pointed out to you- - just how many members or prospective members you have driven away by your constant complaining?

I am so fed up with your shenanigans that even if you did have a valid point, I would disregard it simply because it came from you. I suspect I am not alone in this feeling.

Very sincerely,

R.B. Bernd




Wylie, Region 10 President (his wife poured ice tea over Leo's head in Madison)
R.B.,
I DO agree with all you said. Thank you. I also think that there are a lot of the members, just getting tired of all that whining



Adolf Knopp, Region 10 1st VP -
Hi RB & Doug

Well it looks like we all have the same thoughts and I too have had a draft in hand to send off to Leo and think now is the time.

Leo

On March 22, 2009 at 9:58pm I sent you an email in connection with your candidacy for the nominating committee. In it I stated to you to cut the negative crap and work with our International Board to add 6000 new members to our membership and ensure that they are all leaders. In addition your challenge was to work to ensure that at least 2500 units attended our International Rally. That would totally solve our financial woes.

In addition I mentioned to you something about volunteering, gaining the respect and confidence of your peers by working with people.

I never received a reply. What is the matter Leo, is that too much good constructive work for you. It is not rocket science that increased membership and advertising revenue is vital to our continued success.

You can cut expenses until you crawl up your own orifice and in the end you have nothing.

So I repeat, cut the negative crap and do something constructive like working with our elected officers in growing our club.

Your continued negative criticism of our officers is divisive and dysfunctional. It only serves as a distraction in dealing with the difficult issues that face them.

If you can not bring yourself to the point of working with our elected officers and contributing constructively to our club it is time for you to re-assess the value of your membership to WBCCI and seek to bestow your continued diatribe on the membership of some other club which is currently lacking and in need of your kind of denunciation.

Adolf Knopp




June Ryan, Region 8 President
RB & Adolf
Thanks for your responses. I too am getting tired of all the e-mails
about this subject.
I hope he will stop stirring the pot and just lets it die.
We are trying to promote good will and happy trails to all our members.
June Ryan



the now Region 10 President, Sandra Jackson
Leo, You obviously are upset with the manner our club, WBCCI, is being managed. Inasmuch as all of the members of WBCCI are volunteers (excepting Headquarters staff)and membership is not mandatory, I should think that if you are as disgruntled as you have exhibited over the past several years, it would be in your best interest, healthwise and otherwise, to give up your membership. There must be some other activity in your area that would welcome a person of your abilities. Good luck to you in your search.
Please do not respond to this e-mail. I am finding that all of these e-mails are taking far too much time and energy.
Sandy Jackson #223


not to rejoin in 2010.
__________________
Bob


LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 06:45 AM   #3
Rivet Master
 
danalee's Avatar
 
1978 29' Ambassador
Walnut Cove , North Carolina
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 519
Images: 30
Life is too short......
__________________
Dannie
The Silver Queen
danalee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 06:59 AM   #4
4 Rivet Member
 
ibgl6's Avatar
 
1973 27' Overlander
Southport (Panama City) , Florida
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 426
Images: 2
Send a message via AIM to ibgl6
Boy them people sure don't like that guy if anyone talked to me that way I think I would pay them a visit. Did I read it correctly that a lady poured iced tea on his head??
__________________
Your Friend Sam In (Southport) Panama City Florida


Air#15607 TAC FL-2

Good Sam (LifeTime Member)
ibgl6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 09:01 AM   #5
3 Rivet Member
 
2008 28' Safari SE
winter garden , Florida
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 210
yet another reason red numbers will not be on my trailer
bob34787 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 09:06 AM   #6
Rivet Master
 
Buttercup's Avatar
 
1977 27' Overlander
1954 25' Cruiser
1990 34.5' Airstream 345
VC Highlands , Nevada
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,151
Send a message via Skype™ to Buttercup
well, this will be interesting....

The grievance procedures are actually being used to the benefit of the club, not it's members and certainly not to the people who are being wronged (and continue to be wronged). It is being used as a tool to silence "the detractors".

