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Old 11-24-2009, 02:43 PM   #15
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Go for it Leo.

Don't let the comments of a couple of "plants" from the other side convince you to leave.

If it gets to the point of going to court my dues will be better spent in your defense than supporting a group that won't let others in their sandbox. I am as old or older than most of the Officers of the International but thank God I have not reached their level of paranoia.

I have said this before and will say it again. The Forum will be the surviving origination. It is just a question as to when Thor, who I understand has withdrawn it's support of WBCCI, will begin sponsorship and transfer the rights to all trademark material. Am I right in assuming Thor owns "Wally" and not the International.

By the way. What is the URL for this web site that won't let some people in? Does my membership provide me with access?
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Old 11-24-2009, 02:51 PM   #16
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I'm still considering joining, just for the entertainment value. Not much else I've seen that would interest me. Been there, done that ritual stuff too many years with an 1860's farmers fraternal organization of which I am a 40+ year member, and it was out of date when I had to join. The serious precise ritual and flaggy drill stuff is good once in a great while, even nice for the memorized ritual- marching drill state and national contests once in a great while, good for those that experienced the great depression and Coolidge and Wilson. Most of us under 70 don't need it forced on us today. (Hmm, I do have some ideas for some propane cannon flame effect flaggy things)
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Old 11-24-2009, 04:02 PM   #17
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So that email ring... those officers sending their thoughts to Leo, those officers are the very ones that use the funds to cover their travels are they not? How can they be the least bit objective about Leo's complaints of misusing the general fund.

Howie the forum is at WBCCI Forums You will be allowed full access once you register. You should know it will you and two moderators using it at anytime. The traffic on that forum is lame as can be.
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:10 PM   #18
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"Don't let the comments of a couple of "plants" from the other side convince you to leave."

Oh, for pete's sake!! Plants? This kind of chronic stress and being beaten down takes a terrible toll on a person, physically and emotionally. That's what we're saying.

I had promised myself I wouldn't even read this stuff anymore.
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:18 PM   #19
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Sad indeed....

While this episode is indeed sad, it does highlight why many of us would like to form a new club.

A new club could be constructed such that the members have control over the organization and the directors/officers are merely the overseers who implement that which the members put forward. Setting this up is NOT difficult!

Of course this means that this new organization would be structured in a manner that does not resemble the WBCCI in any way, shape, or form.

Perhaps it is time to devote some additional energy to the http://www.airforums.com/forums/f290...lub-58427.html thread.

While it is indeed sad that the WBCCI is as myopic as it appears to be, the email presented in this thread should remove all doubt about the direction that the WBCCI leadership is putting forward.

While those who have been working so hard for so many years to bring change to the WBCCI are to be commended it should, at this time, be very obvious that change is NOT something the WBCCI is interested in at all.

Jim
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Old 11-24-2009, 07:00 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by extiger View Post
Other organizations also are experiencing internal friction:
Shriners on both sides of lawsuit

Two members of local temple sue 5 officers
alleging intentional infliction of emotional distress, defamation, violation of due process, breach of fiduciary duty, conspiracy and other charges.
Hey Leo, sounds very similar, call their lawyer!
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Old 11-24-2009, 07:11 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by doug&maggie View Post
Exactly. Leo G. should get the hell out of there.
You don't know Leo, he's a pitbull, he intends to fight hard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rideair View Post
Just because someone is pointing out there are problems, should not mean they are run out of the club for doing so. Leo has offered good ideas, offered to help in many ways and has nothing but the “LONGTERM” future of the club as the cornerstone of his concerns.
Paul you are correct, how do you think he should proceed?

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If it gets to the point of going to court my dues will be better spent in your defense than supporting a group that won't let others in their sandbox.
If?

I think it's a given if he can afford it?


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those officers are the very ones that use the funds to cover their travels are they not?

How can they be the least bit objective about Leo's complaints of misusing the general fund.
Great point, they're in their own world, but I know somebody that thought all these folks have a link to this thread.

