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Old 07-21-2009, 11:28 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
Don't assume that AT ALL!


It did these grievances without any regard for the good of the club or its members he did it IMO to further his used Airstream biz and any other self serving interests.
I will assume that until shown otherwise. I don't want to leap to a negative about a fellow club member.

I do admit that if these grievances were filed it does put Greg in an unfavorable light.
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Old 07-21-2009, 03:41 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Goin camping View Post

I do admit that if these grievances were filed it does put Greg in an unfavorable light.
There is no IF, they were filed
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Old 07-21-2009, 05:51 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
There is no IF, they were filed
Thats pretty darn petty reason to file. IMO.
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Old 07-21-2009, 09:20 PM   #74
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Mr. GG, after reading through al of the postings, I have come to the opinion that your so called grievances are pure bunk; are a miss use of the Wbcci Constitution and By-Laws; that they were improperly submitted, ie: fail to name the place where such incidents occured - the internet is NOT a place,, it is ciberspace and covers the whole world.

It is also my opinion that the so called grievances apppear to have been filed for personal gain and to tarnish the rep of individuals with whom you disagree with.

In view of the above, you may be assured that I will never, never ever buy anything from your business. No trailers, No parts, not even a dirink of water.

Bob T
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Old 07-21-2009, 09:27 PM   #75
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It is too bad his free ads appear on the WBCCI forums (operated by him) and it gives the appearance that WBCCI endorses his business. In my opinion, WBCCI management should do something about that.
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Old 07-26-2009, 03:01 PM   #76
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I am attempting to distill this down. So this grievance comes down to three people publicly said the new WBCCI is crap and the guy responsible was unhappy about that. Is that right?

Well I too think the new forum is crap. There I said it publicly. My member number is #7183 please feel free to file one against me too.
It is worse than crap. It's a thinly vailed effort to rip off the WBCCI using it's "reputation" or what's left of it, to sell his stuff.

How can so many stupid people get into positions to make important decisions. I think the leadership has a secret agenda of finishing off the club and dividing up the money.
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Old 07-27-2009, 06:24 AM   #77
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I think it's time to focus on what the club is for-take a breath, go to to Pee-Wee's latest thread at the WBCCI come back and re-think think this issue.

In the big picture it really doesn't mean much. You give it more power and attention than it deserves.

Believe me I am not naive-I've had my "moments" being chewed up and spit out in the club as President, & volunteer for change.

I've matured since then

RG
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:20 AM   #78
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If I had known

I usually avoid the long sob story WBCCI diatribes...like the one that started this thread. This AM I took the time to look at it and was suprised what I learned about the other Vintage site...newly formed. I thought it would be great to sign up....and I did. I did think it was peculiar that the Classifieds were all form one Vendor...one I would never have any dealing with. Now that I know that Vendor is also running the Site....I'm outa there. Won't have anything to do with it.
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Old 07-29-2009, 06:29 PM   #79
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Good move Melody.

Ok, got a question, Thee Wbcci Constitution and By-Laws covering grievances require that the person complaining state the location of the "incident"??

Saying it occured on the internet is not valid assd the internew is the world wide web (www) and covers the entire world. Can any one narrow it down to a city?? Don'T think so!

Thus the person submitting the complaint has NOT met the requirements of the Article concerning filing of grievances.

So, Mr IP and the E&G committee should do the same. Time for the EC to demonstrate some common sense and move on.

Everyone already knows the grievances were a blyant attempt to make Leo and the others look bad. well, it appears that all are behind Leo, Tim and our favorite young lady from up North (Yankee Cuntry) 100%

Wake up EC7 dissmiss the bogus complaints and turn your efforts to the real problems in the club, that of red deficits and the overpriced upcoming International Rally.
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Old 07-30-2009, 12:39 AM   #80
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Tsk, tsk. Much Ado About Nothing! Only this farce isn't a romantic comedy or of the same high caliber as the other play of its name. Still, this writer of windy grievances just might want to try his hand at even more story telling. He has such a good imagination and obviously encounters no shortage of words to which to satiate and to express himself in distribution to others.

If you are going to "tell on people" for their opinion, you might as well have mine too. The new "original" Airstream forum is hardly original but a carbon copy of the existing Airforums without the activity and without the members. And just where are the "real" archives from this second *P O O F * and the slate is clean again for you to manage and control your particular brand of communication and censorship. Not exactly a class act guys! Oh well. No one actually expected it was going to be, if that is any consolation to you.

Now back to the show...
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Old 09-12-2009, 01:28 AM   #81
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Everybody,

Thanks for the show of support over the last few weeks. The grievances against Kimber and I have been dismissed and the issue closed.

In the letter we received, the following statement was included:
Quote:
The case appears to be a conflict between potential website vendors /webmasters: Mr.Gibson for the new WBCCI forum and Mr. Kendziorski, Vintage Webmaster ,with each of them interested in being the Webmaster for the new WBCCI Forum.
I would like to state publicly and for the record that I have had no interest in being the webmaster for the new forums. Rather, What I have wanted to to show that the current situation of hosting the new forums is not in the best interest of the WBCCI, in fact it is a violation of the 501(c)3 the WBCCI operates under. That is a separate issue being worked on now as we speak.

What I wanted to do is give the WBCCI and its membership an option to having a commercial used Airstream trailer dealer host the new forums. I wanted an option for the membership to the $29 ad sales and a site that is peppered with syndicated ads and listings for trailers from people who aren't even members of WBCCI. Members of the WBCCI shouldn't be forced to pay a fee to another member just to list their personal trailer for sale - that is just wrong.