I filed 2 grievances for the implementation of the Miserable Users hack being used on the new club forums to block my access as well as 2 other club members to the new forums. I included screen picts of the super administrator actively seeking information on how to set it up, pictures of the users group needed to run the hack, video documentation of the hack in use which showed that I can access the site only if I proxy in to hide my identity. All of this evidence was rejected and the response I got was "there is no proof". But I can STILL not access the forums unless I proxy in. I can not even register and participate because of the blocking.

I filed a second grievance based on the attempt by the Super Administrator to shut down my web service with claims of copyrighted materials on my site AND that I had child porn on my site. The claims were made in 2 letters sent to my hosting company. The response from the EGC - no proof again.
Lastly, the EGC said that if I filed another grievance THEY would take action against me - so now, even though I have followed procedure, that is yet one additional "right" I no longer have in WBCCI.

What would I file a grievance on???? Well, a letter was sent by a moderator to all of the region leadership on the grievances I filed. This letter was sent during the time that my grievances were being considered and that letter defended the actions of the super administrator and stated that I was nothing but a liar. The talking points of that letter were almost verbatim the response the EGC gave me. It could be argued that the EGC was influenced by that message.

If this grievance passes, I think it will clearly show that some members are more welcome than other to use this process.

BTW - if anybody is interested in getting more information on what I am talking about above, go to SaveWally forums - I will give you EVERYTHING I have. You can decide for yourself if what I say is true or not - don't take my word for it....judge for yourself.
__________________
Buttercup's Web Site. WBCCI #17330, 11281 & 7830. VAC Past President, TAC NV-2 & NV-3
Buttercup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 09:21 AM   #7
Rivet Master
 
FreshAir's Avatar

 
1966 24' Tradewind
Placerville , California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,328
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by danalee View Post
Life is too short......
Ditto.
__________________
Neil and Lynn Holman
FreshAir #12407

Avatar;
Kirk Creek, Big Sur, Ca. coast.

1966 Trade Wind

1971 Buick Centurion convertible
455 cid

1969 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight
455 cid
FreshAir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 09:44 AM   #8
4 Rivet Member
 
extiger's Avatar
 
2011 30' Classic
Kingwood , Texas
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 262
Images: 1
Other organizations also are experiencing internal friction:
Shriners on both sides of lawsuit

Two members of local temple sue 5 officers
MARY FLOOD
HOUSTON CHRONICLE
Oct. 24, 2009
The Houston branch of the fez-wearing fraternity known for driving tiny circus cars and supporting area Shriners children’s hospitals, is embroiled in a court dispute where the societal honorifics of “potentate,” “high priest” and “illustrious sir” are dropped in favor of plain “plaintiff” and “defendant.”
Two longtime members of the Arabia Shrine Temple in Houston have sued five officers of the group alleging intentional infliction of emotional distress, defamation, violation of due process, breach of fiduciary duty, conspiracy and other charges.
The basic complaint is that the current leaders of the philanthropic Freemasons brotherhood are not following internal rules or state law when it comes to transparency in expenditures of some of the $15 million-plus obtained in the sale of their former temple at 2900 N. Braeswood. The Meyerland-area facility sold in 2007.
extiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 11:06 AM   #9
Rivet Master
 
Wingeezer's Avatar
 
2005 30' Classic
Burlington , Ontario
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,743
I knew there was a good reason that I have never been much of a "joiner!"


Actually, since buying our first AS last Fall, I have been - and to a degree still am - considering joining the WBCCI.

From what several people have told, all this nonsense goes on only at the National level and the local units just have a good time.

I'm sure that could well be true. Our only minor involvement so far has been a week spent at the Airstream park in Pennsylvania and we really enjoyed that experience, met some great people there.

But if I understand correctly, the bulk of the annual fee I would pay to belong goes to support the National organization, and that tends to turn me off, giving good $$ to support this sort of thing.

Still debating! Maybe its just a necessary evil in order to join the local group.

There still seems something not right to me about an organization where local units need to apologize for their leaders and tell you to ignore the national folks to convince prospective members to join!