Too bad none have the spine to comment!
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Old 11-24-2009, 07:25 PM   #22
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Lightbulb Let's talk money

Club financial losses $25,000.00 in 2008, and with a $44,000.00 operational loss in 2009. They passed a 2010 budget deficit of $81,000.00.


Our leaders mismanaged the WBCCI's International Rally, which has a projected to loose between $40,000.00 and $60,000.00 from additional membership funds.


But they have received 125,000 dollars in personal travel reimbursements, enabling their ability to travel coast to coast, all across North America, for their pleasure.


Maybe they can get advise from Bernie Madoff...........oh he's in jail
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Old 11-24-2009, 07:43 PM   #23
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Smile

It is truly a sorry day when the International leadership would rather rule with dishonor instead of operating the club to the benefit of the membership.

It is a sorry day when a member who speaks out and renders his opinion is attacked in order to shut him up.

Well, it is understood that a new club / association is on the way that treats its members with honor and is set up to eliminate elite groups who are only interested in themselves.

A new club fun for the people and by the people and is oriented towards having fun; in camping and adventure; and in fellowship.
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Old 11-24-2009, 10:15 PM   #24
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Go Leo Go!

Here, Here Paul! I've got money saying they are already saying that around the campfire in the sky... I agree with all what Leo stands for... Leo - stand your ground - I'm with ya! This grievance stuff is a bunch of crap! - it's all childish in my eyes.
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:03 PM   #25
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I had the great pleasure of meeting PeeWee at the Wilds of Ohio Rally. A true gentleman. Seeing that his mother basically started WBCCI he's naturally decided to try to bring some of the history back to the forefront, and he's personally asked me and others to maintain a standard of civility. I shall attempt to adhere to that standard and goal.

I don't see any point in bashing, especially when the facts speak for themselves. Pouring lemonade over someone's head is an act that might be understandable in a 7 year old, an "adult" who does it has either committed assault or has Alzheimers. Filing grievances against Leo is a red herring - drawing attention away from the financial irresponsibility of the IBC who are running the club into ever ever increasing deficits.

Leo has bad manners? Really? Is Leo putting in vouchers for $125K for travel expenses, or mis-managing the budget of the club to the tune of an $81K deficit? It seems that perhaps it's a huge crime in the WBCCI to say "the king has no clothes on" and that's what Leo has been trying to do.

I'm going to support the good people in the WDCU and when the IBC puts the club into bankruptcy, I'll help fiscally moral people whose whole focus won't be raiding the treasury for their personal gain build a new club.

Paula
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:50 PM   #26
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No Worries...

Actually, Leo should have nothing to worry about... In my case, when I got my "Timmy Butterball" letter, the Ethics and Grievance Committee dismissed it as "a private matter concerning legal behavior" (even though it was not as no legal action was filed at all). In other words, sending an email message, no matter how offensive doesn't concern the EGC as it is just a personal issue.
However, should the EGC find otherwise, it would likely immediately find itself and WBCCI in court for a grossly unbalanced application of the rules it is supposed to maintain...
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:53 PM   #27
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Actually, Leo should have nothing to worry about... In my case, when I got my "Timmy Butterball" letter, the Ethics and Grievance Committee dismissed it as "a private matter concerning legal behavior" (even though it was not as no legal action was filed at all). In other words, sending an email message, no matter how offensive doesn't concern the EGC as it is just a personal issue.
However, should the EGC find otherwise, it would likely immediately find itself and WBCCI in court for a grossly unbalanced application of the rules it is supposed to maintain...
Tim,

Wasn't Bob Thompson suspended as a result of his email?

Bill
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Old 11-25-2009, 05:24 AM   #28
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No data to prove it...

but I bet you "Grievance People" are "Sue Happy People" too. I wonder, wonder, wonder, wonder who - who wrote the book of love?
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