What I wanted to offer WBCCI is a better solution. For that effort I was faced with a grievance. The offer I was making was a domain name - wbcciforums.org, server space, software, an archive of the old forums plus the infrastructure to run and manage those forums - it was never my desire to be the webmaster but rather hand these gifts over to the WBCCI without compensation or reward of any sort. All WBCCI had to do was take ownership of that domain name and infrastructure and they would have had a forums free of ads and the need to pay a fee just to list a trailer for sale.

WBCCI sent me a cease and desist order for putting that domain name together and setting up a forums as a demo that it could be done for free. I complied with that order and shut down the site without question. That is why it is no longer in service. It is not a victory for others as they might feel, but just complying with the wishes of WBCCI.

The grievance against my wife and I have been dismissed, but I will not just dismiss the notion that the members of WBCCI have a better option, one which does not allow a single member to profit at the expense of the WBCCI and its members through the use of banner ads and pay for listing services that violate the WBCCI non-profit status.

Grievances can be filed for true matters of personal conflict but they can also be used as a form of intimidation. I believe the grievance against my wife and I was a form of intimidation. Especially the grievance against my wife. She has been a most positive contributer to the WBCCI and the VAC. She did nothing in this matter except put her name on a letter. That is not the only form of intimidation I feel my wife and I have received since this issue began. We have received email messages from people hiding behind Latvian proxy servers to conceal their true identity (I am happy to provide evidence of this for anybody who is interested in seeing - PM me. ). In these messages is the foulest of language and threats over this issue. We do not deserve that but I am guessing that someone is protecting their best interests in sending nasty email messages.

My point is that people who use intimidation as a means of dealing with a situation are hiding behind fear. I have nothing to hide and my offer was made without strings or compensation of any sort. It was made with the best interest of WBCCI in mind, not my own personal benefit or compensation. A truly gift free to WBCCI and its members. One which does not apply a surcharge to the membership for the service.

What will happen with the new forums over time remains to be seen. It seems to languish with mostly the moderators and the as yet to be identified "Cortez" as the main posters to the site.

For me, Airforums and the SaveWally site will always be an open venue to the censorship, Pleasantville moderation and novella like "Terms of Service" that benefit one single vendor (the one actually providing the forums) over any other. I'll take Airforums over the the other forums as long as people are hiding behind identities and moderating right out of existence any post with a contradictory opinion.
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Old 09-12-2009, 05:12 AM   #82
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Good news!

Not so good for Leo!

"The Ethics and Grievance Committee in reviewing the Grievance brought by Gregory Gibson, on June 24, 2009 find Mr. G arvey guilty of violating the WBCCI Code of Ethics as outlined
above and recommend probation for two years (WBCCI Blue Book, Bylaws, Section 2G,
page 12). If an additional violation of the Code of Ethics occurs during this time period
(with or without a grievance being filed) Mr
. Garvey warrants suspension or expulsion from
WBCCI membership.
The Executive Committee, meeting in a special session on August 17,2009, followed Blue
Book Article V, Disciplinary Procedures, Section 2, By-Laws, H.: "The Executive
Committee promptly shall review the findings and the recommendations of the Ethics and
Grievance Committee, and by resolution, shall affirm, overrule or modify the said
recommendations."
The Executive Committee by called vote concurred with the Ethics and
Grievance Committee's recommendations with the exception that the probation period be
reduced to one year from receipt of this letter. Therefore, this grievance is hereby closed
unless further violations occur as described in the recommendations paragraph above.

Tom Collier
WBCCI International President (2009-2010)
"

They apparently followed Blue book Article V rather than Roberts Rules. in so doing did the EGC fail to grant Leo a 'hearing' which according to RRONR says "for actions that take place outside of an official meeting is a trial in front of the membership."

Tom Collier also accused Leo of wanting to be the webmaster
"Mr.
Gibson for the new WBCCI forum, and Mr. Garvey,
Webmaster for SaveWally, with each of them interested in being the Webmaster for the new
WBCCl Forum."

This however is the is the part of the finding which needs to be addressed.

If an additional violation of the Code of Ethics occurs during this time period
(with or without a grievance being filed) Mr. Garvey warrants suspension or expulsion from
WBCCI membership

So now Leo can just be booted out without any chance to defend himself..................

I don't think Leo will be muzzled for one year

Do you folks think Leo is entitled to a hearing having witnesses testify under oath as stated in Roberts Rules.

It was suggested by T. Collier in Leo's decision

"conflict cannot be evaluated unless these parties are under oath where the truth can be determined."

So no hearing - No oath - No truth

Is this the way the WBCCI should be administered?


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Old 09-12-2009, 06:15 AM   #83
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I don't know Greg or anything about him so I assume he is nice and generous guy who is donating his time, money, bandwidth etc.
Would you still "assume" the same if you were aware that using his position as "super administrator", he moderates away any comments that he disagrees with?

Seems to be more of a Dictator than a Philathropist.
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Old 09-12-2009, 06:25 AM   #84
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Confused!

Well as a new proud owner of an Airstream, I was all ready to join WBCCI and become part of the family. After reading through this thread I'm more confused than ever. I thought camping was about enjoying our leisure, other campers, and our Airstreams. Maybe I'll just boondock and the problem will be solved!

Bob
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