Still sitting on the fence and trying to decide ........... Brian.
__________________
Brian & Connie Mitchell

2005 Classic 30'
Hensley Arrow / Centramatics
2008 GMC Sierra SLT 2500HD,4x4,Crew Cab, Diesel, Leer cap.
Wingeezer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 11:38 AM   #10
Rivet Master
 
Lily&Me's Avatar

 
2007 Interstate
Normal , Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 18,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by danalee View Post
Life is too short......
Exactly. Leo G. should get the hell out of there.
__________________
🏡 🚐 Cherish and appreciate those you love. This moment could be your last.🌹🐚
Lily&Me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 12:26 PM   #11
Rivet Master
 
ZoominC6's Avatar
 
2004 30' Classic Slideout
2021 33FB Classic
Colleyville , TX
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob34787 View Post
yet another reason red numbers will not be on my trailer
You mean to tell me the red numbers aren't the asking price? Where have I been all these years? Duh.
__________________
In dog years, I'm dead!
ZoominC6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 12:49 PM   #12
Rivet Master
 
RangerJay's Avatar
 
2002 19' Bambi
Northwestern Ontario , - on the backside of the map and just above the big green spot
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 819
Images: 44
..... from the outside looking in, and at it's very best, this is nothing but a very tacky soap opera .....



Jay
__________________
Bambi - 2002 (The Toaster)
Pathfinder - 2009 (The Buggy)

"I'm not young enough to know everything ....."
(Oscar Wilde)
RangerJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 12:52 PM   #13
Rivet Master
 
rideair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,800
Oh well,

Though I agree, “Life’s too Short”, it’s still sad to see how a few in power are taking a club once full of life and slowly choking the what little life is left out of it.

Can the WBCCI be a great club? “YES” it can be a “GREAT” club if you get with a fun unit that does not take the “beret”, “flag ceremonies”, “white shirt/red tie/blue slacks” and the whole “Hail to the President” crap to seriously.

What is really sad, you have those in the role of leadership that “KNOW” what the problems are and “REFUSE” to make the needed changes to breathe new life into the club, much like the Harley, Mustang and other clubs have done where the members gather around the heritage and future of a common product.

As a friend of mine says, “There are those who have twenty-years of experience and those who have one experience for twenty-years”.

If the leadership of the WBCCI does not know that we as a culture have moved away from the “beret”, “flag ceremonies”, “white shirt/red tie/blue slacks” and the whole “Hail to the President” method of club identity, it is time for them to “look-up”, “look-around” and “step into the future”.

Add to the declining membership numbers, the over spending by the powers in charge for things the club does not need nor can afford, it becomes a “one-two” punch.

Though I understand, sometimes Leo can rub people the wrong way (Lord only knows I did the same thing at the WBCCI International Rally a few years back) they should not be trying to “Kill the Bearer of Bad News”. Just because someone is pointing out there are problems, should not mean they are run out of the club for doing so. Leo has offered good ideas, offered to help in many ways and has nothing but the “LONGTERM” future of the club as the cornerstone of his concerns.

It will be a sad day 5-10 years from now when the club is gone and the powers of past to the campfire in the sky, one of them will be left saying “Maybe we should have listened to that guy Leo”.
__________________
Paul Waddell
rideair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 01:01 PM   #14
Certifiable
 
mistral blue's Avatar
 
. , .
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,467
Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
this is the e-mail
Are you kidding me?
A grievance was filed over THIS e-mail?!?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingeezer View Post

There still seems something not right to me about an organization where local units need to apologize for their leaders and tell you to ignore the national folks to convince prospective members to join!
I am ashamed of our International leaders and I'm tired of apologizing for them.
__________________
"IT'S A MAGICAL WORLD, HOBBES, OL' BUDDY... LET'S GO EXPLORING!" ~ CALVIN
mistral blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 01:43 PM   #15
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
Images: 12
Go for it Leo.

Don't let the comments of a couple of "plants" from the other side convince you to leave.

If it gets to the point of going to court my dues will be better spent in your defense than supporting a group that won't let others in their sandbox. I am as old or older than most of the Officers of the International but thank God I have not reached their level of paranoia.

I have said this before and will say it again. The Forum will be the surviving origination. It is just a question as to when Thor, who I understand has withdrawn it's support of WBCCI, will begin sponsorship and transfer the rights to all trademark material. Am I right in assuming Thor owns "Wally" and not the International.

By the way. What is the URL for this web site that won't let some people in? Does my membership provide me with access?
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 01:51 PM   #16
Rivet Master
 
NevadaGeo's Avatar
 
1978 31' Excella 500
Genoa , Nevada
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,554
I'm still considering joining, just for the entertainment value. Not much else I've seen that would interest me. Been there, done that ritual stuff too many years with an 1860's farmers fraternal organization of which I am a 40+ year member, and it was out of date when I had to join. The serious precise ritual and flaggy drill stuff is good once in a great while, even nice for the memorized ritual- marching drill state and national contests once in a great while, good for those that experienced the great depression and Coolidge and Wilson. Most of us under 70 don't need it forced on us today. (Hmm, I do have some ideas for some propane cannon flame effect flaggy things)
__________________
I admit to being powerless over housecleaning and social niceities
Airforums 22655 and now, WBCCI 22655

NevadaGeo
NevadaGeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 03:02 PM   #17
Restorations done right
Commercial Member
 
Frank's Trailer Works's Avatar
 
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore , Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,545
Images: 2
So that email ring... those officers sending their thoughts to Leo, those officers are the very ones that use the funds to cover their travels are they not? How can they be the least bit objective about Leo's complaints of misusing the general fund.

Howie the forum is at WBCCI Forums You will be allowed full access once you register. You should know it will you and two moderators using it at anytime. The traffic on that forum is lame as can be.
Frank's Trailer Works is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 05:10 PM   #18
Rivet Master
 
Lily&Me's Avatar

 
2007 Interstate
Normal , Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 18,067
"Don't let the comments of a couple of "plants" from the other side convince you to leave."

Oh, for pete's sake!! Plants? This kind of chronic stress and being beaten down takes a terrible toll on a person, physically and emotionally. That's what we're saying.

I had promised myself I wouldn't even read this stuff anymore.
__________________
🏡 🚐 Cherish and appreciate those you love. This moment could be your last.🌹🐚
Lily&Me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 05:18 PM   #19
4 Rivet Member
 
norsea's Avatar
 
2008 30' Classic
On the road since 2000 , norseaodyssey.com
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 254
Sad indeed....

While this episode is indeed sad, it does highlight why many of us would like to form a new club.

A new club could be constructed such that the members have control over the organization and the directors/officers are merely the overseers who implement that which the members put forward. Setting this up is NOT difficult!

Of course this means that this new organization would be structured in a manner that does not resemble the WBCCI in any way, shape, or form.

Perhaps it is time to devote some additional energy to the http://www.airforums.com/forums/f290...lub-58427.html thread.

While it is indeed sad that the WBCCI is as myopic as it appears to be, the email presented in this thread should remove all doubt about the direction that the WBCCI leadership is putting forward.

While those who have been working so hard for so many years to bring change to the WBCCI are to be commended it should, at this time, be very obvious that change is NOT something the WBCCI is interested in at all.

Jim
__________________
We are travelers with an attitude. We get to go anywhere, anytime, and have attitudes about what we see and hear.

"Travel is fatal to bigotry, prejudice and being narrow minded."
norsea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 06:00 PM   #20
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,011
Images: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by extiger View Post
Other organizations also are experiencing internal friction:
Shriners on both sides of lawsuit

Two members of local temple sue 5 officers
alleging intentional infliction of emotional distress, defamation, violation of due process, breach of fiduciary duty, conspiracy and other charges.
Hey Leo, sounds very similar, call their lawyer!
__________________
Bob


LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Grievance time again LI Pets WBCCI Forum 110 09-14-2009 08:31 AM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.